CAM870 or TM870, torn between choosing and need input

[castigador]

Hi people

I am not an inexperienced airsofter but I am new to the way of the airsoft shotgunner. 
As my favorite (cqb) site has recently started running "pistol and shotgun" only games I am starting to look out for a shotgun to use during those games.

Their are a few things I am sure of:
- Gas or CO2
- Needs to be equipped with a stock

I did do a bit of homework and I know my choices are limited between the CAM870 and the TM870. But I also know each one has it's own +'s and -'s

The ones I found for the CAM870
+ shoots 12 bb's at a time
+ realistic operation 
+ will shoot the same with bb's or premium bb's

+ easy to externally customize
+ probably the most reliable and most simple design

 

- limited range

- reloading shells takes (in comparison to the TM) a long time

- most expensive to use
- needing lots of shells 

The ones I found for the TM870
+ Range advantage
+ easy to load/reload
+ cheap in operation (no need to keep buying/making wads)

- As far as I read the comments on this forum it is prone to breaking
- less external customization options


Although the CAM870 is the closest to a real shotgun which certainly is attractive I am afraid I will need to stock up on lots of shells which would increase the cost considerably. Also the short range is something I am nervous about. Is their any difference in range between the various available barrel lengths? However it is pretty reliable and simple to maintain and easy to customize.

The TM wins in effective range, which makes it score lots of points. However I am put off by the comments I read here on Arnies concerning the construction of the thing. But my wallet says it's still the best choice as the TM is the cheapest. Even after customization.

Offcourse their is also the PPS M870. However as it's based on the old tanaka design which was guarantied to break pretty fast I am a bit afraid to even look at it as I have no idea what exactly is prone to breaking and if their are parts available to fix that problem. 


That out of the way. The sidearm I am running during games is a upgraded TM Glock 17 with 5 mags. 
You can see the sight I am playing on this link (not me playing I just choose one that gave a good impression)

What I would like to hear from you good people is the pro's and con's you have experienced while fighting with and against these shotguns so that I can make the most suitable choice for my money to go to.

In advance; Thanks

[BioRage]

For CQB, game ready, easy/fast loads, and easy to play, TM 870 hands down. I'd recommend the TM breacher for cqb, full length is really heavy and hard to clear rooms.

 

For legit *fruitcage* awesomeness, APS. - APS will run you more then the TM though, also annoying to reload, great for 3 guns and realistic as tits. 

 

I did just pick this up though (APS AOW, 2+1)

 

 

Ugh, only PPS I'd consider is a XM26, else.. yeah.. it's like not even worth considering without some serious modding.

[Safeword]

From what I heard, the new PPS shotguns that are out now are upgraded with better internals than their first models, not sure if this is true but I read it on another forum. 

Think they were talking about the full length versions with wood furniture. Link  Here and Here

 

I cant say much about the TM shotguns because I haven't tried them myself but I do own a APS 870 AOW which is fun but as you say, really expensive to use. And the only PPS shotgun I have tried is my XM-26 who I don't recommend cause of the lack of a shell catcher, but the PPS have some of the cheapest shells doh.

[NonEx]

I have no experience with the TM.

 

But I can tell you this. The best time I ever had playing airsoft was at an indoor CQB arena using my APS CAM870 shotgun. I don't think I can compare it to anything really, not just in terms of airsoft, but like... in life. It was amazing!

 

Seeing the front sealing paper fly out, 10 BBs following and then the plastic wad after and hitting someone... Man. It's intense!

 

Shot a guy in the balls, he limped back to spawn, haha. 

 

I used the 4+1 shorty config and shell catcher. Sure, occasionally I had feeding issues due to weak pumping or shells getting tangled in the catcher. And as you point out it is expensive to buy and use, requires a lot of shells to avoid reloading on site.

 

But, I would not trade that experience for anything. 

 

Literally, best time of my life

 

So yeah, do I have to say which one gets my vote?

 

Plus APS 870 has so many options for rebuilding, takes RS grips/stocks and forends and what not. APS has great selection of parts and accessories, and are really nice and friendly to contact.

 

Oh and I will say this, I had to reload shells on site, and honestly it is easier and takes less time than I expected. It's not fun, but it is doable. If you have a buddy helping you out you can be back in action in no time.

 

But I would recommend, no less than 30 shells, for sure. I think I have, uhmmm... 48, and it's manageable but like 60 would not hurt.

[castigador]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I like your reply NonEx, I can just imagine your enthousiasm.

I also like that you mentioned that shooting the APS is an experience. This is something I really like as that is I currently really mis in airsoft.
Right now I play with a systema ptw as my main but I just dont get any warm feelings anymore when playing with it anymore, it lacks some sort of feeling. (i mis that feeling so much I might even sell it and go GBBR instead)

So yeah thanks for that. Also saying how much shells you feel is needed is really usefull. Any info on how much shells you can fill with the charger before needing to swap out the co2 cartridges?
All I need to know now from the APS is how much performance/range difference the barrel length makes.


Safeword: thanks for the info on the PPS. It's true they are in term of shells a good option. But I still doubt the system/construction of the gun a bit. I feel like it's inherently flawed,
Still anyone who has more info, I would greatly appreciate it. 

[NonEx]

For me, realistically I get 20-30 full shell charges on 2x12 gram CO2 capsules with the OEM charger.

 

I would advice against getting the adapter for the larger 88 gram CO2 shells as I had less luck with filling from those, and, based on my calculations for what I pay per 12g vs. 88g it's more expensive.

 

Not sure what you mean regarding difference is performance in barrel lengths?

 

Since it's a no inner barrel design I can't imagine it having a very big impact on the range, spread nor accuracy, especially since APS CAM870 is pretty CQB centered, as is your field and playing style. I have fielded mine with both full length barrel (7+1) and shorty barrel (4+1 pistol grip style) and I didn't go "Woah, barrel X is a lot better/worse.". But I could be wrong.

 

I can also say that I was a bit worried at first that my site wouldn't allow it due to it firing 10-12 0.2 BBs @ 280 FPS per BB. But I got feedback on site from people who said it was no big deal. Only time people react with a shriek is if it's under 5 meter range . Or you hit them in the balls, hehe.

 

I even had one guy, whom I accidentally shot in the face (goggles only), and I was like "Oh ######". He took it like a boss and just laughed it off and said it was fine

 

But, to be nice to your fellow gamers just use 0.2g BBs as when I used 0.25 people seemed to feel the impact a lot more.

 

But yeah, from how you describe it, I think you need the APS CAM870 in your life

 

You can see my videos of it here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz5FTS2XoXasy5ZzCHy8qlIvDqvYwB_yh

 

Just a heads up, the range day video it fails pretty hard but that was because it was the first time shooting it and filling the shells, which I did a poor job of, and then I got a crushed BB in the trigger mechanism from clearing a jam front to rear.

 

Oh, and when I was at my CQB site plinking with it from 10 meters with my red dot on it, man oh man! I could pop my steel targets all day long with no issues. Rack, aim bang, rack aim bang! Super quick.

 

Also, people say hearing the sound of a shotgun rack and the pop of it shooting is very intimidating on the other end of the barrel

 

To be honest, I know you wrote you wanted a stock on it. But for playability and mobility in CQB environment, the pistol grip style is da SHIZNITS

 

Shell catcher holds like 10-12 shells, has a zipper for easy emptying. Even though I am not a pro I managed to empty my sack (lol) and reload shells in game when behind cover or in spawn without much trouble.

 

Basically the bottom line is, it was a lot easier to play with than I had anticipated, which is good news. And regardless the fun factor outweighs the work/inconvenience.

 

If you haven't already, go read this thread: http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/213358-aps-cam870-impressions/

[Alias1983]

Hi people

 

I am not an inexperienced airsofter but I am new to the way of the airsoft shotgunner.

As my favorite (cqb) site has recently started running "pistol and shotgun" only games I am starting to look out for a shotgun to use during those games.

 

Their are a few things I am sure of:

- Gas or CO2

- Needs to be equipped with a stock

I did do a bit of homework and I know my choices are limited between the CAM870 and the TM870. But I also know each one has it's own +'s and -'s

 

The ones I found for the CAM870

+ shoots 12 bb's at a time

+ realistic operation

+ will shoot the same with ###### bb's or premium bb's

+ easy to externally customize

+ probably the most reliable and most simple design

 

- limited range

- reloading shells takes (in comparison to the TM) a long time

- most expensive to use

- needing lots of shells

 

The ones I found for the TM870

+ Range advantage

+ easy to load/reload

+ cheap in operation (no need to keep buying/making wads)

- As far as I read the comments on this forum it is prone to breaking

- less external customization options

 

 

Although the CAM870 is the closest to a real shotgun which certainly is attractive I am afraid I will need to stock up on lots of shells which would increase the cost considerably. Also the short range is something I am nervous about. Is their any difference in range between the various available barrel lengths? However it is pretty reliable and simple to maintain and easy to customize.

 

The TM wins in effective range, which makes it score lots of points. However I am put off by the comments I read here on Arnies concerning the construction of the thing. But my wallet says it's still the best choice as the TM is the cheapest. Even after customization.

 

Offcourse their is also the PPS M870. However as it's based on the old tanaka design which was guarantied to break pretty fast I am a bit afraid to even look at it as I have no idea what exactly is prone to breaking and if their are parts available to fix that problem.

 

 

That out of the way. The sidearm I am running during games is a upgraded TM Glock 17 with 5 mags.

You can see the sight I am playing on this link (not me playing I just choose one that gave a good impression)

 

 

What I would like to hear from you good people is the pro's and con's you have experienced while fighting with and against these shotguns so that I can make the most suitable choice for my money to go to.

 

In advance; Thanks

My tm 870 was , refused to feed and the tm shells afaik are the same quality as the clone shells.

 

Aps is simple, the shell will be the issue if you have any.

 

The tm you need tanks and a few shells.

 

The aps, you need many shells and a shell catcher.

 

I should of spent my money on an aps 870 instead of the tm because I lost money on the tm.

[ED-SKaR]

Would you use an AR or SMG that ejects shells? Doubt it.

Would you use a pistol that ejects shells? Nope.

 

Then why would you suffer with a shotgun that has the same shortcomings?

 

I've used the TM M3 and SPAS for years, and even though they only have a pattern of 3 BBs, they are pretty much the best CQB airsoft gun I've ever used *Not best cqb shotgun, 'best cqb gun'*. I really want the 870, if only for the 6 BB pattern (But also for the ability to increase range to woodland usable range)

[Alias1983]

I would use other shell ejection guns if I could get them as easy as the aps 870 and in a model I'd want.

 

Not to mention most of them are really really expensive.

[Bando]

shell ejecting shottys would be worth it if

A. the shells where disposible IE same price as real ones.

 

B. You could load them with slugs etc and get the same results as real slugs IE long ranged heavy shots.

 

Until then there is no point as a TRI shot is 10 rounds and a 10 round shot tube would be huge.

 

 

My perfect Shotty would be the 870 system in an M3 super 90 body with the semi auto option.

[ED-SKaR]

 

 

My perfect Shotty would be the 870 system in an M3 super 90 body with the semi auto option.

 

Make it an M4s90 and I'm in. That's exactly what I've wanted since the British army introduced it as the L128A1.

I would do away with all my shotguns (all 7 of them) and just run that one.

[NonEx]

The big difference to me between a shell ejecting AR or pistol vs. the APS 870 is that the APS 870 is actually manageable with a shell catcher on.

 

Pistol and AR would be more trouble due to the RoF and volume of shells ejected.

 

And reasons why? Because it's *fruitcage* awesome!

 

I think many people have proven that the CAM 870 is actually skirmishable and is a ton of fun to use.

[BioRage]

I would pick the APS, but the TM breacher is also very fun... the external tanks can be stored in a pistol pouch, so not a big deal.

 

If you're on a budget, for with the TM - less headache for reloading.

 

If you have monetary disposal, and is legit AF, I'd go APS.

 

I run a TM M&P9 with 3+1 mags, going to up it to 5+1, and run my AOW like a beast..

[ilovethecorps]

I have a Maruzen M870... I'd prefer a shell ejecting gun all day to get the reality of operation and loading... The negatives are the cost of the shells and the need to scrabble about and pick them up.

 

If you fully load Maruzan rounds, they're fairly poor for range and power.

[Alias1983]

Cam ftw, my tm sucked

[icolater]

That VFC shotgun coming out looks the business.

[Pompe]

if you want fun cam870 if you want to be effective TM. I play with my shotty for the lulz if i want to be effective and get kills i use a ptw

[ninja master of coffee]

I've not used a CAM 870 but I own a Tokyo Marui M870. It's a fun, satisfying gun for CQB, great for snap shots, reasonable range, people also know when they're hit by it. I really like mine and it makes a nice change to using an AEG. I guess it depends why you want one, if it's for ultra realistic function then my understanding is the CAM 870 is the thing, if you want something pump action shotguny for practical airsoft usage then go with a TM M870, they're miles more fun than the spring tri-shots, but retain the practical function. I just used mine at Tuddenham for the building clearance games, it worked really nicely, certainly more fun than using an AEG and not an impractical faff.