swatti Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 One would imagine those valves are used in other magazines too... I have paintball bottle and an adapter to fill up regular mags with Co2 in liquid form but the pressure of Co2 flattens the rubber O-rings on regular valves and no hammer-spring is powerful enough to open them. Thus I need valves from a Co2 magazine which use harder seals. Is there a Co2 valve that fits DE mags? Hi Capa? Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted January 30, 2015 Report Share Posted January 30, 2015 Interesting. Ill be watching this space, I'd love to get Co2 running out of my DE. Had no pressure related magazine issues? Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 The two-piece build of the mags is slight worry but they are rather sturdy. Just need the valves... EDIT: good news. - The magazine will not explode or bloat from CO2. Tested, - The stock-valve did what i expected and jammed shut. - KJW gen1 poop CO2 valve FITS(!!!) but needs modification It looks like "hi-capa" stuff works. Will need to test KJW Gen2 CO2 valve... Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted January 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2015 HAIL THE KING BABY!!! It can be done! TM Desert Eagle can be run on CO2 KJW gen2 CO2 valve fits, but DOES NOT SEAL. It has no seal at its rear-end... HOWEVER, the Gen2 valve has a very different hard-seal then the Gen1 valve. The gen2 valve just needs the O-ring from the TM valve, drop that down to the mag valve-well and tighten the Gen2 valve on top of it. The mag now runs on CO2 like it was built to do so... I was also able to pump in meaty 16g of CO2 in to the mag, now that, that is a lot... ONE final issue remains: The KJW valve is much shorter and sits deeper in the magazine. Thus the hammer pin cant reach it. Theres more then a few ways to fix this but to avoid modifying the gun or the valve in any way, one could simply make a small "part" around the valve's top to act as an extender and the magazine itself will nicely keep it in place without any glue or such. Building this part will require an access to a CNC-machine and thus take me few days... Another would be to replace the valve's top part with a longer one. Problem is, it needs VERY tiny threads made into it so the tiny screw holding the valve together fits, these threads need to be quite long considoring the screw is mere 1mm thick and the material has to be quite sturdy to stay in shape. I have no idea where to find a tool able to make such small threads. Using the screw itself to make threads may bend it or snap it and there goes the whole valve. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 This is such good news. How does one go about safely filling with Co2? Is the DE firing happily now? If you make these valve adaptors up ill buy 5 Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Despite the 2-piece construction the mag is VERY sturdy and has held all the juice so far. I'll link the adapter later once I get home. Just like a green gas fill up but from a paintball co2-tank. Maybe I can make a prototype out of a dead gen1 kjw valve to test the gun. I have high hopes. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I have to say, you've got some really big cajones to even try and see if the mags can hold the pressure. Many mags just can't take it, not even with green gas under the sun (about 250psi at most) and ends spectacularly unless you happen to be holding it. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 But how do you get the liquid co2 into the mags? On my phone my spelling will suck Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 But how do you get the liquid co2 into the mags? Use a Co2 bottle adapter, quite a few people make them now for moscarts and such. I agree with RC though, it's a brave/daft/mad move putting liquid Co2 into a mag that's really not designed for it, I'd say best case failure wise is the valves/o-rings going before anything else but I wouldn't want to skirmish anywhere near someone who was doing this with regular cast pot metal mags and I think sites would be wise to not allow it in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I had one of the adaptors, but from all the research I did you could only get Co2 vapour in resulting in 1 - 2 high power shots. Someone just has to make Desert Eagle Co2 mags and I am shocked after 12 years on the market no one has. Link to post Share on other sites
Stuey Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 It works just like propane, turn it upside down and the liquid CO2 goes in the mag. Very brave putting it in a normal Deagle mag though, somewhat beyond its design spec. We need some new machined mags... Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Also worth mentioning the steep drop in pressure CO2 gets. At just about freezing temps its at around 450psi. At 20 degrees and warmer and you start getting double that. And consider the fatigue metals can take (especially zinc diecast) when repeatedly pressurized and depressurized. Might be fine now but there's really no way in telling if that's still the case after the Nth refill. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 This is such good news. How does one go about safely filling with Co2? Define 'safely'. Like RenegadeCow, Stuey and Rob15 I have to express that I think this is a very, very bad idea. TM's manuals usually specify the safe limit for its guns at 40°C with 1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane, which equals vapour pressure inside the magazine of ~130psig. CO2 at 20°C is more like 875psig, more than six and a half times the specified safe pressure. This is not a steel container like a CO2 bulb; these are cast pot-metal magazines - they're not cylindrical (so they are prone to stress concentration in the corners) and they're of utterly uncertain provenance. You could not pay me to be within a few feet of one of these if it was dropped onto a hard surface or left in the sun for a few hours. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I believe the mags are part machined and the the 2-piece construction acts as a safety as the seals would blow long before the mag would. There's a pretty powerful garage heater here and I have one half-dead mag to try it on. Let's see if it blows... Good thing I got a geardo friend with EOD set Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm not technically minded so this could be a load of old *suitcase* but could you not transplant say, KJW 1911 co2 mag internals into the D.eagle mag and reroute the bb feed and gas port? Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thats an idea... Im no expert by any means an expert but could you not have a regulator on the fill bottle to allow a lower pressure of Co2 in? Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 ^ Yes, but then all you'll get is vapor if the pressure you're aiming at is lower than its liquification point (at the certain temp) which translates to not a lot of gas. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm not technically minded so this could be a load of old *suitcase* but could you not transplant say, KJW 1911 co2 mag internals into the D.eagle mag and reroute the bb feed and gas port? Why? Just swap the CO2 valve and thats it. Why make it so difficult? And no, not possible. Thats an idea... Im no expert by any means an expert but could you not have a regulator on the fill bottle to allow a lower pressure of Co2 in? Nope, you'd be left with just vapours and get maybe two shots out. ------------------------------------------------------------------- And now, its tested and proven. Using the heater, forementioned EOD-gear and simple testing of just throwing it the mag against a very hard metal plate, i can safely say it holds. Mag had aprox ~16g of CO2 in it. Turned up the heater, placed the mag "way too close" and ran. Took maybe one minute till the seal of the upper-half melted due to the heater and the gas leaked out. Using a very accurate digital caliber it seems the mag does not change size or shape in any way, atleast measurable. Sadly the nozzle of the CO2 adapter broke when the bottle fell off the table. RIP - I shall build a new one, from STEEEEEL! EDIT: i was filming it all but my camera-phone disagrees... More to come. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well this does look like the best solution so far to people wanting to use a full metal DE in any other than +25c weather. On my phone my spelling will suck Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Using the heater, forementioned EOD-gear and simple testing of just throwing it the mag against a very hard metal plate, i can safely say it holds. Mag had aprox ~16g of CO2 in it. Turned up the heater, placed the mag "way too close" and ran. Took maybe one minute till the seal of the upper-half melted due to the heater and the gas leaked out. I applaud this empirical data collection! I still don't want to be within twenty feet of one, though. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Despite my not-so-scientific measures I do believe these are as safe as any Co2-mag. Considering the material-thickness and regular co2 pressure I wasn't surprised. I was worried about the fill-valve and the seals holding the upper half in place. I've been bottle-feeding a KWC uzi for a while now and also no issues. Material there is far more... KWC and thinner. I replaced the melted seal and tomorrow will take the mag to its final test. There is a machine shop with equipment to pressure-test engine components... Since the mag didn't blow, lets see what it will take. Link to post Share on other sites
Stuey Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 At least you're applying science to it, which is nice. Slight detour, what did you plug the Uzi mag with to bottle feed it? I'm about to buy one. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Uzi mag bottom cap: M22 x 1.5m screw. https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-0/10366196_925753434131487_1783390622013329622_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=0feaaa4286e86b072fb1ecb675d0b24f&oe=555A5C9B&__gda__=1432464170_4595f1ad505226d4092e7234ca29e181 Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted February 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Update: FUBAR I tried to make a new tip to the valve and broke the tiny screw... Sadly it was the only one i had. Stupid me. Heres hoping KJW will answer my email and sell me more of those valves. We also failed to explode the magazine with shear pressure. The seals kept blowing before the mag itself. They also took far more pressure then CO2 can produce in any natural conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 Awesome. Good to know! May be doing this myself Link to post Share on other sites
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