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VFC HK417 GBBR

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I'm afraid that's probably not so easy.  You can get other .308 AR15 charging handles for under $50 but HK417 has a proprietary handle. VFC might have replicated this.

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I bought one, finally!

 

Its good, but has a number of issues.  One issue out of the box was my upper receiver would not separate from my lower, turns out the rear tab was half a mil too wide, so the friction prevented the upper receiver from opening.  It also had issues with the nozzle return spring not returning the nozzle back into the BCG and also a slightly leaky magazine.

 

FPS was rated at around 360fps on 0.2g, unmodified, on the stock 420mm 12" barrel and the stock hop rubber (flat hop version).  Inaccurate as hell.

 

Modified the float valve position slightly, up to 410fps on 0.25g, on stock barrel stock hop rubber.

Modified the hop rubber to remove the constrictor narrowing, stock barrel on 420fps on 0.25gs.

Modified the valve position slightly more, up to 430fps on 0.25g, stock barrel and modified hop rubber.

 

Issue now is over hopping, and strange fliers.  It shoots straight 50% of the time, but hops high on 0.25gs.  50% are left spinning fliers.

 

Will change hop up rubber but I have a feeling its due a number of factors with the hop window being too low, the hop nub isn't applying equal pressure to the rubber, and the rubber not so flat, which is causing the issue.

 

Overall, just for the recoil it was worth the buy.  Now its a slow iterative process to debug the accuracy issues.  I will need an extra 5-6 mags to be combat useable.

 

 

Using a VFC M4 10", WE SCAR L 10" and WE AK PMC for comparison:

 

Both VFC M4 and WE SCAR has a VSR type hop up (Maple leaf flat) both with Madbull AEG barrels modded to fit.  WE AK PMC uses a Maple Leaf but a stock AK barrel.

 

All 3 generate comparable groupings of 2-3cm at 12m with 0.25gs.  

 

Performance: 

VFC M4: Modified floating valve position no rocket valve, 390fps on 0.25gs (Stock with a 10" barrel 360fps on 0.2g).  Accurate target distance ~60m+

WE SCAR: Modified floating valve position no rocket valve, 370fps on 0.25gs (Stock with a 10" barrel is 360fps on 0.2g).  Accurate target distance ~60m

WE AK PMC: Modified floating valve position no rocket valve, 440fps on 0.25gs (Stock with a 16" barrel is 390fps on 0.2g).  Accurate target distance ~70m+

 

So after modification the VFC HK417 is comparable to a modified VFC/WE platform.

 

 

The only downsides I foresee with the HK417 is the weight and the magazines fitment in pouches.  Even though it is shorter than the AK but not by much.

 

VFC M4 is  3.1kg with magnifier and red dot, steel Govt profile barrel

WE AK PMC is only 3.7kg with a AKM wood kit, stock aluminium barrel.

VFC HK417 is 3.7kg without optics. stock outer barrel.

Edited by 3vi1-D4n

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Congratulations on your new purchase.

 

Do you have the newer version hop up bucking inside? The older one has the tab on the side which slots into the recess cut in the hop up chamber. (Newer version does not and uses a half moon shape bb contact point instead of the rabbit tooth type)

 

If it's the old one, then it should be discarded. I was getting bad overhop on varying weight bbs, even with the hop off. Yep inaccurate as hell!

The new version seems to stabilise the bb to shoot straighter and flatter.

 

Mine also was really tight to separate in the beginning. But wore in eventually. Mine had small rubber discs stuck on the underside of the upper, either side of the front pin lug. Guess it was to keep the receiver from wobbling.

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I have switched the o-ring on my nozzle for a slightly thicker one and gained about 20 FPS. The default VFC rubbers suck in my experience you are better off with a new one. The inner barrel is actually 300mm long(12 inches). The gun has bolt bounce issues which might effect proper feeding of BBs(I also have random fliers). Watch for the chargind handle, mine had it's pin come off two time before I loctited it from the recoil.

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Yes, sorry its 300mm, which is good given the power output out of a short barrel.

 

I have the new version hop rubber.  It shoots flat and straight 50% of the time, and 50%, sporadically.  I am going to change out to a maple leaf 70% to see if that would help.  I use .25g as standard, and I tune my GBBRs on 0.25gs, so to keep consistent ammo between my various platforms.  I do know GBBRs have a tedency to be set with an over-hop by default because that prevents BBs from being forced through the barrel from the bolt momentum of the BCG, hence they favour heavy ammo which in turn minimises the occurrence of fliers by hiding secondary hop effects.  

 

On the HK417 high default hop up is due to the hop arm/nub/adjustor.  Even on the minimum setting the hop adjustor pushes against the hop arm, as the outer barrel doesn't allow the hop adjustor to go "forward" which means hop will always be "on".  I tried to force it forward and wore out the grub screw threads.  Bending the hop arm upwards fixed the overhop issue. But now the issue is the sporadic in/consistency, which as I said, could be due to the hop rubber being inconsistently made, hop window on the inner barrel being too low/wide, or light BBs on a flat hop.

 

After I filed the rear receiver tabs, it opens up smoothly but yes there is a slight up and down wobble, which is really hardly anything. Gluing a rubber piece on the lower will fix that.  It already has 2 rubber discs at the front of the receiver to minimise this.

 

I have locktited the pins now on the selector and cocking handle.  Will see how long that lasts.

 

Thats it for now.  I will install a maple leaf rubber soon and test, and/or a new inner barrel.  If I want more kick I will probably bore out the blowback stem to allow more gas to hit the rear of the BCG but I suspect they have purposefully narrowed the gas flow either to allow the float valve to close earlier OR to minimise the recoil, which is brutal enough stock.

 

If the accuracy doesn't pan out then I will stick with my VFC M4, which is a shame as the recoil doesn't really compare to the 417.

 

LOL what can I say, I have an SBR on an HBAR using a triple tap break and that has as much recoil as my VFC M4 if not less. :P

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Stay clear of the maple leaf rubbers mate. They're great generally of course but due to the fact that they are about 1mm shorter than the vfc it gives a *suitcase* air seal. I lost 100fps and had a variation of +/- 50fps.

 

Apparently a plus work well but my 2nd gen vfc rubber works well for me now after swapping to it so I have no need to change.

Edited by christhesecond

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Stay clear of the maple leaf rubbers mate. They're great generally of course but due to the fact that they are about 1mm shorter than the vfc it gives a *suitcase* air seal. I lost 100fps and had a variation of +/- 50fps.

 

Apparently a plus work well but my 2nd gen vfc rubber works well for me now after swapping to it so I have no need to change.

 

Are you sure you don't have some other problem going on?  I have run a 75 degree ML bucking since I got the 417 and I was shooting in the high 300's on the standard VFC gas release valves.  100FPS loss is quite significant...

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A guy I lent it to double fed and jammed some BBs in the nozzle, and vented all the gas.  Now my magazine leaks gas from the base.  Any ideas why?

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Found the issue, the gas seal rubber at the base of the magazine wasn't pressed in tight enough by the 4 screws at the base of the mag and hence when venting the rubber shrunk inside the magazine.  I stretched and heated it up and mounted it back into the magazine, it seems to be functioning fine.

 

I have now swapped to a ML 70 shore bucking, 10fps drop from using VFC bucking, which is at 420fps at 0.25g at 12*C, stock magazine valve.

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All be aware to make sure your nozzle guide/bolt lock interface isn't developing marring and wearing causing burrs and protrusions. On mine it cut a jagged edge on the inside of the upper making the carrier have an uneven travel causing double feeds and failures.

 

My 417 is f'd up, so keep an eye out fellas. I've since filed the guide smooth and awaiting to hear back from VFC on a new upper.

 

F0C0EC2D-7AA2-469E-81BA-796322599DEF_zps

 

266E3793-552B-4560-9F3C-0DCE0BA24B1A_zps

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZIhyD-eeNk

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Yeah mine has a few scratches in the upper, I have filed away at the steel insert to prevent it from scratching the upper.  Will see what happens.

 

And yeah I got rid of the VFC stock barrel, and replaced with a falcon non-rifled precision barrel, and noticed the fliers and inconsistency is virtually eliminated.  I am throwing out the VFC barrel, as it is bore'ed with a warp  I am surprised VFC allowed this in their QC.  Or perhaps they want us to spend money on their precision barrels...

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All be aware to make sure your nozzle guide/bolt lock interface isn't developing marring and wearing causing burrs and protrusions. On mine it cut a jagged edge on the inside of the upper making the carrier have an uneven travel causing double feeds and failures.

 

My 417 is f'd up, so keep an eye out fellas. I've since filed the guide smooth and awaiting to hear back from VFC on a new upper.

 

F0C0EC2D-7AA2-469E-81BA-796322599DEF_zps

 

266E3793-552B-4560-9F3C-0DCE0BA24B1A_zps

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZIhyD-eeNk

 

I saw that exact deformation when I took apart my nozzle to do a comparison between gen 1 and gen 2 nozzles.  Mine wasn't nearly as deformed as yours but left unattended would certainly get that way...

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Certainly something to keep an eye on for sure. Replacement upper has run me $85, could have done with that going on other things but I can't wait to get the rifle working again.

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Afternoon all.

 

So I went and bought myself a 417. Now I've got to get it working spot on. I've read through this thread a few times and have so far listed a few things I won't/need.

 

1. 16" recon kit.

2. 410mm tight bore barrel. Any preference on make? I'm looking at a 6.03.

3. 75degree maple leaf bucking.

4. A plus valves. Seen that they drop power down quite a bit. I'm not bothered on the mpg as I will bomb up and gas every time and since I'm building this in to a DMR I'm steering away from these. What's other people real world views?

5. The newer NPAS nozzle.

 

Anything else that I have missed? Hop up rubber, different O rings?

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1. Well thats for you to decide it's only for the looks really you can get great range from a 300mm barrel too.

2. AngryGun makes 6.03 steel barrels for WE gbbrs which fit the VFC ones also(altough they have a different ho-up window which is not so open as the VFC, still it works fine for me)

3. I have a 50 degree one in mine good accuarcy, tough I have fliers sometimes Im not if it is the rubber that's causing it

4. I want to get them too but they are out of stock everywhere. However I heard that some people gained FPS(up to 50 more) instead of losing some.

5. Check your nozzle maybe your gun already came with the newer adjustable one(you should see a thread if you look inside the gas route of the nozzle)

 

I changed my nozzle O-ring to a new, slightly thicker one on my new nozzle after the first one died pretty soon. I gained about 20 FPS.

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1. Well thats for you to decide it's only for the looks really you can get great range from a 300mm barrel too.

2. AngryGun makes 6.03 steel barrels for WE gbbrs which fit the VFC ones also(altough they have a different ho-up window which is not so open as the VFC, still it works fine for me)

3. I have a 50 degree one in mine good accuarcy, tough I have fliers sometimes Im not if it is the rubber that's causing it

4. I want to get them too but they are out of stock everywhere. However I heard that some people gained FPS(up to 50 more) instead of losing some.

5. Check your nozzle maybe your gun already came with the newer adjustable one(you should see a thread if you look inside the gas route of the nozzle)

 

I changed my nozzle O-ring to a new, slightly thicker one on my new nozzle after the first one died pretty soon. I gained about 20 FPS.

 

Not sure how number 1 slipped in as a question. As you said it was totally up to me and just added so people knew why I was going for the 410mm barrel. Pain in the a$$ to find one of the 16" front end's in stock, tried bunny workshop, scopeandlaser and wgc who all said they had it in stock. Once I ordered I then got an email saying they didn't have it. In the end I paid a little bit more but got some great service from airsoft area in Switzerland.

 

In the end due to time constraints I went for a RA Tech 6.01 barrel 410mm inner. Also picked up a Maple Leaf Monster 75degree hop. Couldn't work out the difference between ML monster and diamond. So since i've been living off cans of monster energy since the birth of my little lad a week or so ago my logic said monster.

 

Well if I find any in stock I will post a link on here so others can order.

 

Will check the nozzle. The rifle has been sat in my local shop since last year so not holding out much hope for the npas system. Will change out the O-Ring and see what results I find.

Cheers for your help :)

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Seems like its been a while here since anyone posted but I'll throw this out there..

Bada bing did replacing that part you mentioned above sort your accuracy issure? just picked one of these up and its inconsistant as hell even after a hop rubber change

Edited by m4matty

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I cannot tell at the moment as mine still double feeds and gas dumps upon the second shot.

 

Loading one in the chamber along with using the improved VFC bucking and angry gun tight bore sends the bb straight and flat. For inconsistencies I have heard of people using the flat side of the hop adjuster (seesaw thing) and having better shots.

 

Alas with mine after nozzle change, hop up replacement and new upper receiver I'm still no closer to running through a magazine properly. I'll try a new bolt carrier as mine at the moment has some wear. Failing that I'll set fire to it.

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