swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The Uzi is one the most simplistic guns around and KWC replicates that nicely. The gun itself is quite surprisingly nice, overall very durable and runs on Co2. My first plan was to 3d model the body but I've contacted couple of companies willing to 3d scan it instead. CNC milling such part would be very expensive and also stamping it like the real one in such small quantities... So I'm planning to 3d print it. Now the "anyone interested" part. Who'd be interested in showering me with money to get one? A simple market study. I am hoping to cover my costs and make these on order with little to none in the storage. Maybe, who knows. I've planned two "kits" One consisting of body and pistol grip. The basics for cost efficiency and full kit with steel bolt, backplate/stock-hinge, outer barrel, etc. All except stock, RS uzi stocks are cheaper than I could make em. Individual components should be easy to make separately too. Friend of mine has been whining me to make a side-cocker too. 3d scanning wasn't as expensive as I imagined. After that it takes few tweaks with Solidworks to fix couple of cracks and she's ready to be proto'ed. Only thing I'm worried about is the price of the steel print. This is more of a "proof of concept" than anything but I'm aiming for fully functional and marketable item. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't understand what you are saying here? On the one hand you want money to buy something? Then you are trying to sell something 3D printed? Isn't there already a steel kit for the KWC Mini UZI ? Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I think the steel kits are just for G&P. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 "I'm making a steel kit. Who wants to buy one" There's a metal kit for KSC/KWA M11 made by G&P I believe. There's a Guarder made aluminium kit for KWC. I'm spending some cash to make this, just asking if someone might be interested in buying one at some point. Not made for "profits" and most likely only limited amount. I don't want a single coin until I've built the first set. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Isn't there already a steel kit for the KWC Mini UZI ? There's no steel Mini UZI kit on the market; there are aluminium RA-Tech/Guarder Mini UZI kits, and there are steel G&P MAC-11 kits, but there's no steel Mini UZI. Only thing I'm worried about is the price of the steel print. I think we need to know what that price is. If it's $20, then sure. If it's $2000, then probably not. What will the strength of a 3D-printed receiver be like? It's obviously going to be a lot weaker than the stamped receiver of the real thing, and probably weaker than the stamped aluminium RA-Tech/Guarder kit too, but will it be strong enough to withstand play? What will it weigh? I'd also say that it'll almost certainly cheaper to purchase more RS parts than it will be to 3D-print them; if you can 3D-print a steel grip frame for less than $19.95 I will literally eat my hat; given that a whole lower receiver assembly is $75.00 I reckon you'll be best off focusing on the upper receiver. Seems like it might be worth talking to GRIM! about how his UZIs were constructed. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Some say real lower fits. Looking at pictures not far off. EDIT: Confirmed by couple ppl, RS lower can be made but needs lots of work. Some trigger bits are drop-in compatible. 3d printing has its perks and issues. Durability won't be an issue, surface detail might be a bit "rough" but good when painted. Not sure how other coatings react. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Going by Shapeways prices and using some very rough calculations they would cost at least $500 I think. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Going by Shapeways prices and using some very rough calculations they would cost at least $500 I think. I was kinda worried the steel might be a bit pricey. I'm trying to find a local maker for it. Due to few nasty details stamping and CNC are out of the question. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I wonder if it might be easier to approach people like RA-Tech and see if there is any interest in them taking it on? Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Since when has Ra-tech taken on projects from someone? This might just be their caliber but overall Ra-tech would be the last I'd ask. Horrible junk, cheapest material, seemingly no improvements past first release and huge prices. One point also is that "anyone" could do this. I'd also like to add, if I am to sell any, I will release any and all 3d models to everyone once I've gotten "my own out of it" Anyone can mod them to their liking and print it at their local shop in the future. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 I don't know. It can't help to ask to see if a small scale company would be interested in bringing one to market. I used RA-Tech as an example. I suppose people like Angry Gun too? If you pitch it to a company that already makes/orders the manufacturing/has some link with the actual factory you might get somewhere at a sensible cost. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Due to few nasty details stamping and CNC are out of the question. Why, exactly? An UZI flat is $64; it seems to me that if you were legally adventurous you could churn out 5 KWC-compatible receivers for ~$150 each. I take it the biggest problem is legal? Since when has Ra-tech taken on projects from someone? This might just be their caliber but overall Ra-tech would be the last I'd ask. RA-Tech OEM'd the aluminium UZI kits for Guarder, so presumably they have the stamps necessary to produce and bend up Uzi flats (unless they're case, CBA to get mine out and look at it). Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Real steel uzis and clones are made by the millions. RS body won't fit without extra components and needs LOTS of modding. Bending the body to its final stage might just be the most complex and demanding part of the process. Can be done DIY but takes time = low cost efficiency. Or is made with proper machine and in huge numbers = high cost efficiency. Making the body from say, three plates and welding them together would be "simple" but I have no on-demand access to a welder. 3d printing is the easiest solution for this. Legal wise I'd prefer to avoid all RS parts of gun so similar to airsoft model. Cost of 3d printing varies also quite a lot. Story goes Shapeways is far from the cheapest. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Plus they don't like gun stuff irc. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Plus they don't like gun stuff irc. That's not hard to go around Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 For some stuff sure, but if you're printing Uzi receivers that might put up a flag or two lol Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Maybe it's part of a vacuum cleaner Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Ha. Yeah. Maybe if it was in it's flat, sheet form but one ready to be fitted looks pretty gun like. Even a non gun person would pick up on it I would have thought. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Keep in mind that printed steel from Shapeways isn't any more durable than typical extruded plastic. It's merely steel powder that's glued together instead of the more expensive steel sintering which can also be considered a form of printing. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 The body itself is under no stress what so ever. The recoil hits the backplate and even that has a mighty fine working spring-loaded recoil-buffer. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Other than the fact the real one has a steel receiver why exactly would you want a relatively fragile 3D printed steel receiver over a decent stamped and folded aluminium one that'll cost you far less? It's not like steel is steel is steel, there are oodles of different grades and if you only want a steel receiver for the percieved realism of it being steel why bother when neither the material grade or manufacturing process will be at all close to how the real things are made, in realism terms I'd rank the Guarder kit above anything 3D printed due to the manufacturing process, even if the material is 'wrong'. Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Keep in mind that printed steel from Shapeways isn't any more durable than typical extruded plastic. It's merely steel powder that's glued together instead of the more expensive steel sintering which can also be considered a form of printing. That's not entirely true, it starts off with the glue, then the glue is "replaced" by brass / bronze, so it's closer to being soldered together than glued together, I tried and there was no way I could snap the parts in half where as plastic equivalent has broke before, the steel from Shapeways cuts and threads similar to steel, much harder work than brass. That said... 3D printing a originally stamped steel body is just... no, it'll be so much heavier than the real one, and being externally so similar to a real Uzi (considering a real uzi body was modified to fit the KWC with apparently not much effort), it just seems bad practice to attempt to circumvent Shapeways to have them print it. Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Real MINI-uzi body fitted into KWC? I was under the impression "mini" version body never has been done... Are there decently priced "ready to go" uzi bodies for sale anywhere? If not, i may have to give that flat one a go. Just not sure i have the means to bend it at the exact correct spots. Also need to check if its legal to buy one and fit it to a toy gun. If painted/coated (maybe brushed and sanded first) the 3D printed body is very much like the stamped one. What little ive seen printed steel, its VERY sturdy. It may not be as sturdy as CNC'd or stamped but is far stronger than any cast alu based material. 3D printing was my "first choise" since its aviable and the body could be made from start to finish with it and little to no modding needed to fit it. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 There seem to be lots of reaaaaaally cheap repair kits out there. Aside from welding, I'm not sure of the rest of the work required. Might be a good starting point? http://www.theflatspot.net/uzi--mini-uzi--receiver-repair-flat.html Link to post Share on other sites
swatti Posted October 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 There seem to be lots of reaaaaaally cheap repair kits out there. Aside from welding, I'm not sure of the rest of the work required. Might be a good starting point? http://www.theflatspot.net/uzi--mini-uzi--receiver-repair-flat.html That particular kit is utterly useless. It's missing the entire front, both sights, etc. A FULL body like that, ready to be welded would be great. Link to post Share on other sites
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