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Atlas87

Pros & Cons of M4 Length

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Hi everyone, some advice needed really...

 

I'm looking to purchase a GHK M4 GBBR, but cannot decide between the 10.5", 12.5" or 14.5".

 

From what I've read (a lot over the last couple of months, so forgive me if I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure the length of the inner barrel won't matter enough in the aforementioned variations to influence the performance in anything close to a significant fashion. It would have to be more considerable length changes to do this? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

So, how on earth am I supposed to "pick" a length?! I think my biggest problem is trying to pick something that gives me options further down the line, without spending potential "new gun" money on different barrels etc.

 

- I think I would eventually like a suppressor of some sort, possibly a tracer unit, but on a 14.5" it might be a bit...unwieldy when entering/moving through any buildings, close/dense terrain etc.

- I'm concerned the 10.5" may feel a little "toy-like", but would not be so hindered by an eventual suppressor (in my mind at least). Whilst I appreciate these are in fact "toy guns", I mean more like a child's toy, and not make me feel like the sneaky-beaky ninja dealer of plastic balls that my inner child wishes me to be.

- The 14.5" is the same price as the other lengths, but one gets more length for the money, so if I "needed" a spare upper it would cost less in the long run. I hope. I can see a small fortune being spent in the near future. Not enough time playing + too much internet browsing = huge temptation. Still trying to be...frugal (read:tight).

- I'll have more potential real estate on a 14.5" with the additional of a larger rail system, without having to factor in new barrels et al.

 

Does anyone have any advice they can offer to help me make my mind up? I've thought a lot about it, but maybe experienced opinions will help let me decide which is of more benefit. It seems like a really daft question now I've read it back to myself. Are there genuine reasons outside of CQB-specific use or aesthetics that I'm totally ignorant about?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

*Edited to add: I've tried searching, read the entire "news release" thread, and even the 317-page-long AR-15 variant picture thread and cannot find an answer. Apologies if I've missed something obvious.

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You are right about the performance and the accuracy.

The most you will see is maybe 5-8fps with the 14,5" over the 10,5"

 

Regarding the rest well

GHKs omes with fixed barrels so no possibility to just swap in a bit of barrel.

Unless you buy an extra and have it cut down to whatever you wish to.

 

The rest er personal preferences.

 

Regarding rails and forends be aware of you need to be able to get to the hopup which is located underneath the barrel

MK18 rail will fit good and look good with the M4QD supressor.

 

So buy an extra barrel and have it cut down and than an extra bolt in case of field limit for quick swap.

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Buy the 10.5

If you want it to be 14.5 Just whack on a barrel extension.

 

This. You buy the shortest gun you want, because it is very easy to build a gun up cosmetically, and very difficult to cut one down. A steel barrel extension (10.5" to 14.5", for example) is £35 in the UK. I also want to run suppressors/tracer units from time to time and for my gun to work well in CQB and field play, so I cut mine down to 10.5" with a two-piece Guarder outer barrel; I can bring it back up to 14.5" within seconds. Shorter guns are lighter and more manoeuvrable, and more flexible - take it from me that running a 14.5" gun with a suppressor on the end can be challenging in CQB. That four inches really does make a difference.

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Bio, i don't know mate. Generally it's a thread where one guy simple repeats " buy 10" Prommy" and acts like a know it all. Every other person talking about barrels has another opinion ( airsoft, amiright?)

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Do you cqb? How big is the cqb field?

I got a 10.5(11.5) because the cqb I was building it for is tiny, Think house clearing.

But now that it closed all I can do is field so I am building a new upper for the field.http://arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/215894-field-project-ghk-m4/&do=findComment&comment=2742115

 

 

So far I have only played at F&O Anzio, so it's a nice mixture of both CQB and field, which I rather enjoyed. I saw you mentioned that in (I think) the GHK M4 news thread about your local CQB site closing. All the M4s Ive seen in person are "full size", which maybe why I was worried about it feeling too small. I've only seen CQBRs in film/to and on the Internet. Thank you for the advice!

 

 

 

Honestly?

Buy the 10.5

If you want it to be 14.5 Just whack on a barrel extension.

Sorted.

 

 

Ah, a very simple option that I'd overlooked! The only time I really looked into barrel extensions was when I was reading threads on "L119A1s", and after some searching I couldn't find the piece to bring a barrel up to 16" (IIRC) and subsequently put the idea on the back burner.

 

 

This. You buy the shortest gun you want, because it is very easy to build a gun up cosmetically, and very difficult to cut one down. A steel barrel extension (10.5" to 14.5", for example) is £35 in the UK. I also want to run suppressors/tracer units from time to time and for my gun to work well in CQB and field play, so I cut mine down to 10.5" with a two-piece Guarder outer barrel; I can bring it back up to 14.5" within seconds. Shorter guns are lighter and more manoeuvrable, and more flexible - take it from me that running a 14.5" gun with a suppressor on the end can be challenging in CQB. That four inches really does make a difference.

That is my biggest concern about a suppressor on a 14.5" - I've not held one, but I imagine it to be quite cumbersome. The inner tight-a*se in me is arguing that I get more rifle for my money, but I need to ignore that and look at the practical side of things.

Thank you for that link, that looks like it will fit my needs perfectly.

I will be getting a pistol, but having to totally rely purely on that for any CQB areas is not IMO ideal, as it leaves me without a backup (probably less important given the typical engagement distances), but I'll also have a primary potentially dangling between my legs, impeding movement. Or I may be looking into things too deeply!

 

I appreciate everybody's input. I think a key part was needing reassurance that one option was more beneficial than the other, especially as this will be my largest (for the time being!) purchase from the Far East. Alas, the only place in the UK I can find with any stock is Mil-Spec Solutions, and they don't carry blank lowers. I don't think I could live with the "Original Navy" lower, so Samoon will likely be getting my business.

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.....it leaves me without a backup (probably less important given the typical engagement distances), but I'll also have a primary potentially dangling between my legs, impeding movement. Or I may be looking into things too deeply!

 

 

Phrasing! B)

 

On a serious note, 10" barrel length or under 650mm OAL is probably the ideal size for pretty much most combat carbine in modern day real world engagements.  Average engagement distances are around 30m with 95% at around 100m (which strangely is only a little more than airsofting distances).  10" in 5.56m will hit out to 300m fine on 55gr and more than sufficient with 30-50m engagements.  Airsoft 10" has the best balance of barrel length and accuracy, with modern hop units and barrels the difference between a 10"/14"/16" barrel hitting out to 60-70m is negligible as they will equally hit targets with the same consistency at that range.

 

Only thing is looks. a 10"  is now very common, 14.5"  is very "boot", 16" is very civilian, 18" is too long unless MK12'ed.

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Best advice

Get your primary up and running before considering a backup/pistol.

 

With a little practice your can change bolt relatively fast. So a second bolt til CQB and to have a backup bolt in care the nozzle breaks is worth considering.

You only need one type of mags then can spend a little extra on sight and p-barrel in care you choose a such.

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I bought the 14.5" and got a 10.5" barrel separately, the reason is entirely cosmetic, it has no noticeable effect on performance as far as BB trajectory goes. In terms of CQB, I don't actually find the 14.5" to be too long, however, as you mentioned, if you think you might considering running tracers, that's when it would make enough a differences, so if I had to pick only one out of 3, I would have picked 10.5". 

 

Here's my GHK in the two configurations:

 

DSC05099.jpg

DSC05007.jpg

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The navy lower is not bad, I don't even notice the trademarks anymore.

I'd get the 12"

 

 

They don't look all that bad, but I'm not sure how they'd be in person - I won't be able to handle one in the flesh unless I see one at a skirmish. I could always order a blank receiver, which would also alleviate my concern over spending so much money outside the UK on something (mainly thinking about potential "support" from the seller in this regard).

 

Best advice

Get your primary up and running before considering a backup/pistol.

With a little practice your can change bolt relatively fast. So a second bolt til CQB and to have a backup bolt in care the nozzle breaks is worth considering.

You only need one type of mags then can spend a little extra on sight and p-barrel in care you choose a such.

 

 

This makes sense - but it'll be hard convincing myself to not get a pistol! Work location means I don't get much time at home or in the UK, so I'm always in a bit of a rush to get things all in one go!

I'll be getting the GHK 1J nozzle, as from what I've found out so far, the FG-Airsoft version isn't CO2 friendly. Fortunately I can get these in the UK though, and there is at least some "local" support with MilSpec solutions stocking limited parts.

 

I bought the 14.5" and got a 10.5" barrel separately, the reason is entirely cosmetic, it has no noticeable effect on performance as far as BB trajectory goes. In terms of CQB, I don't actually find the 14.5" to be too long, however, as you mentioned, if you think you might considering running tracers, that's when it would make enough a differences, so if I had to pick only one out of 3, I would have picked 10.5.

That's what I'd gleaned from a lot of reading, but glad to see people confirm it so I know I haven't confused myself!

Thank you for those pictures - I'm not sure if it's the fact you have different rails (still can't remember the difference between RIS or RAS), but the barrel length doesn't seem as noticeably short - providing the bottom one is in fact the CQBR. Which would makes sense given the optic choices. I'm talking to myself again...

At least my options are open when it comes to changing barrel length (extensions, spare barrels and/or uppers). I'm now pretty sure I'll be going for the 10.5" setup, as the consensus here is that it's preferable when potentially put into a CQB environment and won't be too cumbersome with a silencer.

Thank you kindly for the wisdom (and possibly spoon feeding me!) chaps!

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 I don't think I could live with the "Original Navy" lower, so Samoon will likely be getting my business.

 

I suggest e-mailing Samoon, who have Colt M4A1-marked receivers hidden somewhere out of sight of Cybergun. They should be able to fix you up with a gun with Colt trades, which is preferable to blank and greatly preferable to the horrible stock rollmark.

 

As the others have said, forget the pistol for the moment. You need to focus on getting your primary up and running properly before starting another project.

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I changed mine to a Colt lower, as far as I know it's sold out last time I checked, but you could buy complete guns from Samoon that has those marking when they're back in stock. I would advice doing that over buying a separate lower, as every batch seem to have a small amount of fit issues, I had to take the file to my Colt receiver for a good hour to get it to be compatible with both my uppers. (My 10.5" and 14.5" builds are done in uppers so changing them over is much easier) 

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I wanted a blank version myself but they were all out when I ordered mine and I don't like the kwa style markings Evike puts on their stock.

 

I have run a 14.5 in cqb before, it just takes some careful movement.

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So I finally have it.

 

post-100247-0-80498600-1455828147_thumb.jpeg

post-100247-0-96397500-1455828203_thumb.jpeg

 

10.5", stuck the 1J nozzle in it, and now just hoping I can get the FPS down under 350.

I hadn't realised before getting it that the front sight was integral to the rail, so after removing it and putting a pair of MBUS on, I realised it needed to go back! Never mind - now I can shop for a replacement rail!

The length is definitely the right choice though.

 

So far I'm getting 352 on Abbey Ultra, and 363 on CO2, first shots, both mags being freshly gassed, 0.2g BBs. Both drop down to 320 by the end of a mag, and I'm getting roughly 1.5 mags per fill of gas at around 1 shot per second. The mags are all starting at room temperature, but I haven't measured that precisely.

 

I had one very slight leak in a co2 mag, but that seems to have been resolved with some silicone oil for now.

 

Hopefully I can put a few hundred BBs through it tomorrow and see if that "beds in" the 1J nozzle. At the moment it's too hot for field limits, and at my "usual" sites, it will be chrono'd when freshly gassed (or with new CO2 capsule) and on 0.2g BBs. Presuming that's standard at most places but I have limited experience.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on lowering FPS? I've read all I can find, and it seems the options are literally limited to the 1J nozzle or the FG-Airsoft adjustable nozzle (which wouldn't agree with my CO2 mags). I'm not sure if all the 1J nozzles need bedding in, or if it's just a few, or if I'm going to put 2000 BBs through it and still be shooting hot.

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So I finally have it.

 

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

attachicon.gifimage.jpeg

 

10.5", stuck the 1J nozzle in it, and now just hoping I can get the FPS down under 350.

I hadn't realised before getting it that the front sight was integral to the rail, so after removing it and putting a pair of MBUS on, I realised it needed to go back! Never mind - now I can shop for a replacement rail!

The length is definitely the right choice though.

 

So far I'm getting 352 on Abbey Ultra, and 363 on CO2, first shots, both mags being freshly gassed, 0.2g BBs. Both drop down to 320 by the end of a mag, and I'm getting roughly 1.5 mags per fill of gas at around 1 shot per second. The mags are all starting at room temperature, but I haven't measured that precisely.

 

I had one very slight leak in a co2 mag, but that seems to have been resolved with some silicone oil for now.

 

Hopefully I can put a few hundred BBs through it tomorrow and see if that "beds in" the 1J nozzle. At the moment it's too hot for field limits, and at my "usual" sites, it will be chrono'd when freshly gassed (or with new CO2 capsule) and on 0.2g BBs. Presuming that's standard at most places but I have limited experience.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on lowering FPS? I've read all I can find, and it seems the options are literally limited to the 1J nozzle or the FG-Airsoft adjustable nozzle (which wouldn't agree with my CO2 mags). I'm not sure if all the 1J nozzles need bedding in, or if it's just a few, or if I'm going to put 2000 BBs through it and still be shooting hot.

It took about 1k bbs for mine to read under 350.

 

Still nowhere near 1j but its under 350 for first half mag.

 

Fsp is held on by 2 pins, once it's off the kac style rails will fall off.

 

The top rail has a bolt holding it secure, you need an AR wrench to take the Delta ring assembly off.

 

Then its adding a rail kit.

I would go for a 9" or a 9.5" 10 is really close and the urx3.1 is to long for the cqbr barrel.

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