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First Impressions: Tokyo Marui M4 MWS GBBR

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I have heard that as well for tm mags.

 

Is there a inlet valve like that that works for we mags?

 

I think the Angry Gun inlet valves do that...

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Nugent, are you sure about your calculation on the TM mag capacity? By the numbers you posted it holds 8 grams not 12...

 

WHOA!  How did I not notice that!  The measurements are correct, I just completely failed at math.  That really does change things then doesn't it...

 

dang it, I can't edit the post...

Edited by L2E
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Tiredness I guess?

 

Thought about something else, the TM mag has a long siphon tube attached to the inlet valve from bada bings magazine video.

 

I wonder, is it possible to remove or cut this off to allow more liquid propellant in the magazine?

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Tiredness I guess?

 

Thought about something else, the TM mag has a long siphon tube attached to the inlet valve from bada bings magazine video.

 

I wonder, is it possible to remove or cut this off to allow more liquid propellant in the magazine?

 

Exactly what I was thinking.  A friend suggested trying a KJW fill valve but I need to get the mag apart first to get a better idea...

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Tiredness I guess?

Thought about something else, the TM mag has a long siphon tube attached to the inlet valve from bada bings magazine video.

I wonder, is it possible to remove or cut this off to allow more liquid propellant in the magazine?

I tried pulling it off, it's really on there! I didn't fancy cutting it.

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WHOA!  How did I not notice that!  The measurements are correct, I just completely failed at math.  That really does change things then doesn't it...

 

OK, so if we take the actual figures to be:

 

GHK M4: Gas Capacity = 14g

WE M4: Gas Capacity = 20g

TM M4: Gas Capacity = 8g

 

The next question therefore has to be how many shots are we getting from each magazine? If we work that out then we can work out shots-per-gram-of-propellant, and thereby compare the relative efficiency of the platforms.

 

That said, I have to say I won't be very surprised if the TM does turn out to have merely adequate or mediocre efficiency. With a reservoir that's somewhere around half the size of the competition, simple physics demands it will suffer much more badly from adiabatic cooldown than they well, crippling the gun's efficiency.

 

ETA:

 

Thought about something else, the TM mag has a long siphon tube attached to the inlet valve from bada bings magazine video.

 

I wonder, is it possible to remove or cut this off to allow more liquid propellant in the magazine?

 

Why would removing the siphon tube affect how much liquid one can get into the magazine? The propellant is right on the edge of phase change anyway owing to the pressure/temperature it's stored at; if you hold the can over the magazine, the static fluid pressure of the liquid weighing down increases the pressure in the magazine, just like the pressure rises in a wet diving bell as it dives. That pressure rise causes the gas in the magazine to condense into liquid; the repeated long-fill procedure L2E employed should therefore have completely filled the magazine with liquid, siphon tube or not.

Edited by PureSilver
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Some very interesting information from a friend that just got his TM M4 GBB and tested with both Duster and Green Gas:

 

Quote below:

"I got the TM M4 today and I decided to run some tests using duster gas and the results are very interesting:

1) I tested the TM M4 with Dust-Off bought from Costco and room temperature is around 70ºF.

2) The magazine weight is 453g when empty and 473g when fully filled. Which means I was able to fill 20g Costco gas in it.

3) The FPS is very consistent: 303 fps (.23g BB) the first shot and it maintained ~300fps all the way to the end. (Shot with green gas = 330 fps)

4) I test the lock back every 10 shots. For the first 80 shots it always locks back. And it did not lock back at 90 shots. So I took the magazine and warmed it with my palms for ~15 seconds, then it was able to lock back until 110 shots.

5) I emptied the magazine around 140+ shots

6) I noticed when I am charging the magazine with 100% green gas, it took only 5 - 8 seconds to start spewing out white smoke. I was able to only shoot 30-40 shots with 100% green gas."

 

Fill valve limiting green gas liquid?

 

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Propane/green gas has a lower boiling point than 134a. If you filled them in the same TM style spewing mag, propane will have more of the vapor wanting to come out vs 134a. You can fill them with more liquid if the outside temperature were a lot colder. This is why I put an o-ring on all my TM mags so they can hold a bit more green gas when filling.

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Here in the video it seems thats the magazine holds round about 30 gramms gas. 

 

In comparison with the kjw m4 which holds 49 gramms.

 

 

1:42 - 2:15

 

Both filled with 144a?

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I took the long silver tube off the fill valve and now I am getting a minimum of 4 mags from one fill of green gas/propane.  In addition, when filling the mag it doesn't begin to spew gas until 30 seconds or so instead of 8 seconds.  Somehow that tube stops green gas/propane from filling completely.

 

Can someone explain this phenomenon?

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Liquid only fills until it reaches the tube like a straw because of the trapped pocket above it. Now test fps consistency because one of the reasons TM does this is to allow for a larger expansion chamber which in theory makes up for consistency. The opposite of this would be an over filled WE mag where the first couple shots spew liquid propellant.

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Excellent work. I tried this and got three loads of bbs to a single fill. However when fully gassed up it did begin to hiss from the release valve, tightened up a little and it's fine.

 

Edit: Full auto suffers from this mod though, the whole action slows down as a result of the over gas pressure. Mine shot out nearly two magazines on auto but reduced rate of fire.

Edited by Bada Bing

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You can't over pressurize a magazine by having more of the same liquid propellant in it. The pressure is relative to temperature and will be more or less the same if it's full or nearly empty. The problem is that the phase change from liquid to gas is less efficient as a completely full mag will have the surface of the liquid propellant change to gas first to work the system and this needs time whereas if it were filled with the extended stem, the vapor that has already expanded in the pocket does the work and is inherently stable.

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Liquid only fills until it reaches the tube like a straw because of the trapped pocket above it. Now test fps consistency because one of the reasons TM does this is to allow for a larger expansion chamber which in theory makes up for consistency. The opposite of this would be an over filled WE mag where the first couple shots spew liquid propellant.

 

I will test the FPS consistency tonight, hopefully I am not going in the wrong direction by removing the silver tube.  However, I didn't get any puffs/clouds of gas on the first few shots.

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Excellent work. I tried this and got three loads of bbs to a single fill. However when fully gassed up it did begin to hiss from the release valve, tightened up a little and it's fine.

 

Edit: Full auto suffers from this mod though, the whole action slows down as a result of the over gas pressure. Mine shot out nearly two magazines on auto but reduced rate of fire.

 

Auto seemed fine in first mag or so but after that I was just shooting semi.  With about a second between each shot I got over 4 mags...no idea of FPS during that test as it was just a quick test before I turned in for the night.

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alright awesome work guys! My MWS should be here tomorrow.... This will likely be used by my buddy who's not really into airsoft, but will go with me anyways. Just need a weapon that I don't need to baby sit... The GHK was almost there, t'il the nozzle started chopping bb's.

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Did a quick FPS consistency test on the TM M4 magazine with the silver tube removed from inside the magazine filled with Propane. The outside temperature was 50F and ambient work shop temperature was 60F.


For the first 140 rounds, the maximum FPS deviation was 10FPS but typical deviation was around 5FPS and it was not unusual to see shot to shot with zero deviation.


After 140 rounds, the recoil and FPS began to drop in which 162 was the very last shot. I would expect better results in typical Texas weather (85F+) and I am VERY happy with the performance of the magazine.


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alright awesome work guys! My MWS should be here tomorrow.... This will likely be used by my buddy who's not really into airsoft, but will go with me anyways. Just need a weapon that I don't need to baby sit... The GHK was almost there, t'il the nozzle started chopping bb's.

Change bbs

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just got my MWS today.. damn Red Wolf Super glued anywhere it mentions the word "colt". I'll bust out the acetone tomorrow when I get the chance and clean up the trades. However, I did get it @ 418USD OTD. Just placed an order for 5 mags on Ehobby. This will be my "borrow" gun for my friends. I do notice the overall feel of the gun doesn't feel as rugged as the GHK's, but the performance I'm sure will be a lot better. 

 

This gun, (compared to my GHK's and all my other builds/collection) feels like a toy compared to everything else. It's probably the lack of steel parts that makes it feel a bit different. But like everyone else mentions, marui will probably get the MOST support out of any other system.

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