LordElpus Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 didn't stop Systema from selling a lot of PTWs and they were well known for needing a lot of tech tweaks and part replacements to be usable in the early years Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 That's a hell of a price point. I understand you have a large investment to recoup but I think you'll struggle to shift stock at $1,250USD a gun. At that price it's cheaper than a Systema PTW and is more functionally realistic. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Hasn't Systema lost a large section of the market due to GBBR and TM Recoil though? Sure, there's still customers for that high, high end stuff but significantly less these days. Basing your sales strategy similar to early Systema in a market flooded with decent alternatives seems a bit risky. Link to post Share on other sites
Grimmese Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I think 1250 bucks is an affordable price, so I'm happy with it. Of course i don't mind if it goes cheaper . And also curious about the price for the mags. Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Well, for those who can afford a PTW, it is an affordable price, hope the gun is more reliable and better performing than a stock ptw OOTB. I will personally wait for in depth reviews before spending so much money Link to post Share on other sites
blobface Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'd get one if it's at the range of 800 to 1400 bucks. It's a worthy replacement for next gens Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yes it's far from cheap but I can't imagine it was ever going to be, not with the R&D costs involved. Systema have been entirely stagnant for almost the entirety of their existence. I did weigh up a possilbe PTW purchase in the back of my mind purely for the fact there's such a range of super high quality receiver sets and other conversion kits available that you don't see being made for normal AR AEGs. However the astronomical costs involved only to end up with a non-recoiling, non-blowback, proprietary magazine gun with a dead-feeling bolt catch when the TMs I've got are already bloody good... no thanks. Much more interested in paying less than a PTW for a gun that actually looks like a real M4 rather than screaming airsoft aesthetically, that's before even getting to the uber-realistic bolt carrier and the recoil/sound/manual of arms etc. The wait for some actual user feedback is painful. Link to post Share on other sites
JCheeseright Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Going back to the video just posted... is that a VSR hop bucking? Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 No, WA m4 gbb. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Hasn't Systema lost a large section of the market due to GBBR and TM Recoil though? Sure, there's still customers for that high, high end stuff but significantly less these days. Basing your sales strategy similar to early Systema in a market flooded with decent alternatives seems a bit risky. Systema PTW stuff seems virtually non-existant these days, I've been trying to get hold of a new stock Systema cylinder unit recently and all that is available at most shops are the clone parts, all the traditional PTW and PTW parts stockists bar Redwolf HK that I've looked at have dropped actual Systema products entirely, however given the price and lack of bells and whistles compared to newer GBBrs, EBBs and PTW clones at a much lower price that's no big suprise. Link to post Share on other sites
JCheeseright Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 No, WA m4 gbb. That's disappointing, far fewer upgrade options. Though in a way I'm just glad is not completely proprietary. hopup will be what makes or breaks this thing for me, if it can't lift a BB and send it straight for a decent distance then there's no point buying it! Link to post Share on other sites
Isamu Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 If it is a WA type hop up, I think there are some upgrade chambers to use AEG barrels and buckings, so it should enable flat/R/Sugru/whatever hoping, so i'm not worried on that department, only on the high power one, would like to see some 450FPS builds =) Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Had an AEG compatible hop unit in a WA system gun many many years ago, had issues with hopping much too much if anything. Long as this thing takes anything a WA spec replica would; golden. Though if that's the case they really ought to just include that style of hop out the box. Having to adjust your hop via the outside of the barrel is a general annoyance and really limits forend options, even if you have to go in with an allen key with the bolt locked back using the AEG spec units at least you can throw on any freefloat tube you like. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Also, microdeans for the connectors? That's an odd choice, given they're only rated for about 20A, and a normal AEG draws about that on semi auto. Link to post Share on other sites
Wingmann Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Systema PTW stuff seems virtually non-existant these days, I've been trying to get hold of a new stock Systema cylinder unit recently and all that is available at most shops are the clone parts, all the traditional PTW and PTW parts stockists bar Redwolf HK that I've looked at have dropped actual Systema products entirely, however given the price and lack of bells and whistles compared to newer GBBrs, EBBs and PTW clones at a much lower price that's no big suprise. www.powair6.com They have got complete Systema cylinders and cylinder cases too. Link to post Share on other sites
Grimmese Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 Also, microdeans for the connectors? That's an odd choice, given they're only rated for about 20A, and a normal AEG draws about that on semi auto. I think its enough becaouse the buffer spring is much weaker than a simple aeg spring. And also 20A? thats sounds like too much for me for airsoft gun Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted December 10, 2016 Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 I think its enough becaouse the buffer spring is much weaker than a simple aeg spring. And also 20A? thats sounds like too much for me for airsoft gun Get a multimeter and a stock AEG. Link to post Share on other sites
Horsem4n Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Some stock guns can draw upwards of 60A if they're bad, but even tuned guns can regularly hit 20-25A in semi auto depending on spring/gear ratio/motor. But, it's my understanding that this gun will be hitting maybe 14RPS. That's probably got some high torque gears of the highest ratio seen in airsoft (higher than 32:1?) And probably a good 22tpa high torque motor. I'd imagine amp draw would be pretty low. Link to post Share on other sites
Grimmese Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Ok, but at this system it depends on how strong/weak the buffer spring, if its weak it don't need high power Link to post Share on other sites
JCheeseright Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Still needs to pull back the piston spring though. Link to post Share on other sites
Grimmese Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I think not becaouse the spring is inside in the Bolt carrier, and there is a pin or something like that what is holdig the piston, when the BCG cycles, thats why work the air cocking by hand. Link to post Share on other sites
uscmCorps Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 I wonder if it is pre-cocking the gun. Kind of like a PSG1. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Did any of the footage released show far give any clues to how the BCG is all put together and works? Honestly cannot remember. Seems to make the most sense in this case to have what would be a conventional buffer spring for the bolt carrier as well as a piston spring. Hold back the piston when the BCG cycles, release it on trigger press to fire BB, then cycle working parts after to re-cock and feed a new 'round'. Otherwise you're having to cycle the piston to fire, then the whole BCG afterwards to feed. Which in my head seems like you'd have to have some sort of split/multi-part gear system interacting between the motor and working parts; one gear for the piston then another on a different timing for the bolt carrier. Could be talking complete rubbish as usual, but I'm really not familiar with the insides of Systemas and other guns like this one. Link to post Share on other sites
Grimmese Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 let see what we have here: at the end of the gearbox you can see a part which is higher than the gears... that is holding the piston when the bcg goes forward. as you can see the second photo this clamp or what the hell it is grabing the piston. it looks simple like a sprig gun, the auto mode is magic And finally i don't think the gun can pre-cock itself, you have to do it for the first time, after that every end of the cycle is stopped with cocked. thats why you can hear a shot when they opening the upper after shooting on the videos where they changing BCG. Link to post Share on other sites
DarkLite Posted December 11, 2016 Report Share Posted December 11, 2016 Bolt carrier holds the piston. Gears engage the bolt carrier, drive it to the rear against the buffer tube spring. At the end of the BCG travel, the internal piston is caught by the sear. The gear train disengages the BCG, allowin the buffer tube spring to return the BCG to battery. As the piston is now caught on the sear, the main spring inside the BCG is compressed as the BCG returns to battery by the buffer tube return spring.Trigger pull releases the sear, letting the piston go forward under the power of the main spring. As the piston hits the front of the BCG, the geartrain is activated, repeating the process. Link to post Share on other sites
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