Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

infamousmax

BESTEST RIFLE IN TEH WORLD?!

Recommended Posts

If you want to void the warranty, yet buy it new/complete?

CA, Lonex (ASG LMT), G&P, APS, ICS (transform4 or newer) in my opinion, but there are more, and it depends more on the mechanic who assembles it.

The important thing is the gearbox shell (not the internals) and the body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to void the warranty, yet buy it new/complete?

CA, Lonex (ASG LMT), G&P, APS, ICS (transform4 or newer) in my opinion, but there are more, and it depends more on the mechanic who assembles it.

The important thing is the gearbox shell (not the internals) and the body.

 

Hi Thanks for the reply,

 

No don't wish to void warranty. It is my first airsoft gun so want best I can get for my money of course do not want to tinker just yet.

 

You sound like a chap who knows his stuff so just want to know what m4 you think i should get.

 

I like the look of H&K Umarex HK417D or HK416 CQB. 

 

I shall take a gander at those brands you suggested.

 

Thanks mate. I deffo owe you a pint for all this help! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, np.

 

IIRC the Umarex 416/417 are VFC rifles.

The 417 one has a proprietary gearbox and is prone to breaking when upgraded internally (most stock gearboxes are, but it sucks when they are hard to replace or upgrade). It's also quite a lot bigger than the 416/M4, you just don't notice it on pictures because everything on it, stock, receiver, etc, is 10% larger.

 

I don't have personal experience with the VFC HK416, but the receiver is not the nicest looking. Dboys make a very nice anodiazed (rare in airsoft) HK416, it may be a better choice than the VFC one.

 

One of my favorites, in terms of external design, is the ASR114 from APS:

http://www.aps-concept.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=397

 

-Low profile gasblock (or in this case, none) / flipdown frontsight

-RIS/Keymod front, 10", freefloat

-CQB-R +- length outerbarrel

-Cranestock for battery

-Zero wobble between receiver parts (hold the motor grip and the upper receiver and twist it, if there's the slightest feel of wobble, it's loose and will become worse over time)

You can find these pros in many rifles though. Doesn't have to be that one. But get that and you're golden on the externals.

 

I think the best thing you can do is find a shop close to you and take a tour of their inventory. Just get something M4 CQB-R sized, don't let them talk you into anything different.

 

And if there's the slightest possibility that you could accept the looks of the EVO, take it, it's miles apart from other rifles in it's pricerange.

If i had to build the equivalent of an EVO, it would roughly look like this:

Rifle: 250-300£

ASCU: 80£

Gears: 44£

Motor: 50£

Decent piston and other bits: 25£

Installation: 100£ ish (non-shop mechanics are cheaper though)

(Probably be 10% cheaper overall in UK though)

 

-------

 

You can rarely compare prices across products and shops. If they buy straight from HK, they get it cheaper (especially if it's a big shop that can support high volume orders), but might have worse support than a shop buying it from a national distributor.

 

Other distributors have hefty markups, Umarex being one of them. Distributors, trademarks and patents is a whole nother mess.

 

The ICS rifles are generally allright for the price. They took a decade to get where they are now though. They tend to get wobble between the receivers, though i don't know about the newer ones.

They're a godsend if you're a mechanic because they're so easy to work on. Other than that, and if you don't plan on swapping springs often (not much reason to in UK), it's not better than other mainline rifles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, np.

 

IIRC the Umarex 416/417 are VFC rifles.

The 417 one has a proprietary gearbox and is prone to breaking when upgraded internally (most stock gearboxes are, but it sucks when they are hard to replace or upgrade). It's also quite a lot bigger than the 416/M4, you just don't notice it on pictures because everything on it, stock, receiver, etc, is 10% larger.

 

I don't have personal experience with the VFC HK416, but the receiver is not the nicest looking. Dboys make a very nice anodiazed (rare in airsoft) HK416, it may be a better choice than the VFC one.

 

One of my favorites, in terms of external design, is the ASR114 from APS:

http://www.aps-concept.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=397

 

-Low profile gasblock (or in this case, none) / flipdown frontsight

-RIS/Keymod front, 10", freefloat

-CQB-R +- length outerbarrel

-Cranestock for battery

-Zero wobble between receiver parts (hold the motor grip and the upper receiver and twist it, if there's the slightest feel of wobble, it's loose and will become worse over time)

You can find these pros in many rifles though. Doesn't have to be that one. But get that and you're golden on the externals.

 

I think the best thing you can do is find a shop close to you and take a tour of their inventory. Just get something M4 CQB-R sized, don't let them talk you into anything different.

 

And if there's the slightest possibility that you could accept the looks of the EVO, take it, it's miles apart from other rifles in it's pricerange.

If i had to build the equivalent of an EVO, it would roughly look like this:

Rifle: 250-300£

ASCU: 80£

Gears: 44£

Motor: 50£

Decent piston and other bits: 25£

Installation: 100£ ish (non-shop mechanics are cheaper though)

(Probably be 10% cheaper overall in UK though)

 

-------

 

You can rarely compare prices across products and shops. If they buy straight from HK, they get it cheaper (especially if it's a big shop that can support high volume orders), but might have worse support than a shop buying it from a national distributor.

 

Other distributors have hefty markups, Umarex being one of them. Distributors, trademarks and patents is a whole nother mess.

 

The ICS rifles are generally allright for the price. They took a decade to get where they are now though. They tend to get wobble between the receivers, though i don't know about the newer ones.

They're a godsend if you're a mechanic because they're so easy to work on. Other than that, and if you don't plan on swapping springs often (not much reason to in UK), it's not better than other mainline rifles.

 

Thanks mate much appreciated for all your help.

 

I shall definitely take your advice. I think my plan of action is to get to a shop although it is 2 hours from me! Ekkk :D

 

I know the EVO sounds amazing and has great reviews I just don't think I can get it as my first airsoft gun.

 

If I can get maybe a HK416 CQC (Agree the 17 way too big) and then I can always upgrade the parts after a year? I doubt I will be doing anything my first year that will require such a badass internals. Then I can always get a EVO next year haha :).

 

Thanks mate, Seriously though if you're ever in the UK and you see a 6 foot 3 plastic and the badge "infamousmax" give me a tap and I shall buy you a beer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a fellow left-hander, I would say:

  • Avoid SA80/L85 variants. The real thing cannot be shot left-handed (the reciprocating charging handle would smash your teeth) and the gun is flat-out not designed for left-handed users.
  • Seek ambidextrous fire-selectors. I know you think you'll barely be using it, but trust me on this - a lot of sites will require you to transition from automatic to semi-automatic in-game (e.g. when entering buildings) and you want to be able to do that without shifting your grip. Reloading, which requires you to break cheek weld and move your hand(s) around anyway, is less important - so an ambidextrous magazine release is correspondingly less important than the fire selector.

I would strongly recommend you investigating:

  • Tokyo Marui HK HK416 - The only AR-15-pattern Recoil Shock with ambidextrous selectors, and an all-round great gun - one of the best AEGs on the market at the moment. Features recoil, bolt-lock, and stop-on-empty. Great out of the box and highly upgradeable. You could also look at Tokyo Marui's FNH SCAR on the basis that that also has ambidextrous selectors and is equally competent, although harder to upgrade.
  • ASG CZ Scorpion Evo 3 - A compact SMG with a built-in FCU/MOSFET and ambidextrous selectors, and also an advanced gun. Features bolt-lock, and stop-on-empty. Excellent out of the box.
  • VFC KAC SR16 - Perhaps the only fully-ambidextrous (specialised ambidextrous lower receiver, including magazine release and selectors) AEG AR-15. Does not have realistic features like recoil, bolt-lock or stop-on-empty, but is very nicely made and affordable, at least compared to the previous two. Works out of the box, but would benefit from very cheap pre-use attention to its piston and gearset.

As to the other questions:

 

BTW everybody, i'm seriously considering the new Tippmann Rifle ! :o Tell me why I should NOT buy the new Tippmann! PLEASE. haha.

 

The Tippmann M4 is divisive. The recoil is very weak, the CO2 magazines it uses are apparently dreadful (leaky) and AFAIK aren't even self-sealing - that is, if you drop the magazine from the gun, it will vent any CO2 remaining in the bulb, which is very wasteful and rapidly becomes expensive. Consistency, and consequentially range and accuracy, is very poor when using the CO2 magazines. All of the people that like the gun use it with HPA and a hose as a cheaper alternative to a DaytonaGun/Escort. Even as fans are telling you that solutions to lots of common problems can be found in Facebook support groups, they're acknowledging that the gun often has a lot of problems out-of-the-box. Tippmann's brand is very strong in paintball, but they are newcomers to airsoft and hold no particular cachet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a fellow left-hander, I would say:

  • Avoid SA80/L85 variants. The real thing cannot be shot left-handed (the reciprocating charging handle would smash your teeth) and the gun is flat-out not designed for left-handed users.
  • Seek ambidextrous fire-selectors. I know you think you'll barely be using it, but trust me on this - a lot of sites will require you to transition from automatic to semi-automatic in-game (e.g. when entering buildings) and you want to be able to do that without shifting your grip. Reloading, which requires you to break cheek weld and move your hand(s) around anyway, is less important - so an ambidextrous magazine release is correspondingly less important than the fire selector.

I would strongly recommend you investigating:

  • Tokyo Marui HK HK416 - The only AR-15-pattern Recoil Shock with ambidextrous selectors, and an all-round great gun - one of the best AEGs on the market at the moment. Features recoil, bolt-lock, and stop-on-empty. Great out of the box and highly upgradeable. You could also look at Tokyo Marui's FNH SCAR on the basis that that also has ambidextrous selectors and is equally competent, although harder to upgrade.
  • ASG CZ Scorpion Evo 3 - A compact SMG with a built-in FCU/MOSFET and ambidextrous selectors, and also an advanced gun. Features bolt-lock, and stop-on-empty. Excellent out of the box.
  • VFC KAC SR16 - Perhaps the only fully-ambidextrous (specialised ambidextrous lower receiver, including magazine release and selectors) AEG AR-15. Does not have realistic features like recoil, bolt-lock or stop-on-empty, but is very nicely made and affordable, at least compared to the previous two. Works out of the box, but would benefit from very cheap pre-use attention to its piston and gearset.

As to the other questions:

 

 

The Tippmann M4 is divisive. The recoil is very weak, the CO2 magazines it uses are apparently dreadful (leaky) and AFAIK aren't even self-sealing - that is, if you drop the magazine from the gun, it will vent any CO2 remaining in the bulb, which is very wasteful and rapidly becomes expensive. Consistency, and consequentially range and accuracy, is very poor when using the CO2 magazines. All of the people that like the gun use it with HPA and a hose as a cheaper alternative to a DaytonaGun/Escort. Even as fans are telling you that solutions to lots of common problems can be found in Facebook support groups, they're acknowledging that the gun often has a lot of problems out-of-the-box. Tippmann's brand is very strong in paintball, but they are newcomers to airsoft and hold no particular cachet.

 

Hi Mate thanks for the reply!

 

I think I have already decided on the TM 416 :D It's so beautiful and sounds worth the additional £100 compared to VFC and Umarax.

 

Will continue to look however since not buying until mid march so keep the recommendations coming if you think i'm wrong!

 

thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own many TM next-gens now, so naturally my recommendation would be +1 on the TM 416. However with your paintball background, the Tippmann Arms M4 actually sounds pretty suitable to you, provided you already have HPA setup and know where / how to charge them, that gun has the beauty of combining Tippmann's knowledge on HPA, and it takes cheap airsoft AEG mags, while allowing you to enjoy (presumably) much harder recoil than any electric guns can offer (including that of TM, Bolt or KWA's ERG looking at the videos), and without the price tag and rarity of Daytona gun or the pain that comes with gas in mag gas blow back rifles... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own many TM next-gens now, so naturally my recommendation would be +1 on the TM 416. However with your paintball background, the Tippmann Arms M4 actually sounds pretty suitable to you, provided you already have HPA setup and know where / how to charge them, that gun has the beauty of combining Tippmann's knowledge on HPA, and it takes cheap airsoft AEG mags, while allowing you to enjoy (presumably) much harder recoil than any electric guns can offer (including that of TM, Bolt or KWA's ERG looking at the videos), and without the price tag and rarity of Daytona gun or the pain that comes with gas in mag gas blow back rifles... 

 

Yeah the tippmann is one I was looking at closely. Coming from paintball yeah i'm used to the HPA, filling, regs all that stuff but sold all my paintball equipment a while back now so dont have it anymore.

 

Been doing some thinking and I just don't want to be attached to a line again, I did it when I very first started paintballing I had a milsim paintball marker (tippmann phenom) huge mistake, was too heavy for paintball and all tourney people would destroy me. So I got myself a tourney gun and sold my phenom and never regretted it.

 

However I think airsoft would be a completely different game if i'm attached to a hpa via line. The mags with co2 are ok but I assume events are just like paintball events and you go out with as much ammo as possible. So really need a hi-cap and the only way you can hi-cap on the tippmann is hpa right?

 

So yeah, Tippmann m4 = hpa, a decent hpa is about £120, restricts my movement and will probably be a big disadvantage just like in paintball. 

 

Thanks for your reply!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In which case, as I mentioned, my vote would be with a next-gen gun, the slightly cheaper options are the non 416 models, namely the SOPMOD and Socom :) For £250-400, Echigoya (in Japan) sells the Socom M4 model for $460 (or SOPMOD CQBR for $490) including free shipping, so you'd only be paying the ransom custom charge at 20%, making it still below £400 with some spare to spend on mags and stuff :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In which case, as I mentioned, my vote would be with a next-gen gun, the slightly cheaper options are the non 416 models, namely the SOPMOD and Socom :) For £250-400, Echigoya (in Japan) sells the Socom M4 model for $460 (or SOPMOD CQBR for $490) including free shipping, so you'd only be paying the ransom custom charge at 20%, making it still below £400 with some spare to spend on mags and stuff :)

 

You recommend those m4 over the TM 416? or you recommending those over the 416?

 

I do not mind finding the extra money to buy the TM if it's superior weapon.

 

Thanks,

 

Edit: Damn i'm dumb, they are the TM variants right?

 

Wait double edit: They are the TM M4A1 models? How different is the M4A1 to the 416?

 

If they are the same just different look I deffo prefer the 416 way more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The features which the TM next-gen has that is relatively rare in the market is the fact that it stops firing when it's empty (which the EVO as recommended above does), has a recoil weight to give the shooting experience a little more substance, and upon re-inserting a fresh magazine, you have a hit the bolt catch to get the gun back in the game to simulate having to return the bolt on a real gun (which the EVO also has). 

 

As far as airsoft is concerned, the biggest difference between the TM next-gen M4s and 416 is the fact that the 416 has an ambidextrous selector, the only other next-gen gun that TM does with all the features mentioned above is the FN SCAR, which takes the same mags and is also ambidextrous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The features which the TM next-gen has that is relatively rare in the market is the fact that it stops firing when it's empty (which the EVO as recommended above does), has a recoil weight to give the shooting experience a little more substance, and upon re-inserting a fresh magazine, you have a hit the bolt catch to get the gun back in the game to simulate having to return the bolt on a real gun (which the EVO also has). 

 

As far as airsoft is concerned, the biggest difference between the TM next-gen M4s and 416 is the fact that the 416 has an ambidextrous selector, the only other next-gen gun that TM does with all the features mentioned above is the FN SCAR, which takes the same mags and is also ambidextrous.

 

Alright yeah, so the TM 416 is identical performance to the TM M4A1  only difference is the selector and the visual ? (that horrible m16 circle before the ris). 

 

Specifically this: http://echigoya-guns.com/guns/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=518

 

Since I prefer the visual of the 416.

 

Also can anybody tell me why echigoya has the same hk416 slightly more expensive? but seems to be no difference? http://echigoya-guns.com/guns/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=HK416D&product_id=124

 

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more expensive one is for California, because... err, because California. 

 

There are two models of the 416, the one you linked, and the Devgru model, which they're currently doing a free shipping promotion as well, so even though that is a more expensive gun, it will work out to be almost the same price by the time you've received it. 

 

One advantage of the M4 over the 416 is that there are an infinite number of accessories you could buy for it, especially regarding the handguard, which there aren't many options out there that would fit for the 416. Which... can be a good thing... for your wallet on the long run. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more expensive one is for California, because... err, because California. 

 

There are two models of the 416, the one you linked, and the Devgru model, which they're currently doing a free shipping promotion as well, so even though that is a more expensive gun, it will work out to be almost the same price by the time you've received it. 

 

One advantage of the M4 over the 416 is that there are an infinite number of accessories you could buy for it, especially regarding the handguard, which there aren't many options out there that would fit for the 416. Which... can be a good thing... for your wallet on the long run. 

 

Cool I shall do more pondering and try to find a handguard that can fit a m4a1 which doesnt have that horrible circle. (can not be hard right? :D haha)

 

also could you like me to the Devgru deal? the only one i can find is $599. Also does all prices include shipping? because I can for example add m4a1 to the cart which is $490 and it will take me to payment at $490. where does shipping get paid? or etc.

 

thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool I shall do more pondering and try to find a handguard that can fit a m4a1 which doesnt have that horrible circle. (can not be hard right? :D haha)

 

also could you like me to the Devgru deal? the only one i can find is $599. Also does all prices include shipping? because I can for example add m4a1 to the cart which is $490 and it will take me to payment at $490. where does shipping get paid? or etc.

 

thanks!

 

You will be after a free float rail then.  That doesnt have the horrible circle aka the delta ring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://echigoya-guns.com/guns/index.php?route=product/category&path=62

 

All the guns under this page have free shipping. 

 

*although I have to be really boring and mention... UKARA, have you familiarise yourself with that chapter of this hobby?

 

Unfortunately so. Got it covered, however airsoft does not make it easy for longtime paintballers to join the sport without being ripped off at punter sites. sigh. Don't get me started.

 

Thanks for info tho. 

 

That would be £470 including 20% for customs which is about 80 more than the m4a1.

 

I will prob go for the m4a1 since i can change the ris to free float and then have more flexibility in future because more m4a1 attachments right? :D epic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before looking at the dtw/a&ktw go to the forum topic regarding them its 39 pages of does part B fit gun X. PTW, CTW, DTW should be treated like STDs'an incurable money pit.

TM Recoil are good enough for Travis Haley they are good enough for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a faulty logic, but if you want to go that route, i know SF people who also airsoft (and a lot more than travis haley), and they use PTW.

And i agree that the PTW platform is way more expensive than AEG, but parts have gotten cheaper, and it's still more about knowledge than money :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.