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Low Profile fan goggles idea + need help with electronics design


Horsem4n

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so, i am looking for a lowprofile set of goggles, but i still want antifooooooog. so, i am working in my mind on how to get it done and i think i have an idea.

 

i looked into micro fans and while there are some really small conventional fans, i dont think theyd move enough air to make it worth it. plus, id have to attach them to the frame of the goggles making some extra requirements to install the smallest, realistic fans: 15x15x4.5mm. i found some as small as 10x10x2mm, but they move so little air, im not sure even 3 per lens would work very well. and then there was the issue of power and wiring them all together.

 

so i think i have an idea with micro blower motors like this:

cyclonekit.jpg

 

but 20x20mm instead of 50x50mm and having one for each lens.

 

power wise, the fans im looking at are rated 5.5v with a draw of like .03A

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/20mm-mini-fan-low-noise-5v_60303723630.html?spm=a2700.7724857.29.57.mNKPAr

 

im thinking of attaching the fans to a battery pack on the back of your head, on the retention strap, with tubing going to the lenses.

 

now, i BELIEVE, that the dual 25mm fan kits from FANZ kit also are rated for 5.5v each and run for a long time off of one 9v battery.

if i were to wire both fans to one 9v battery, what should i need? ive already got a plan for a hard case for the battery with a built in power switch much like the FANZ kit, but is there anything else? im thinking of getting this built with cheap stuff first (like guarder/daisy C4 goggles and a battery pack from the FANZ kits), but i ultimately want to build kits to sell and need to find a source for the cases and probably make the electronics myself.

i have a feeling though that the guys at FANZ just buy the battery cases as is, with the switch and electronics already there. they never seem to value them with i get broken units replaced. they just want the fans back.

 

what do you think guys? just something less cumbersome than a huge 50mm fan and can pump air into 2 separate lenses.

 

EDIT: i think i found the cases for the FANZ kits. they look pretty much exactly like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9v-Battery-Holder-Case-with-ON-OFF-Toggle-Switch-9-Volt-Box-Pack-Cover-USA-/151262411781?hash=item2337f13c05:g:Hh8AAOSwajVURTNI

 

EDIT: FANZ do say that they use a 12v motor for the single fan kits. i dont know how electronics like this work. should i find 12v fans? would the two 5.5v fans both receive 9v and be damaged? should i run it on 3-4 AAs? these are the things i dont know and could use help with.

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I have a set of ESS and Oakley fan goggles with prescription inserts in both, they work well but they still fog up if you are the sort of person who heats up higher than the average person.

 

I was running my ESS set on a CQB game on Sunday, there was only slight fogging but collections of condensation which turned into water was an issue which I didn't experience before. 

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You can minimise fogging by choosing your clothing just a tiny bit chilly.

Oh, and try to ventilate your head and neck/throat area as best as you can while protecting it.

Mesh cap, Boonie with mesh top, ventilated helmet help wonders.

My ESS Turbofans take care of the rest. 

 

As for mesh, I dislike mesh in CQB since it darkens the image. I can't have that.

 

What are you using at the moment as head/eyewear? Perhaps we can help that way.

I was also thinking of modding the helmet to cool the head with additional pipe for the glasses if needed?

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I have a set of ESS and Oakley fan goggles with prescription inserts in both, they work well but they still fog up if you are the sort of person who heats up higher than the average person.

 

I was running my ESS set on a CQB game on Sunday, there was only slight fogging but collections of condensation which turned into water was an issue which I didn't experience before. 

 

I concur with you. People with four eyes like me need more powerful fans to keep lens on both goggles and glasses from fogging. I used to run Revision goggles with built-in fans and still got fogging issues from time to time. After I switched to goggles with Cyclone Mike external fan (http://www.actionfans.net/), I haven't have any issues at all. In fact, I have been using the setup to do orienteering events every month, which involve more running than typical local Airsoft games, with great success.

 

Note: You can't see the air hose and fan in the picture below because they are routed inside the helmet.

 

12112165_10153479300550865_6805828228692

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Horsem4n was probably thinking about doing something like this: http://www.wpairsoft.com/f19/goggle-fan-mod-using-action-fans-cyclone-mike-5753-2.html#post35999

 

Pictures below were my first attempt at modification. I made a lot more changes to shrink the size and improve reliability afterward. Currently, I'm running a Photive BOLT 9000mAh USB battery pack (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KQ1IVT0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00) to power both my Cyclone Mike Fan and Garmin Virb X camera, which has more than enough juice for 8 hours of continuous usage.

 

Helmet+Cooling+Mod09.jpg

Helmet+Cooling+Mod07.jpg

Helmet+Cooling+Mod10.jpgActionFan09.jpgHelmet+Cooling+Mod05_Correction.JPG

Helmet+Cooling+Mod06.jpg

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I have a set of ESS and Oakley fan goggles with prescription inserts in both, they work well but they still fog up if you are the sort of person who heats up higher than the average person.

 

I was running my ESS set on a CQB game on Sunday, there was only slight fogging but collections of condensation which turned into water was an issue which I didn't experience before. 

 

I run ESS turbofans as well. condensation kills me! In the summer when its dry they work great but now They sre worse than just regular shooters glasses.

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Currently, i run a modified valken Mi-3 full face mask with a FANZ kit. I had, for the last 4, maybe 5 years a set of ESS turbofans. but the battery box gave out on my recently and i had modified the frames early on to fit over my glasses, so my lifetime warranty is void. but i dont want them anymore anyway. the rest of my head wear consists of ball caps and knit hats. i dont wear helmets or balaclavas (except in the winter, i wear a cold gear balaclava).

 

i want to get a low profile set of goggles. something no bigger than a set of shooting glasses. but i have to make it work for me, which includes more reliable and more convenient antifoooooog measures, a full gasket seal, and hopefully, provisions for RX lenses.

im looking at sets of goggles with both gaskets and RX inserts that work in conjunction with one another. im looking at ANZI rated shooting glasses that fit over prescription lenses (thinking of adding foam to them). and im looking at higher end options that would require me to start buying contact lenses. 

 

but all in all here, i know that compact, gasket sealed goggles fooooooog. so im trying to think of a solution that would work really well under most conditions. i have come across some cool, compact tech and im formulating ideas.

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Here's an idea may not be kosher in the US but . Assuming you have a poly-carbonate prescription lens in your insert (not that I've experienced any broken bbs come through with enough force to even break a normal lens) you could have a mesh lens in front as the insert would block anything that could potentially come through anyway. Then your only having one lens to stop from steaming up and also have increased air flow. 

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This has been on my todo list for a long time. Actionfan product is basicly what i want, but i think it's a bit too "cheap" in it's construction.

 

Ideas:

-Fit it in a MS2000 shell, fan, battery and everything. Make it run on 1 or 2  18650 cells (since they're so good these days).

-External battery plug, run whatever lipo you want with it.

-Big fan that pushes a lot of air with low noise.

-Y end with movable clips, adjust exactly where the airflow should go.

-Deeper Y end for NVG compatability.

 

I basicly won't even bother using NVG without a fan setup. I had a 80mm CPU fan mounted on top of my NVG mount the last time i did. Worked really well, did not get in the way. I would love to have the same in a tacticool package permanently mounted on the helmet.

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Here's an idea may not be kosher in the US but . Assuming you have a poly-carbonate prescription lens in your insert (not that I've experienced any broken bbs come through with enough force to even break a normal lens) you could have a mesh lens in front as the insert would block anything that could potentially come through anyway. Then your only having one lens to stop from steaming up and also have increased air flow. 

this is an option that would work at most fields and one of my more frequent players use this idea and it works for him. the problem though, is that its not kosher for milsim events. i asked the guy who handles emails for OLCMSS and he said that mesh+shooting glasses is no good for the events.

 

currently, im looking at this fan + two 9v batteries:

http://www.amazon.com/Blowers-20mm-pressure-Micro-blower/dp/B00HKJOORO/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&dpID=41i-B%2BJ5V7L&dpPl=1&keywords=micro%20blower%20%2020mm&pi=SX200_QL40&qid=1446645801&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1

 

its pretty gud:

 

 

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That is a really cool blower. However from the data sheet the flow rate is only 1 litre per minute.  I have been playing with designs for a set of forced ventilation goggles for several years. From experience you need a much much higher volume of air to be shifted. Something in excess of 100 litre per minute at least to give enough air flow to prevent, or at least reduce fogging. 

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this is an option that would work at most fields and one of my more frequent players use this idea and it works for him. the problem though, is that its not kosher for milsim events. i asked the guy who handles emails for OLCMSS and he said that mesh+shooting glasses is no good for the events.

 

Still an option if you use a goggle with easily swapped out lenses. In combination with the fan should work pretty good too.

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That is a really cool blower. However from the data sheet the flow rate is only 1 litre per minute.  I have been playing with designs for a set of forced ventilation goggles for several years. From experience you need a much much higher volume of air to be shifted. Something in excess of 100 litre per minute at least to give enough air flow to prevent, or at least reduce fogging. 

the current fans i'm using in my voluminous valken goggles move around 20-25 L/min and im using 2. so that's 50 max L/min and they work just fine. The one in ESS turbofan goggles move even less than that and they worked well for me until the battery case stopped working. so they need nowhere near 100l/min. now, while i know 1L/min is a lot lower, im mainly making them for much lower volume goggles. 

also though, it can force air at a much higher pressure, 100x as much as the fans i currently have. that might count for something. the prototype will cost me about $50 to put together, so i think it's worth a try.

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so, would the two 5.5v fans both receive 9v and be damaged? should i run it on 3-4 AAs? these are the things i dont know and could use help with.

You can either connect the two fans in series, and power them with 9V, which would make them a bit underpowered, or connect them in parallel, then power them with 3 AAs to the same effect, or with 4 AAs for full power.

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the current fans i'm using in my voluminous valken goggles move around 20-25 L/min and im using 2. so that's 50 max L/min and they work just fine. The one in ESS turbofan goggles move even less than that and they worked well for me until the battery case stopped working. so they need nowhere near 100l/min. now, while i know 1L/min is a lot lower, im mainly making them for much lower volume goggles. 

also though, it can force air at a much higher pressure, 100x as much as the fans i currently have. that might count for something. the prototype will cost me about $50 to put together, so i think it's worth a try.

 

There are a number of variables which affect the effectiveness of an anti-fogging system: 

  • The ambient humidity and air temp out side the goggles (the weather/environment)
  • The humidity and air temp inside the goggles (how hot and sweaty you / your face is)
  • Whether or not you need glasses or inserts inside the goggles.
  • The airflow through the goggles.

The weather / environment has a massive effect. Some places you wont suffer fogging cause it is too hot and dry. A cold rainy day is a different matter. Woodland has higher humidity than open spaces or indoors. Which country / latitude will affect the ambient environment.

 

How sweaty your face is makes a huge difference. This is entirely down to the individual. Some folks never fog cause they are fortunate enough not to suffer from sweaty faces. Me, I have a sweaty face, particularly around the eyes it seems. As others have said also how hot you and your head are affects fogging.  Also exercise level. Have you been running around? Hiding in a bush?

 

If you need to wear glasses or optical inserts then you are going to impede the airflow through the goggles and also bring a layer of glass/plastic closer to your face which can increase the fog problem. Getting airflow around / behind / across all the surfaces can be tricky to achieve effectively.

 

The object of the exercise is to shift the dew point within the goggles so that rather than making it possible for water in the air / humidity to condense out you dry out the in-goggle air. You can do this in a number of ways:

 

  • Heat the lenses some how (like heated windscreens / wing mirrors) 
  • Heat the airflow to shift the dew point. (Warm it so that it can hold more water with a heater element)
  • Dry the incoming air out using a drying agent (silica gel / molecular sieve)
  • Increase the airflow / volume of air ( to shift the humid air you are generating in side the goggles and dry out any condensation by sheer volume of air passing through)

The first 3 arent hugely practical: The first needs some expensive transparent heater technology, the second needs tiny heater, electronic control and a more substantial power supply to run the heaters for a full day of gaming, The silica gel idea would need a large bulky cannister to allow the air through it at a high enough flow rate to be effective. This leaves us with airflow as the easiest solution.

 

Now while I agree that the pressure of the piezo pump is impressive the flow rate is still tiny and the flow rate is the driving parameter for an effective solution. It may be possible to use an entrained air design, pump the air from the piezo pump through the centre of an open orifice so that it pulls air through the orifice with the high pressure air. However the pump is still only delivering 1 lpm which is a tiny volume. It is an interesting design idea and may well be worth further investigation. However it isn't a straight forward design challenge and is likely to bulk up the tiny piezo pump.

 

Also I don't know if you have ever had an eye test where they test the pressure of your eyeball but blowing air close to an eye is uncomfortable and causes you to involuntarily close your eye. Much like narrowing your eyes if you are riding a bicycle at high speed or a motorcycle without eye protection. Personally I wouldn't want high pressure air blowing anywhere near my eyes. That may just be a personal choice.

 

Another consideration is noise. Any air flow system will generate noise from the air turbulence caused by transitions and sharp corners in the system. The source of the airflow will also generate noise. All fans generate noise by chopping the air with the fan blades, from the bearings / motor spinning and vibration. Modern fans can be really quiet. Some of the fans I have been trying have noise figures down to 17dBA. However this is a lab tested value not an in use values and you will get a higher figure in reality.  The real problem with the noise isnt other people hearing your ventilation system. People stood next to me while waiting for a game to start sometimes ask "What's the whistling/whiring/whining noise.. is it coming from you?"  But people a pace away cant hear the fan. The fan wont give my position away if I am trying to be sneaky unless someone is right on top of me.The noise problem, for me, is that the ambient noise level "in" my head / close to my ears is high enough that I can miss people sneaking up on me. This is a mix of fan noise, airflow noise and vibration (through bone conduction from the fan system on the back of my head). I am not saying it is a loud noise. It is just loud enough to drown out low volume noises near me.

 

So for my environment (UK woodland sites all weathers) , my personal environment (sweaty faced goggles plus inserts wearer) and my game play (sneaking around in bushes trying to be quiet) I am continuing to work on a fan assisted system with a higher flow rate  :)

 

Just as an after thought I currently run an Arduino based data logger of my own design on my goggles which monitors temperature and humidity of the incoming air, the "in goggle environment" temperature and humidity, the time and the "fog state" (manually by a switch when the goggles fog or clear). I also wear a heart rate monitor so I can correlate exercise level / heart rate with the goggle data. So I am slowly building a comprehensive data set for what goes on in my goggles. The goal being to build an automated control system. The fan is powered off a lipo battery pack with a variable fan speed control. This will get integrated in to the monitoring system in a future iteration. Also next version with have a 3d printed fan housing and goggle inserts.

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Just as an after thought I currently run an Arduino based data logger of my own design on my goggles which monitors temperature and humidity of the incoming air, the "in goggle environment" temperature and humidity, the time and the "fog state" (manually by a switch when the goggles fog or clear). I also wear a heart rate monitor so I can correlate exercise level / heart rate with the goggle data. So I am slowly building a comprehensive data set for what goes on in my goggles. The goal being to build an automated control system. The fan is powered off a lipo battery pack with a variable fan speed control. This will get integrated in to the monitoring system in a future iteration. Also next version with have a 3d printed fan housing and goggle inserts.

 

Fantastic idea, Mike! You might want to apply for a patent as quickly as you can if there hasn't been a similar patent already. You don't even need a working prototype to get a patent. If your final product is good, you might be able make a fortune starting your own company catering for military, LE, fire fighting, as well as civilian customers, or selling your patent to big eye protection companies.

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  • 4 weeks later...

OP, I have this fan on my paintball mask. Rating of the fan is 5v dc input. I run it off of 4x AAA rechargable NiMh batteries in a radioshack battery holder with built in switch. Have it set to suck air from the goggles and out the top. Will post pics later.

http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/castle-cc-blower-sct-sv3-fan.html

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