Jump to content
Bada Bing

First Impressions: Tokyo Marui M4 MWS GBBR

Recommended Posts

Teammates one is having feeding issue. Only firing every other shot. On 144 gas.

Problem is that the 144a at current temp here is not enough pressure to cycle the bolt properly, i had the same issue but no problems with abbey ultra or green gas.  It will cycle better in the summer with 144a.  I think i will either get a spare nozzle when they become available and try using a grubscrew to make it adjustable or experiment with wider bore barrels to allow the ultra or green for blowback and still keep the power lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would assume it uses standard vsr style barrels and rubbers same as most tm but have not stripped it down yet to confirm.  I have been looking at widebore barrels and am considering a 200mm 6.23 vsr style magnus orga barrel and going by experience it will likely drop the power about 40 or so fps so hopefully enough to run at 1j with ultra or green gas but i`ll probably still have to restrict the nozzle as well.  Just waiting for spare nozzles to come out before messing with it, hopefully an adjustable option to save me any bother doing it myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what is everyone's shot capacity per gas fill on green gas/propane?  I am getting no more than 50 semi-auto shots at 67F ambient temperature.  On top of that, the magazine is VERY cold after I empty the magazine of bb's.  TM's promotional video shows it being filled and re-filled many times with no perceived cool down so is it possible the valves are designed strictly for 144 and using anything higher negatively effects shot capacity per fill?  I am no chem engineer so I am stumped...of course my ONE magazine could be a lemon...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem is that the 144a at current temp here is not enough pressure to cycle the bolt properly, i had the same issue but no problems with abbey ultra or green gas.  It will cycle better in the summer with 144a.  I think i will either get a spare nozzle when they become available and try using a grubscrew to make it adjustable or experiment with wider bore barrels to allow the ultra or green for blowback and still keep the power lower.

 

It's not just me then. Same as yourself with Abby Ultra & Green, kicks harder and picks up every shot but struggles with 144a. Mind you the start of the day it was rocking on just fine. It was only the latter part of my day it started to play up. I don't really want to mess with the barrel as the accuracy out of the box has been great so far for me so I'll leave well alone. New nozzle to mess with is going to be the way forward. Besides it's always good to have spares... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Bada Bing!  How does it fare if after you deplete the gas and re-gas?

It remains consistent even after 6 or 7 refills, magazine was cold and covered in condensation. I shot 54-55 every time, but there was a moment where I thought I got 62, but may have miss counted. You know on most gbb mags where once they're cold it diminishes the shooting capacity somewhat, this seems to cope alright. I'll test it outdoors this weekend.

 

I'm filling up for a nice long blast and continued on for a few more seconds after it sprays up around the nozzle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It remains consistent even after 6 or 7 refills, magazine was cold and covered in condensation. I shot 54-55 every time, but there was a moment where I thought I got 62, but may have miss counted. You know on most gbb mags where once they're cold it diminishes the shooting capacity somewhat, this seems to cope alright. I'll test it outdoors this weekend.

 

I'm filling up for a nice long blast and continued on for a few more seconds after it sprays up around the nozzle.

 

Thanks.  That info really does help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#1 Why are we still running flammable propellant with such a crappy temperature range? Devil Hunter's mod aka refillable CO2 should've been standard when Asian airsoft GBB maker began moving towards GBBR. It's not that difficult to hold CO2 -GHK's cylinder reservoir design is a simple solution

#2 Why haven't we begin moving towards a HPA gas-in mag system? A 3000psi should be sufficient

 

It's pretty simple - there's only a limited range of propellants that are cheap and widely available, condense into liquids at sane pressures, don't represent a significant safety hazard, and are sufficiently dense. Propane is a good solution to most of those needs, as is CO2 - arguably less so, since it condenses at much, much higher pressures and consequently needs greatly reinforced containers.

 

HPA containers are at even higher pressures; while you can buy propane in simple, cheap tins, even CO2 is shipped in steel bottles - and that's at about 800psi. HPA (at 3,000psi) requires extremely strong, frequently tested containers - and those are therefore very expensive. You could definitely have a HPA GIM gun, if you were happy with magazines that cost $200 each and had to be hydro-tested every two years.

 

I shot 54-55 every time, but there was a moment where I thought I got 62, but may have miss counted.

 

I haven't watched all of your GHK/TM review yet, but have you tried weighing the magazines both empty and completely full? Concluding that the TM is less gas efficient, as others are, may not be the whole story if the GHK magazines hold significantly more gas, as you get the usual knock-on effects of a smaller reservoir leading to more severe adiabatic cooldown.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good point PureSilver, I think I will give it a go tonight on weighing GHK M4, WE M4 and TM M4 mags empty and full to roughly determine gas capacity.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would cause the hammer to ride the bolt and still possibly fire in full auto although very inconsistently. Best solution is modifying the selector from disengaging the disconnector.

 

Thanks for your answer. Is the fire selector removeable like the WE AR15? 

Can anybody make a video?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was on a quest to get a rough idea of how much gas a WE M4, GHK M4 and TM M4 holds. So first I purged each magazine of gas, let it sit for a few minutes and then ensured no residual gas remained. Weighed each, filled each for 8 seconds, waited 2 minutes, filled again for 8 seconds, waited 2 minutes and then filled again for 8 seconds...just to make sure each was at capacity. Then weighed them again. All this was at an ambient temperature of 58F in my workshop. Before I filled each magazine, I tested the outside temperature of the magazines for what reason I am not sure  :D 

 

Anyway...results:

 

GHK M4:
Shell Temp = 64F
Empty Weight = 657g
Filled Weight = 671g
Gas Capacity = 14g

 

WE M4:
Shell Temp = 60F
Empty Weight = 374g
Filled Weight = 394g
Gas Capacity = 20g

 

TM M4:
Shell Temp = 62F
Empty Weight = 456g
Filled Weight = 464g
Gas Capacity = 12g

 

So...the TM mag holds a bit less than the GHK mag but is far less efficient on Green Gas/Propane. It seems to point to a poor gas release valve OR a very inefficient operating system that requires more gas. Also, what is interesting is the WE mag holds a TON of gas but gets the same shot per fill as a GHK mag. That explains why there are so many aftermarket gas release valves for the WE mags and ZERO for GHK mags.

 

Edited by L2E
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that's interesting. Good work

 

Upgraded valve would increase total shot count? Judging by the output valves small size, might it be compatible with aftermarket valves designed for some of their pistols?

 

The TM has very few weak shots before it depletes the gas, however on WE/GHK would slow down, chugging away till it finally stops.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ra tech has a new valve for we m4 mags that sounds interesting.

 

What about the a+ valves that are super hard to find? Did they do better for the we gas efficiency?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow that's interesting. Good work

 

Upgraded valve would increase total shot count? Judging by the output valves small size, might it be compatible with aftermarket valves designed for some of their pistols?

 

The TM has very few weak shots before it depletes the gas, however on WE/GHK would slow down, chugging away till it finally stops.

 

All assumption at this point b/c I have no idea if the valve is the problem or the operating system.  Who is going to step up and test valves from other TM GBB guns?  I only have the M4 and G17...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was on a quest to get a rough idea of how much gas a WE M4, GHK M4 and TM M4 holds. So first I purged each magazine of gas, let it sit for a few minutes and then ensured no residual gas remained.

 

Wait, did you allow it to be filled of ambient air because the nitrogen part will be largely incompressible by green gas leaving an air pocket that cannot be displaced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait, did you allow it to be filled of ambient air because the nitrogen part will be largely incompressible by green gas leaving an air pocket that cannot be displaced.

 

Yes, I filled each magazine with gas that was at room/ambient temperature which is the way it would be filled in the field.  However, I held the gas release valve for a few moments to allow the air inside the magazine to vent.  Probably didn't need to do that with the TM mag as the fill valve is designed to allow air to exit while filling with gas (or so I have been told).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.