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Wolverine SMP HPA cylinder replacement

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@bjorn what air rig, airline and tank are you using? At what psi?

 

What's your dwell set at? Is your problem only in cold months or does it behave like this aswell in summer?

Edited by k-p

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Towards the polarstar problem, polars in cold weather can suffer from stiching. Guys like dobey(chad) and others have found their way around this by using duel regulators. One regulator controlling the solenoids at a high pressure while the other regulator fills the void behind the poppet at what ever target fps ypu want/need.

Edited by k-p

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ALl FCU settings can be had from the YT video description. 

 

 

 

First is Guarder 6.02 300mm, Lonex rotary chamber, MapleLeaf Monster hopup rubber.

Second is PDI 6.05 470mm, Lonex rotary chamber, Prometheus Purple hopup rubber.


On all tests BB-s used are 0.3g Blaster Devil. 
90PSI gives different FPS with barrel length. 

Gold poppet, Blue nozzle bored out to 5mm (Red+ Nozzle).

FCU settings as follows:
DN20
DP25
RF08
DR20
CBON

 

I am doing all the shooting from warm room temperature. I am using ALU 0.8L bottle with stock regulator. Secondary is Balystic HPR800 regulator, set at 90 PSI giving 90m/s with 0.3g bb-s using Guarder 300mm inner barrel. 
The SMP is using Redline setup with Amped hose, kevlar bottle and high quality reg etc. Here is a dropbox link with SMP vids, also shooting vid! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sr7n6m5pf22hqif/AACh_F5FpmSJdtKpzoquAqGWa?dl=0#/
The SMP was double checked to have good grease and no burrs. 

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Here is second video. Please read YT description. I bored out hopup chamber neck with 8mm drill bit. At first results seemed betted, but when I dialed more hopup in, they went a bit worse again. 

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That's good that there was a improvment, two other things you could try and I'm just guessing. A cold weather bucking like the g&g green might help. I know you said it's in a warm room but still ambient temps might be cold for the maple leaf. Another person playing in 30° weather made note of having problems with the maple leaf do to temps.

 

Matching the mound of the bucking to the size of the barrels window is another possibility.

Somethings funky in my opinion In the hop up.

Another possibility is the regulator might need to be re lubed, see if pausing for a count of 5 makes a difference between shots. If it does you might have a refresh issue.

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Btw about your dwell, it seems on the low side for cold weather. That's the same value I run at buy it's 80 to 90° here with about 80% humidity. I would try increasing it and see if taking slower shots improves anything. Btw I not only bored the neck of the lonex but also the center section. Anywhere the nozzle would touch I made it larger, I've had a similar issue in my hurricane Sr 47 where in needed to enlarge the hop up chamber.

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Just as a note. Room temp was 18C or 65F. I bored out all they way to bucking lip, left about 2mm material to support the lip.

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So...I'm happy to help with SMP but honestly I don't have the first bit of expertise with Polarstar so I'm kind of out of the discussion at this point. 

The play in the SMP nozzle should not be an issue. That is typical. I'm honestly a little confused at this point as to what hop up is being used with what set up. Could we keep seperate threads for the Polarstart discussion and the SMP discussion? I thought you were using the lonex with the SMP but now it seems it is with the Polarstar. 

As far as the shooting video with the SMP, there is definitely something not right with the hop up/set up. You don't seem to be rubbing on the chamber, so that's good. Are you sure the bucking lips aren't extending into path of the bb causing the bbs to catch on them as it goes past? I say that because you seem to be getting random scatter in all directions. Can you give me an idea of the range that tree in the center of the picture is? 

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Just got the E&L AK apart. cursory inspection shows that the nozzle used seems to be an LCT length not a TM length. That by itself would likely have caused poor performance. I'll be installing using our FAL nozzle which is extremely close in length to the LCT. I'll report back once I have the installation done. 

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Any news on this issue? 

Here is a new video of the same problem. In the mean time the rifle has been disassembled, lubed, fitted with a stock poppet and dual reg setup. Running 100PSI on the poppet and 70PSI on the barrel. As you can see nothing has changed. Next up - low pressure spring on the poppet and nozzle. 

I am really interested if the SMP similar problem can be eliminated since I might be doing a MG36 build with a SMP V3. 

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Sorry, been super busy so still haven't gotten to try what I wanted to with that gun. Again, please understand I am not giving you ANY information regarding whatever problems you may have with polarstar. The systems are completely different and need to be treated as such. The issues are fundamentally something having to do with how the system meshes with a hop up, and I do not believe there is one magic bullet solution when they arise. It's just a matter of systematically working through and finding what is wrong. In this case after trying multiple buckings and correcting the alignment I realized that all the stock hop up chamber is extremely loose and BBS simply fall through into the chamber with no force. I believe that is causing inconsistency as sometimes the bb will already be in the chamber at the start of firing and sometimes it will be pushed in as part of the shot. I have a good deal of travel over the next few weeks including going to Germany for the IWA, so I'm not sure when exactly I will get to it. It is still on my workbench however so it will get done eventually.

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I understand. But you do have to understand that it is a 99% similar problem on many HPA users. I have very similar hopup-barrel-nub-chamber-body setups that I have built for many friends. All firing the same bb-s, using even similar mags. But all run AEG gearboxes. And guess what - not a single problem even remotely close to what you see in the videos. 

And then we have 2 SMP-s and 2 Polarstars that all exhibit the same "problem" in one way or another. All running different tank, reg and hose setups. 

So - the only common thing is HPA - either SMP or FE. 

So as it seems to me - as long as you can´t identify 100% that this thing is isolated to some kind of hopup combo that is a bad choise, or a body issue, I am stating that this is a FE/SMP issue. 

Heres the point: Prove me wrong and you will get my money. Cash waiting. Most likely with a few other installs waiting for a good result. 

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What you just said is why I said earlier I wasn't sure this was going to accomplish anything. If you don't accpet the proof of thousands of users who don't have this issue as evidence that it is not somethign inherently wrong with HPA...me finding what the problem is in the one setup I have that displays this type of behavior is not going to convince you. But I'll do it anyway in hopes that it is informative for others reading. 

Edited by WolverineAirsoft

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I just read that you also did a duel reg set up and it's shooting the same.

 

Try swapping out your gold poppet and retes, you can also try a new poppet sail oring. What your video looks like to me is that you are either getting inconsistent pressures from shot to shot, or you have something that's just not right going on in your hop up.

 

As far as proving you wrong that's totally up to you.. If your not willing to work out your guns issues that's entirely up to you, but like Rich has stated there are literary hundreds of thousands of customers that are happy with their HPA set up. Btw why would you ask Rich to trouble shoot another person's product? If you want someone to trouble shoot your polarstar then contact polarstar. I'm sure they will be more then willing to take a look at your fusion and throw it on the flow bench to see if you have any hidden issues with the solenoids.

Edited by k-p

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Tried swapping gold to stock poppet. Will put new o-rings to test out. 
If the pressure is inconsistent, then wouldn´t it appear in chrono results as well?

1) I did not ask Rich to troubleshoot someone else rifle, the owner of that rifle sent it to him AFAIK. I just want to know if there was an update. 
2) I do not know if PS and Wolverine have sold 200k+ units or not. I do know there are other unhappy customers as well. 
3) I would send, but then would cost as much as almost a second hand FE. 

It seems to (sorry if it is just me) that you are somewhat affected by the fact that you probably make money by selling or installing FE/SMP setups. I myself am on the pursuit to get the best platform out there into the rifles of me and my friends. To this point it has been a hit and a miss. All given advice has been taken and tried with no new and profound results. 

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I will do my best to ignore the fact that you just accused me and my company of misrepresenting my results in order to sell my product. Given the frequency which that occurs in many industries including our own you can hardly be faulted for assuming that.But as someone who runs the most transparent and honest business that i possibly can, that accusation (while I'm in the process of trying to help you on a public forum understand and correct a problem you are having rather than sweeping the issue under the rug like many companies would) is extremely offensive.

 

You apparently don't understand my point so I will try one more time: I never claimed there were no challenges associated with hop up set up with our system. I tell people all the time that it is more picky about and likes different arrangements of hop up than AEGs. I also never claimed that others haven't seen similar issues at times. In fact I volunteered that I have a gun acting up on my bench right now. What I said is that it is not helpful and factually incorrect if your default opinion is that it is impossible or at least extremely rare to achieve good results with our system. And I support that by any number of many witnesses (users) who have done so. I appreciate your willingness to try things suggested.

 

At this point I am unclear who is needing help with an SMP and of what variety. That's what I came here to do and I'm hopeful that it will still end up being of benefit. I'm afraid I have no suggestions for your polarstar set up seeing as I have only ever touched one a few times and have no real expertise in them at all.

Edited by WolverineAirsoft

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Hi, 

I don´t really understand what you mean by your posts first section. If you can please clarify, English is not my mother language.

As to the other part - please read Facebook SMP owners post start by Austin Ray here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/WolverineAirsoftSMP/
As you can read - I just acquired a brand new SMP V2. a brand new Gearbox shell and started to test fit everything one more time. Just to try out once more all the suggestions. 

So far I have tried 2 quality barrel and hopup setups with 2 hopup chambers. Nozzle aligned, hopup chamber neck bored etc. All thing imaginable. No dice, still erratic. 

So - please let me know what is the hopup chamber-bucking-barrel combo that you suggest to use with a SMP setup. 

Btw I just made another video that show the same barrel-hopup combo in a Lonex AEG and a stock Lonex AEG in comparisson. Both shooting BEAUTIFUL flat and consistent trajectories. Video can be found here:

 

This is 100% the same barrel-chamber-bucking combo as seen in some other vids. 


 

Edited by bjorn

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Just to clarify. Anything that Bjorn has been talking about Polarstars in this thread is that it has an issue similar that we're seeing with the SMP. It's only in the reference that both are HPA systems that show a similar characteristics on our rather specific issue.

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Just checking back in. How did the E&L AK install go? I had an attempt at doing mine but although the nozzle alignment looked better I still wasn't getting the results. Did you go with the default hop rubber/chamber? Any sequence to refitting gearbox (as there is with the M4's)?

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Bjorn: Is there any chance that you could measure the spread of the airstreams coming out?

I've noticed on paintball markers that this correlates with precision sometimes.

It might be somewhat difficult to measure on an airsoftgun, but perhaps by shooting at some strings it would be visible.

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