APS CAM870 Impressions

[NonEx]

Really, that is way off... hurr durr. Let me get my calipers out.

 

OK. Stock OEM paper caps are 18.4mm in diameter.

 

0.75" or 3/4" is 19.04mm, which means the punched out paper would be 0.64mm too large in diameter, or 0.32mm on either side.

You sure you got a 3/4" punch? Can you measeure the circles it cuts and see? Maybe it's off spec or something. Because 0.32mm off sounds acceptable. EDIT: Then again the OEM paper caps are a real tight fit to begin with so maybe even 0.32mm on either sides make a big differense.

 

The actual punch or circle maker you would need to get true OEM spec circles would be 0.725" (18.4/25.4). Sounds awfully non standard to be possible to find... Again, 0.32 off sounds decent. But guess it depends on how accurate the punches are.

 

EDIT: The actual inside diameter of the shells where the lip is for the paper to sit in, is actually 17.3mm in diameter. That equals 0.68" in diameter.

 

So the OEM paper caps are already oversized by 1.1mm. An additional 0.64mm is significant in that regard. Dang. That gives you a total diff from shell to punched circle of 1.74mm.

 

But yeah, lower weight paper, just the right thickness, should be alright. The caps won't sit flush at the end, but as long as it holds the BBs in and doesn't create too much resistance it should be OK.

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[blobface]

Well the 1mm was what I remembered it as, it did seem pretty excessive, but I could be wrong, when I get home tonight I'll do a proper measurement to see how much it's really off by. 

[NonEx]

Well... This could mean that we have a bit of a pickle in our hands to deal with (wait... what?!)

 

I just got delivery of 7 packs (x50) of waddings and caps so I should be good for a while. Also have the punch coming in but this might not be as good as I was hoping it would be.

 

The YouTube video I got it from, the 3/4" punch idea, showed it on camera and said "This is exactly what you need, it works perfectly."

 

So much for trusting the internetz

 

This guy;

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/Chiinnature/search?query=870

 

He has a lot of videos on the 870, pretty fun to watch and good info. Can't remember what video, it's in there somewhere.

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[mvirtue]

My 870 should arrive on Thursday. Wish I could spring for the breacher at the same time though.

[blobface]

18.8mm is the diameter of the hole punch paper, 17mm is the inside of the shells, so my 2mm estimation wasn't miles away. It still fits provided the paper isn't too thick (like when I used card)

[DEVILHUNTER]

It's a very nice idea the punch, I will use them with my tanaka ones (17mm). Anyways, If you know somebody with a lathe, you can easy change the diameter of the punch to make it fit.

 

Also I plan to use as the wad skiffy caps 062 (6 cents each) that Doc_Glock discovered, they are 17mm, not sure if them will work with the CAM870 17.5mm bore, maybe with some cuts on the caps...

 

http://www.skiffy.com/docs/menufr.cfm?taal=gb&pagina=prodinfo.cfm&serie=062&artnum=062016000003&order=order&maatkeus=mm

Edited September 9, 2014 by DEVILHUNTER

[NonEx]

18.8mm is the diameter of the hole punch paper, 17mm is the inside of the shells, so my 2mm estimation wasn't miles away. It still fits provided the paper isn't too thick (like when I used card)

 

Well yes but compared to the OEM paper it's not as far off

 

Your punch is actually off spec then as 3/4" should be 19.04mm.

 

OK, well then it might work out just fine

 

Problem with lathing a paper punch it's a dual operation. You have a dye (hole in steel) and the actual punch/cutter. You can adjust the hole of a 1/2" punch hole, but the cutting part not as easy.

Maybe we are talking about different types of punches, not sure

 

 

To be honest about the wads. Just from first time experience I think those will last a good while if you don't lose them. I had zero breakage, damages or tears on mine. Then again my first shooting experience with the rifle wasn't perhaps fully powered so.

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[NonEx]

My 870 should arrive on Thursday. Wish I could spring for the breacher at the same time though.

 

Not sure if referencing TM breacher or APS shorty. But if the latter do what I did and just buy parts to build it into a shorty as well

[mvirtue]

Not sure if referencing TM breacher or APS shorty. But if the latter do what I did and just buy parts to build it into a shorty as well

 

The shorty

[NonEx]

Right. Want my shopping list ?

Rebuilding it is easy as pie actually.

 

Or maybe you just want both. I can't fault you for that.

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[mvirtue]

Right. Want my shopping list ?

Rebuilding it is easy as pie actually.

 

Or maybe you just want both. I can't fault you for that.

Sure Might start there then get both

[NonEx]

Cool.

 

Here's my updates list.

 

Just be aware what I wrote about the stock screws. I will look into that tomorrow. Since you are in the US sourcing a metric screw that you need won't be any problem at all.

It might also depend on what pistol grip you choose. But I can say the Remington TAMER I got is sooo nice!

EDIT: OK realized what I wrote about a metric screw in the US sounded weird. What I mean is availability is easier in the US

 

So, here is the full list;

 

 

Basically all you need is this;

 

1x APS CAM870 full lenght version (duh)

1x APS 14" outer barrel

1x APS 4+1 magazine spring kit (or for like 4 USD more get the 11" extension kit and cut the spring.)

1x APS LE style magazine cap

1x Pistol grip and forend of choice

1x Pistol grip mounting hardware / screw, Metric size (I'll get back to you on that)

 

Forend tool is optional, you can use a needle noose plyer or something to fit in the cut out grooves to remove it.

 

Then to rebuild the rifle you have to do this;

 

1. Acquire appropriate mounting hardware for pistol grip (depending on choice of pistol grip).
2. Remove original buttstock.
3. Modify new pistol grip to match original buttstock (obvious when looking at it).
4. Install pistol grip.
5. Remove barrel and magazine clamp.
6. Unscrew magazine tube extension.
7. Remove magazine tube spring.
8. Remove original outer barrel.
9. Unscrew forend screw.
10. Remove original forend.
11. Replace with new forend (drop in fit, booh-yah!)
12. Install forend screw.
13. Install 14" outer barrel.
14. Install 4+1 spring, or cut 11" extension spring as described on previous page.
15. Install LE end cap.

Ready to rock and roll bitches!

 

PS.

 

#YOLOSWAG

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[mvirtue]

Ready to rock and roll bitches!

 

WooHoo!

 

Dang there are a lot of pistol grips out there for 870s.

[NonEx]

Like I said.. TAMER...

 

Also not sure where you are looking but when filtering on Brownells there are 3 hits;

 

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/stock-forend-parts/pistol-grips/index.htm?avs%7CMake~~Model_1=Remington__870

 

I am really glad I went with the full size first and then option to rebuild. Other way around would of been a nightmare

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[mvirtue]

Like I said.. TAMER...

 

Also not sure where you are looking but when filtering on Brownells there are 3 hits;

 

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/stock-forend-parts/pistol-grips/index.htm?avs%7CMake~~Model_1=Remington__870

 

 

Amazon has 100s

 

The Hogue looks nice. I have FABs on all my M4s and I like how they feel in my hand. The ability to add a folding stock is kinda intriguing.

[NonEx]

Amazon... Come on bro. Who buys gun parts on Amazon

 

EDIT: OK... http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/185-7458111-8433518?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pistol%20grip%20remington%20870&sprefix=pistol+grip+remin%2Caps

 

Maybe I should be doing that

Also Amazon is more like a broker these days, selling for others. But whutevers.

Also looks like a lot of dupes and package deals etc.

 

Anyways, the TAMER was what I was after for myself so it's fine.

 

Suprising Brownells had so few pistol grips.

Edited September 9, 2014 by NonEx

[mvirtue]

Amazon... Come on bro. Who buys gun parts on Amazon

 

 

I want to build an entire AR built off of parts from Amazon, including an 80% lower.

 

I did buy the Hogue Now to wait for the parts to be in stock on Evike, so I have a shot at not paying MSRP.

[aznriptide859]

Random side question, but does anyone know how "compatible" G&P 870's are with RS 870's? I recall G&P's were Maruzen-based, and I remember fitting a folding stock to my old Maruzen 870 but can't recall if a lot of modifications were required. There's a collapsible stock I'd like to get for the APS, but it's marked as for the G&P 870.

[NonEx]

I'm really sorry guys but you can all stop trying right now...

 

 

 

Pistol grip installation needs fine tuning.

 

Put the pistol grip forend on there because I like to looks of it, and it's comfortable to hold, but damn it has *suitcase* ugly finish and ###### poor quality... Will try the Hogue forend later.

 

Oh and that's a Doctor RMR sight replica on the rail as well

 

The screw you want for the TAMER is  MC6S M6x55mm screw, aka. DIN 912 A4-80 M6x55mm.

Here's a US link;

https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=6547

 

50mm lenght also works fine.

 

I found one at a local hardware store. But the longer ones will be a bit more difficult to source. The synthetic one is 10.5" long... Not sure where you could source that from. Gotta be out there somewhere.

 

But yeah, MC6S M6x##mm / DIN 912 A4-80 M6x##mm are the types of screws you need to mount in the reciever threads.

 

Also busted up the finish on my LE end cap pretty badly. The barrel / end cap detent pin was sticking real bad on the cap when I tried to screw it one. Had to use a wrench to remove it. I did have a clothe in between but didn't help it seems. I thought it was the holes in the cap that were to deep and sharp, so I started modding and whatever. Then I realized the spring on the barrel end cap detent wasn't working, completely stuck. Removed the detent alltogether right now, will see if I bother trying to get it to work.

 

Will buy another LE cap to replace, I can't live with the finish like that, O C D  waaaaargh!

 

The rail sight mount was a bit mewh to install. It didn't align perfectly with the screw holes, so I had to sort of force the screws in. And then I remembered what happened to my rail magazine/barrel clamp when I did that... :|

Gotta go easy on it. I'll see if I can file down the inside of the upper side of the rail to give it some clearance for alignment. (It's bottoming out against the top of the reciever. No idea why they didn't give it 1-2mm of clearance). Also trigger was a bit funny when I had the rail on, like it was flexing or pushing the internals somehow...

 

U jellies ?

Edited September 10, 2014 by NonEx

[DeltaZero]

That is beautiful! Well done. Not going to lie from pictures that pump grip looks really nice! 

Edited September 10, 2014 by DeltaZero

[NonEx]

Thank you. I'm really pleased with it

 

Thanks UCMS for the spring measurement for the shorty. Loads and cycles like champ!

[mvirtue]

@NonEx

 

I think I'm going to go with

 

I'll run a FAB pistol grip. And when I want it throw a spare buffer tube and stock on it.

Edited September 10, 2014 by mvirtue

[NonEx]

Mkayz. Let's hope that the shorty grip screw lenght is some sort of standard size across the board for all pistol grips.

[Deadmeat]

Wow this is a great example of the power coming out of these things!

 

 

Is it possible to load the cartridges with green gas instead of the CO2 of is it some kind of specialised valve which means you can only use the supplied APS CO2 charger?

[NonEx]

Outch.

 

AFAIK no way to load gas in due to the special design of the charger. If you can get like a GG valve cap on the end of the loading chamber that could possible work.