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That's only if it actually has more mass. The difference in the size of the BCG between an Ar15 and an Ar10 isn't that much that I would expect much more recoil. I mean, maybe a little bit but not likely to be significant based on the bcg alone.

 

Now I think they could offset that by just making it loud as hell like the SVD or L85. Those might not actually kick much but the sound they make is enough to make up for it.

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Hmmm, I always thought that the bolt on an SR25 would be noticeably larger than an M4 much like the HK416 to the 417. I had the notion that since the carrier is larger and wider that the buffer tube would also be larger. Along with have to cope with a larger bolt, a heavy recoil buffer would be introduced not to mention a larger and thicker recoil spring, such that it had a greater spring constant for a slightly longer travel. Then its force would be greater according to Hooke's Law.

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The SR25 and 417 are based on the AR10 so they have similar BCGs to it. Here you can see the difference between the 10 and 15 BCGs:

 

http://weaponsgradecode.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/AR15_vs_AR10_bolt_carriers.jpg

 

Edit: Not all 308 BCGs are solid either, some have the cutout like a 5.56 one: http://308ar.com/build1/DPMS_308_BCG.jpg

 

As you can see there isnt much difference in width, its just slightly longer since the receiver is longer. I dont think the difference in recoil would be too significant on a GBB between those two. Especially since the gun would be heavier which would negate a lot of the increased weight of the bolt. But either way I wouldn't care much. recoil is nice, but for me the real reason I like GBBs is the sound. A good loud report from the shot is what I enjoy the most about them, since no GBB is likely to kick much more then a .22LR anyway.

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Its entirely possible that there was. Theres just more to it then mass of the bolt alone. the 417 could have been using much more gas per shot for example, and the bolt carrier could have therefor been moving at a higher velocity. that would cause an increase in recoil.

 

To use the SVD as an example again, the bolt on the SVD is actually very light, yet it has a very respectable recoil (And as mentioned, incredible sound), mostly due to the speed the bolt is slamming into the back of the receiver at.

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Yeah I'm pretty leery of VFC myself these days. While I did finally get my Mp5 to perform really well consistently, it was such a hassle to do that I would be very unlikely to buy another VFC GBB gun. (Except for maybe another Mp5 since now I know how to set one up to work).

 

 

Back to WE though, its too bad they havent said anything else about the P38 and makarov. Those were the two that seemed to cause the most stir and yet they choose not to even mention them. I mean, the M84 is nice, and Im going to buy one, but thats mostly just because I like .380s. Once WE release something you cant really call it "different" anymore though, since they become pretty much common as dirt.

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Its entirely possible that there was. Theres just more to it then mass of the bolt alone. the 417 could have been using much more gas per shot for example, and the bolt carrier could have therefor been moving at a higher velocity. that would cause an increase in recoil.

 

To use the SVD as an example again, the bolt on the SVD is actually very light, yet it has a very respectable recoil (And as mentioned, incredible sound), mostly due to the speed the bolt is slamming into the back of the receiver at.

So the real key to make a larger bolt move with more velocity. That would generate atleast twice the amount of recoil compared to WE 5.56s. And it agrees with physics, so now all WE has to do is make bolts move at greater speed. My guess is that WE either uses a larger nozzle or they can keep the release valve out a hair longer.

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See while thats all well and good, I dont think I would want the bolt moving at twice the speed of a WE M4. WE's arent quite the paragon of reliability and I really wouldnt want to subject their M4 GBB system (And it would just be an M4 trigger pack in a different receiver) to even more stress then it usually takes.

 

Sounds like a great way to make an unreliable, breaky gun. remember we're still talking about WE here. Even if the gun works really good, its still made out of cheese.

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However if the design is heavier then the felt recoil of the part will not be as much.

 

Lets use rough measurements but lets say the gun weighs 110% that of the M4 and each shots uses 110% of gas to fire the bolt, which is the same weight.

 

It would probably feel lighter overall as you have more weight that isn't in the bolt operation but in the gun even with it going back faster. You might even have to have a bolt that weighs 125% as much with 125% of gas going to it before you got a consistently higher kick.

 

And then of course you have how inline the bolt is with the shooters shoulder, something the M4 in particular has going for it given that it is part of the stock or at least housed in the stock. This can affect felt recoil.

 

There is a lot of factors and just flat making it a 7.62mm gun isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

'FireKnife'

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To achieve twice the speed, you wouldn't have to move twice as fast. I meant that the bolt could move at about 25% faster in addition to added mass. Since the velocity is squared you wouldn't have to double it's velocity to get twice the amount of recoil. And if WE could just use steel for their receivers, trigger group, and buffer tube it'd be okay. The steel on their AK74 and MP5 seem fairly decent enough.

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However if the design is heavier then the felt recoil of the part will not be as much.

 

Lets use rough measurements but lets say the gun weighs 110% that of the M4 and each shots uses 110% of gas to fire the bolt, which is the same weight.

 

It would probably feel lighter overall as you have more weight that isn't in the bolt operation but in the gun even with it going back faster. You might even have to have a bolt that weighs 125% as much with 125% of gas going to it before you got a consistently higher kick.

 

And then of course you have how inline the bolt is with the shooters shoulder, something the M4 in particular has going for it given that it is part of the stock or at least housed in the stock. This can affect felt recoil.

 

There is a lot of factors and just flat making it a 7.62mm gun isn't going to make that much of a difference.

 

'FireKnife'

 

I see your point, but I didn't mean just make a larger gun. Of course there would need to be redesigning to achieve the desired result. 

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I do see what you mean but to simply factor in 'heavier bolt and more gas in a bigger gun' isn't really going to make it.

 

While it would be nice to have heavy recoil (one of the reasons to use gas outside of instant trigger response) I don't think it will be that much better in the 7.62 guns without perhaps internals going pop as Brigg mentioned or ammo capaity being cut down to 20 which in my opinion is far, far too low.

 

'FireKnife'

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Well, we can always find ways to upgrade our guns for durability. Unless WE would like to do that for us with steel internals. Don't most 7.62 rifles have a 20 round capacity anyways? Good for realism but I can see where it'll hurt in the skirmishability department. What I hope for is that WE can produce new guns that haven't entered the GBB market yet or make guns that are too few in the market at the moment, such as the VZ61, UMP so there's an alternative to VFC, etc., along with handing us more recoil. And I would pray that WE would improve in their internal quality with every new release.

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I personally instantly say no to a gun that is gas and limited to only real-cap mags, but that is because I use them to play with in a skirmish and already have 20+ shots in my 1911 so why can't I have the option of 50-60 shots in my primary?

 

It would be nice to see new models but sadly that isn't up to us as much as the Asian market and what they want. If it was up to Brits we would all have Hi-Powers by now. Just lucky for Americans that there culture has heavily influenced airsoft and as such many US or used by the US guns have come to the fore (that might explain the lack of Makarov, even the East must want one by now too).

 

As for me I am just happy that two guns (which have been made before but where expensive or made of soggy fish) I want are finally realised, even if it is by a manufacturer I know class as middle of the road, not fantastic but they make nice holster fillers and plinkers for a price.

 

'FireKnife'

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I get the realism bit but I don't get the lack of options some places seem to have gone with.

 

I mean surely they could make a system that provides the option of either 30rd mags and a harsh kick or 50-60rd mags that give a stable kick but go to the last shot? A kind of best of both worlds system that works on gas direction using simply different valves?

 

But saying that it would be in M4 form so I probably wouldn't buy it anyway :P.

 

'FireKnife'

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It's only their stanags that are limited to real caps. Their M14 can hold 30, SVD at 20, MP5s and AKs at 45. I load real capacities myself even on handguns, but that's my prerogative and it's great that others can do otherwise should they choose to. But what I can't understand is why WE won't make more AKs or at least have a long barrel go with the folding stock receiver so I can build myself a 100 series without having to get parts from both and a third for the rest of the furniture.

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I've got a WE stanag mag that needs to be modded, I'll post pictures once I do (before and after shots). Yeah spot on, the MP5 has real cap mags and also larger cap mags, WE does like to make large capacity mags (they've even made one for the M4 series).

 

Wonder how much that Scar-H will be in the UK. *fruitcage*s sake. I'm trying to whittle my (small) collection down and already am thinking about buying more GBB's. Bloody hell.

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Supposedly the VFC HK417 has the hardest GBBR kick.

 

I've shot one and wasn't that impressed. Bearing in mind buyer's justification and all that, I think my rather elderly Inokatsu kicks harder, although admittedly that is sprung so strongly that it's virtually unusable in the winter without CO2.

 

But what I can't understand is why WE won't make more AKs or at least have a long barrel go with the folding stock receiver so I can build myself a 100 series without having to get parts from both and a third for the rest of the furniture.

 

I got the impression that WE's AK line wasn't very popular. The SVD was something of a sales failure too and that's why it's now discontinued, unless I've been misinformed.

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I've shot one and wasn't that impressed. Bearing in mind buyer's justification and all that, I think my rather elderly Inokatsu kicks harder, although admittedly that is sprung so strongly that it's virtually unusable in the winter without CO2.

Just going on what nugent said.  I'm sure that's what he said anyway.  Unless it was hardest kicking out of VFC's lineup.  He has a lot of GBBRs so I'm inclined to trust his judgment.  Still, recoil is somewhat subjective I suppose.

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