hudsons89 Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hi, What would you recommend for someone looking to get a two-way radio set for Airsoft. Are there any makes I should avoid, any you'd recommend? Likely price range? Specs I should keep and eye out for? As always thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
Griff762 Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 The BaoFeng range are pretty good and can be picked up for around £30 with shipping, AoD (User on here) knows a lot more than me about them though. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 My entire team kitted itself out two weeks ago with Baofeng BF-888S radios. I think we bought 10 of them at £10 each plus one of the data cables you need to programme them. I have to say, I'm very impressed - I thought they would be awful, but they're actually brilliant. The radio feels solid, it's stupidly simple to use, and has all the functionality you need for airsoft - plus, it includes a headset and PTT (not the highest-end thing I've ever used, but it works fine) and a belt clip which fits MOLLE just fine. I really cannot stress enough how much more realistic airsoft feels with high-quality radio chatter in your ear, and the ability to communicate objectives, movements and other observations quickly and quietly was extremely useful. At that price, you won't spend a better £10-15 in airsoft. Aod on here uses what I think is Baofeng's UV-5R (about twice the price of the BF-888S) which is a much more advanced model. What I would recommend above all is that you establish who you're hoping to use the radio(s) with. The more players you can communicate with, the better, which is what made a team buy such a sensible option - we're all using the same gear, which means we have inherent compatibility and redundancy. Once you know the radios that everybody else uses, and their capabilities, it's much easier to work out what you should be buying. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 I was reading a thread on one of the FB groups that had a lot of information regarding PMR446 frequencies and recommended radio's, I'll see if I can find it again as there was a lot of info in there! Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Hi, What would you recommend for someone looking to get a two-way radio set for Airsoft. Are there any makes I should avoid, any you'd recommend? Likely price range? Specs I should keep and eye out for? As always thanks! If you do go for the Baofeng radios you will have to program them, the Baofeng BF-888S UHF 400-470 MHz radios can be set-up for UK PMR446. There are a bunch of Youtube Video's that show you how to program the PMR446 frequencies. Alternatively you can go for something like the Motorola TLKR T60, you can pick two up for £42 on ebay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360930406287?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 You can also get some really good priced covert heads sets for them :-) I'm looking at getting some radios at present so will keep this thread updated with my progress and any info on programming the Boafeng if I do for them. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Looked into this a bit more as the site I played at the weekend was running "BaoFeng BF-888S" radios and some of the players also used these as well. For you to legally use these radios you must program them to the licence free PMR446 channels and they must transmit no more than 500mW (there is a Youtube video somewhere that shows you how to set this up). The information on the PMR446 channels is as follows: Technical information Analog PMR446 covers band 446.0 - 446.1 MHz and digital dPMR/DMR cover 446.1 - 446.2 MHz; CEPT envisions that the digital band may be extended onto analog band in the future. Radios may now have removable antennae as long as the ERP does not exceed 500mW. Analogue FM Analogue PMR uses eight FM channels separated by 12.5 kHz from each other. Per regulation, maximum power, like FRS, is 500 mW ERP and equipment must be used on a mobile basis. CTCSS is usually used, with more upmarket models also featuring DCS. PMR Channel Frequency (MHz) 1 446.00625 2 446.01875 3 446.03125 4 446.04375 5 446.05625 6 446.06875 7 446.08125 8 446.09375 Digital FDMA Digital dPMR446 uses sixteen digital voice channels separated by 6.25 kHz from each other with 4-Level FSK modulation at 3.6 kbit/s. dPMR446 Channel Frequency (MHz) 1 446.103125 2 446.109375 3 446.115625 4 446.121875 5 446.128125 6 446.134375 7 446.140625 8 446.146875 9 446.153125 10 446.159375 11 446.165625 12 446.171875 13 446.178125 14 446.184375 15 446.190625 16 446.196875 Range The range of PMR446, just like any VHF or UHF radio, is dependent on many factors like environment (in-city range is far less than in an open field), height above surrounding obstructions, and, to a lesser extent, weather conditions. The antenna type and location, transmit power and receive sensitivity also affect range. However with PMR446 most of these variables are fixed at manufacturing to comply with the PMR446 specifications. Most of the time the maximum range that a user in a city can expect is a few hundred metres or less. Range may be many kilometres, for example between hilltops, or only a few hundred metres, if for example a hill or large metal object is in the transmission path between radios. The best known long distance record is 333 mi (535.8 km) from Blyth in the United Kingdom to Almere, Netherlands.[1] This was the result of enhanced propagation conditions, not a line-of-sight signal. Link to post Share on other sites
hudsons89 Posted July 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 This is really useful information. Thanks chaps. Are BaoFeng really worth all the effort? Wouldn't a normal 2-way radio suffice? Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Price wise I would say yes - I watched one go for £12 on fleebay and just seen a pair of them new for £23. I'm just waiting to hear back from someone to see if you can program ALL the 16 FDMA channels into them. The marshes were using channel 9 (as they called it) yesterday. The two guy's on the table next to me also had these radio's and used them for door work at a local club, he purchased 10 of them for around £100 with chargers ect.. Here's a pic from yesterday Headsets are also very cheap at under £5 Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 They include a set of headsets, too. I'd be interested in knowing a full channel selection if you can tell me what they should be; I don't think ours were pre-programmed for FDMA/PMR446 and they presumably should be now we've got them. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 They include a set of headsets, too. I'd be interested in knowing a full channel selection if you can tell me what they should be; I don't think ours were pre-programmed for FDMA/PMR446 and they presumably should be now we've got them. Do you have the USB lead for the radio? If so you can plug it in and download the channel setup, it will look something like this: SOFTWARE INFO With the BAO-888 Programmer you can begin a new “factory fresh” file into which frequencies and option settings are entered. Also you can read from the radio, store these details on your computer and make changes. Then send the new configuration back to the radio. The Radio Programming Software allows you to create and save as many files as you want for your radio. Files can even be shared between users via email or the Internet. Any RT Systems Version 4.50 program can open a file from any other RT Systems Version 4.50 programmer... even from a different radio. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 A couple of good links: https://www.rtsystemsinc.com/Articles.asp?ID=450 http://http://miklor.com/ PLEASE REMEMBER - For you to use these radios in the UK they must be set to low power and not give out more than 500mW / Channel programming must be set to the information in this link: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra357.htm Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Thankyou, that's very helpful. Another teammate does have the USB connector, and I'll probably buy one myself too (does this one look OK?). Is there a step-by-step guide anywhere as to which frequencies would be sensible to use? The handset supports 16 preset channels. From what I can tell, there are 8 analogue PMR frequencies: 446.00625MHz 446.01875MHz 446.03125MHz 446.04375MHz 446.05625MHz 446.06875MHz 446.08125MHz 446.09375MHz I could program the radio to use those, but that would leave me with a further 8 channels on the radio that wouldn't do anything, correct? Can I programme the radio to use the 16 dPMR446 channels instead? Those are: 446.103125MHz 446.109375MHz 446.115625MHz 446.121875MHz 446.128125MHz 446.134375MHz 446.140625MHz 446.146875MHz 446.153125MHz 446.159375MHz 446.165625MHz 446.171875MHz 446.178125MHz 446.184375MHz 446.190625MHz 446.196875MHz That would give me all 16 channels, correct? Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 Ok - I did some reading on this and also spoke to someone I know who has around 40 of the BaoFeng BF-888S radios, apparently you "CANOT" program the BF-888S to work on the "dPMR 446 FREQUENCIES DIGITAL" You can however program all 8 PMR 446 channels (MAIN PMR 446 FREQUENCIES ANALOGUE)and also program 8 sub channels IE; THE UK PMR 446MHz LICENCE FREE FREQUENCIES ONLY ( 446.00625MHz to 446.09375MHz ) CHANNEL No1 to No8 Talk with any other UK 446MHz licence free walkie talkie on the same channel numbers. CHANNEL No9 to No16 On same 8 UK PMR 446MHz licence free frequencies as above, but squelch toned (ctcss) this time so you hear no one else only other than the other walkie purchased with the same (ctcss). Hope that makes sense, I have a pair on order and a USB cable so will be looking at this very soon. I'm going to have a look on the net to see if I can find a screen print of the settings, but so far this is what I have found; Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Why can't the BF-888S use the dPMR frequencies? The 8 PMR channels are already overcrowded. CTCSS is all well and good, but I'm less interested in not hearing other people and more interested in other people not hearing me; with 16 channels to scan the chances of OPFOR stumbling across my team's channel is halved. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Why can't the BF-888S use the dPMR frequencies? The 8 PMR channels are already overcrowded. CTCSS is all well and good, but I'm less interested in not hearing other people and more interested in other people not hearing me; with 16 channels to scan the chances of OPFOR stumbling across my team's channel is halved. I was told you could not use dPMR frequencies with the 888s radios as the software wont let you program it?? Anyway your not limited to the PMR446 - providing you have a licence you could use the other 8 channels for what ever you want! As said I haven't had a chance to play with them yet but as soon as I do I will update this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Ok I just read on a HAM forum that the BF-888s are UHF only and analogue, so this is probably why you cant program dPMR frequencies! Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hi All I managed to get the frequencies correct and now I'm able to talk to a Motorola TLKR T50 that is a PMR446 radio. However, I have to use my channel 9 that is programmed with CTC/DSC DEC 67.0 to talk to the Motorola T50 on its channel 1 (have a look at the screen cap). EDIT!! I managed to set the channels to 0 on the Motorola so there is "NO" CTCSS. I now have two way communications, I would still like to know if I am going to have issues with other radio manufactures or is this common practice? I would think that most (if not all) manufactures let you select no sub channel so you can get comms between two different radio sets on PMR. I think the only way to be 100% is to now get to a game and talk to as many people on different manufacture handsets as possible. The settings bellow will defiantly get comms up on the standard 8 x PMR446 channels if the other user is not on some silly sub channel!! Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Just an update to the above: The windows drivers are a PAIN to get working, if you need any more information I can do but only if you need it (don't want to clutter the thread unless its asked for). Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 BTW the test radios I've been using are Motorola TLKR T50, picture from today :-) (NOTE the CTCSS set to "0" when I was testing Channel 2).. Link to post Share on other sites
Aod Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 What I said to Puresilver a fortnight ago; Radio first because it will be quick; The 888S will come with a load of channels programmed that are in the licenced bands here in the UK, I'd advise you not to transmit on those unless absolutely unavoidable, the potential repercussions can be considerable. Programming the first 8 channels to the 8 PMR channels is a sensible idea, that's what I've done on all the UV-5Rs that I've programmed (about 15 now I think!). As for the last 8 channels, the dPMR446 channels would have been my suggestion. OFCOM has reserved the 446.1-446.2 MHz band for use as the "digital, unlicensed bands", which means for use with digital PMR handsets only, however, because there are only two dPMR handsets available (the Icom ID-51E and the Icom IC-F4029SDR, ~£430 and ~£260 respectively), the number of legitimate users of the dPMR band is very low. Because of this, the "Ham Radio community" has unofficially (and technically in violation of the law) started using the digital bands for analogue transmissions in what they have called the "unofficial CB band". Many people have been using these channels in their chinese radios for a while now, seemingly without any consequences whatsoever. Due to the unlicensed nature of the PMR and dPMR bands in the UK, OFCOM essentially "wash their hands" of any and all complaints of crosstalk, overtalk and other such band interference that PMR and dPMR users may or do experience. I would suggest that you consider which privacy codes to use carefully, given the difficulty of reprogramming the radio in the field. What I did with the UV-5Rs that I've programmed is set a CTCSS tone/code for the PMR channels 2-7 (Channels 1 and 8 are usually left "open" in the Ham community). This allows interoperability with conventional PMR handsets, most of which cannot use the digital privacy codes. To facilitate easy configuration for people with regular radios, a little note showing which PMR channel has which privacy code is usually a good idea. On the other hand, for the dPMR bands, I use a DTCS privacy code on all eight and by preference, usually use channel 6 or 7 as they always seem to be clear. To avoid interfering with any "legitimate" users, I try to spend about 5 minutes listening on the dPMR frequencies at the beginning of the day to see if any of them have digital transmissions taking place on them (you'll know them when you hear them) Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stephen Posted September 3, 2014 Report Share Posted September 3, 2014 I've got a Baofeng UV-5R coming form ebay. After only now reading the above im still confused on if i can actually use this radio legally without a licence. having read through the link form xrayhead, it mentions radios that can use other frequencies cannot use the PMR446 ones: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/ra357.htm "5. RADIO EQUIPMENT PMR 446 radio equipment must be handportable, have an integral antenna, have a maximum ERP of 500 mW and be compliant with ETS 300 296. PMR 446 radio equipment must use the above frequencies only. Radio equipment which can operate on any other frequency, including Short Range Business Radio (SRBR) equipment capable of using frequencies in the 461 MHz band, must not be used for the PMR 446 service." Im also confused on the 500 mW ERP power level and how i would set this up if i can in fact use the radio on the PMR446 frequencies. Link to post Share on other sites
gisburn20 Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 I was looking at the same radios, The basic answer is no, technically you can't use them on PMR freqs, because the low power mode is still 1W output, i.e. double the max output. However lots of people do and even use them on 5w output on PMR bands- ie. 10x the max output! I have stuck with my TTI TXL's for now as they are 100% legal, but the Baofengs are legal to own (to use to receive) but transmitting at 5w would require a licence, and even with a licence cant be legally used on PMR freqs due to power restrictions. People ignore this and these radios seem very popular, however if you did get caught you could be prosecuted. I'm still pondering the risks vs gain. I'd love a more powerful, more professional style of radio with an interchangeable antenna for different roles. Jim Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stephen Posted September 7, 2014 Report Share Posted September 7, 2014 hmm, based on that then ill more than likely send mine back. (hasn't even arrived yet ) I have a motorola TLKR-T7 which has been reasonable but like yourself i have wanted something a bit more substantial. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted September 8, 2014 Report Share Posted September 8, 2014 The Baofengs are everywhere, and like Aod says the authorities have basically washed their hands of the PMR-446 frequencies; they don't seem to bother regulating them. The risk is pretty minimal and use is widespread, so I'd say you're perfectly safe to use them so long as you stick to the approved channels. Link to post Share on other sites
xrayhead Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Some good deals coming up on Ebay on the Baofengs now :-) Link to post Share on other sites
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