Airsoft bow and arrow

[blobface]

So I thought about this when I was slightly obsessed with the Last of Us and wanted to do a Joel loadout, but without a bow and arrow, it misses the main component of the loadout as it's most people's favourite weapon in the game. 

 

1:6 scale figure picture I found on Google...

 

Airsoft bow and arrow doesn't exist for obvious reasons, and using a real bow and arrow with a squash ball at the end doesn't count and probably no one should let you use it. So I thought about this:

The position of the piston is not at all ideal in this little drawing as there's a massive air gap between the piston and the end of the cylinder at rest position, which is really dumb, but it's just a sketch to give a rough idea.

 

 

At storage / carrying, the "arrow" part of the bow is kept upright, when you need to use it, it can swivel down and lock in place (but it doesn't have to lock, considering real arrows don't lock perfectly at 90°). As you pull the draw string back, it pulls a piston back like any other airsoft sniper rifles (or AEGs for that matter), and when you reach the solid state of the spring, you know you've reached full draw and can let go for relatively consistent power, provided you let go the string cleanly. Once fired, there should be no hop up at all so you'd have to arc your shots like you would with bow and arrow. The length of pull / draw weight would be determine by length of spring / cylinder and where the "mid point" is located, the illustration above as mentioned is completely not to scale and is only a rough reference, right now the pull looks too short to replicate the feel of a bow and arrow (which I have practically no experience with). 

 

I have no idea how the feeding mechanism would work, perhaps when the spring is solid at full draw, the entire cylinder gets pushed back and chambers a BB like how a tappet plate does. Ammunition wise, I was thinking it should be able to hold a healthy amount before having to reload, so perhaps some sort of loading tube system similar to what Marushin Mossbergs use. 

 

I don't have any real plans to make this at the moment, this is more of a thinking out loud thread, anyone who's interested please feel free to chime in with ideas! 

[bankz5152]

When i read the title i was like "wtf is this? Has typewriter returned?" Then i read the thread and am now impressed, pretty cool idea!

 

Using 8mm bbs would probably be best for this kind of thing

 

on my phone, my spelling will suck

[Gigueand]

They make something very similar to what you describe for paintball. Might want to take a look at that for inspiration.

[ED-SKaR]

[niggling annoyance mode]The weapon is called a bow, not a 'bow and arrow'.[/niggling annoyance mode]

 

 

 

Before we go any further, have you considered a LARP bow, as those are designed to shoot at people, just like airsoft is? It may make everything easier for you, but it might not be what you want.

Some airsoft sites might not let you use it, but they really should, they are perfectly safe. Similar to using a nerf rocket in a 40mm launcher.

 

 

 

 

 

The spring energy of a bow is stored in the limbs, so why 'reinvent the wheel' as it were and just use the limbs as your spring. This means you can have a much longer piston, or a much longer barrel.

 

The draw distance of a bow can be estimated by your arm span or height (both should be within an inch or two) Or, my preference, by actually holding a bow and measuring it directly.

A fully drawn bow should be held at or under your chin. Assuming a full height person at around 6', you can estimate at about 3' from haft to chin, and about 20" from rested string to fully drawn string at the chin.

So you can have 20" of piston travel, even if you use a very thin piston disguised as a fat arrow, you will have plenty of volume for an airsoft projectile at a respectable FPS... Read also, insane FPS, as there is a lot of energy in a real bow. There are many ways to reduce the FPS down to an airsoft appropriate level without sacrificing consistency, the first of which is to not use a 120 pound bow.

 

I am slightly plucking numbers out of my head for this, but if my guesstimates and airsoft law is correct, that a 300mm barrel is the bestest and nuffing can evar be bettar, then the following applies:

300mm ~12" (I've started in imperial so I'll finish with it)

~12" + ~24" = 3 foot

A fully drawn bow is about 3 foot from haft to chin, so the entire 'contraption' that you build would entirely be placed within the arch of the bow. Probably a faux broad head on the front with a hidden attachment of some description to keep it in position on the bow.

This will require some calculation on air volumes, just to make sure that a long thin piston can support a 300mm barrel.

 

 

I personally would use a hop unit, for two reasons. One, playing woodland airsoft with no hop sucks, for outdoor play, range is king. For indoor/cqb, are you really going to bring a bow? ... Hell I would...

The second, and more important reason, is to keep the BB in place before you release the bow for the shot. This will give you the accuracy and consistency that you would loose if you didn't have a hop unit.

 

 

For feeding mechanism, I would put a long internal magazine above the barrel, running forwards to the faux arrow head. I'd make the entire 'arrow' quite thick, to accommodate the piston, then at the front have the airsoft barrel at the bottom, and the magazine at the top. All told this 'arrow' would be about 20mm in diameter (so much for using imperial, right?) dependant on what piston, magazine and hop arrangements are required to make the thing work.

The magazine would hold a whole lot of ammo for a bow, even including a magazine spring you could fit 40 BBs or so in it, using a midcap would make 80, and if you didn't use a magazine spring and went with a hopper system, I imagine up to 200 would be feasible in the design I have in my head. With a hopper you'd have to point the arrow (and therefore the whole bow) upwards to load each shot, you are already at a very low ROF so do you want to make it even worse?

 

Using an airsoft nozzle would make sourcing parts easy, but actuating it would require a little thinking. Possibilities include: Running a rod the entire length of the piston. Having a smaller rod running through the piston head and trying to make it air tight, using one of the old style nozzles that restrict airflow so that when you release the piston it creates pressure that pushes the nozzle forward, then having a weak spring to reset it once the pressure drops, or finally, having a button on the side that moves the nozzle so that you manually load a BB before drawing the string.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oooooooooorrrrr You could stick a bow in your rucksack for the look of it and use a TM m870. (Like teh noobs do with springer pistols in holsters, just to make it look good)

[Hatchet]

How about moving the magic feeding mechanism further back? That way it could be seated on the limbs/hand grip and just gravity feed down from upper limb, or spring feed up if made part of handgrip.

[Horsem4n]

you could use a PTW or katana style cylinder head, piston head and nozzle as the basis for loading.

 

the nozzle on those physically grabs the nozzle with an o'ring embedded at the front of the piston head and moves it back during the first 8mm or so of piston travel. i would recommend some type of AEG sourced hop up unit (P90? AUG?) to help with reliably feeding 1 bb at a time.

 

problem, what happens if you draw the bow, but do not end up firing? with an auto loading mechanism, you'd end up shooting a 2nd bb or more every time you redraw the bow. 

may want to think of a manual loading mechanism.

[renegadecow]

Ditch the spring and pneumatic piston altogether. Just make it a shaft in a tube where the bb is accelerated directly by the shaft under tension of the bow limbs. Bbs are fed through a hole at full draw and held in place with tensioned nubs like the WE P90s hop chamber.

[Alias1983]

I been thinking, maybe ideas from an awss system could be incorporated?

 

Kinda drunk and it was the closest I could come up with in simpler terms.

[blobface]

The spring energy of a bow is stored in the limbs, so why 'reinvent the wheel' as it were and just use the limbs as your spring. This means you can have a much longer piston, or a much longer barrel.

 

Ditch the spring and pneumatic piston altogether. Just make it a shaft in a tube where the bb is accelerated directly by the shaft under tension of the bow limbs. Bbs are fed through a hole at full draw and held in place with tensioned nubs like the WE P90s hop chamber.

 

Thanks ED-sKaR for your bow information! I'll have to ask you some more questions about that as I have literally zero experience with a bow, however I think I'm going to be stubborn about the hop up thing, chances are I won't likely hit anything at long ranges with this thing, so anywhere between 15-30m would be good enough, and I don't want to have to worry about making sure my bow is perfectly vertical, and can even cant it a little to be able to see better without the hop curving the BB. 

 

So the consensus seem to be to use a real bow and use the power in the limbs for as the source, that makes a lot of sense, the reason I was avoiding it in the first place was that one could just test out the piston system until an fps consistency is reached, then the bow part of the contraption is just cosmetic which doesn't even have to flex, but just a framework for the mechanism. That said, I think you're right, getting a £20 bow and making a shaft in a tube is a far better starting point than my little diagram which pretty much involves every part to be custom made. P90 style chamber would also be perfect for this. 

 

what happens if you draw the bow, but do not end up firing? with an auto loading mechanism, you'd end up shooting a 2nd bb or more every time you redraw the bow. 

may want to think of a manual loading mechanism.

 

I think it's probably okay, or rather I'm okay with that, so if you want to shoot the bow, you'd have to pull it full length to load the BB, at which point you have the option to either shoot it, or slowly walk the guide back to the resting position, and since you know you've chambered a round, all you gotta do is then tilt the bow downwards just a little to watch a BB to come out, making it ready for the next round. 

 

[renegadecow]

You could also make the bow yourself out of PVC (one of my other hobbies). All weather and dry fire proof (you can't dry fire wooden bows), this one pulls 22lbs.

[blobface]

Nice bow, I can imagine seeing this entire airsoft bow to be made out of your signature blue PVC... With the shaft in a tube method, it's almost like a bolt on system which would work with any bow with small amount of adjustment, to begin with I was just thinking of getting something like this  (28lb) instead of a wooden bow (which are either for kids or too expensive)... 

[renegadecow]

Those nylon bows are pretty resilient too. Not sure on poundage, but I think a 28lbs bow would be too much as that's about the limit people use in archery tag and that's with a giant foam ball at the end as a cushion.

Also, to compensate for the lack of accuracy, I just realized you could multi cock this system for a shotgun effect.

[ED-SKaR]

Thanks ED-sKaR for your bow information! I'll have to ask you some more questions about that as I have literally zero experience with a bow, however I think I'm going to be stubborn about the hop up thing...

Well, I'm hardly an expert on archery, but I've shot everything that shoots and have a little mechanical engineering knowhow so I'll help where I can.

 

The hop thing is your choice, I'll just sit here and politely mock you for disagreeing with me.

 

 

 

So the consensus seem to be to use a real bow and use the power in the limbs for as the source, that makes a lot of sense, the reason I was avoiding it in the first place was that one could just test out the piston system until an fps consistency is reached, then the bow part of the contraption is just cosmetic which doesn't even have to flex, but just a framework for the mechanism.

 

 

As I mentioned there are a lot of ways to reduce the FPS, you can add a limit to the length of pull, vents in the piston, or even use a much shorter length of pull from the front end by over extending the undrawn string distance. That way you can buy a cheap, low draw weight bow (that can handle 'dry fire') and adjust your 'airsoft arrow converter' to make for an appropriate FPS.

 

 

 

Also, to compensate for the lack of accuracy, I just realized you could multi cock this system for a shotgun effect.

 

 

OOoorrr, you could use a feed system that fed 3 or 5 rounds into the barrel, making it a shotgun rather than a rifle. It would make it a little better in terms of playing airsoft, but ruin the realism. I guess that would be personal choice.

 

 

 

...dry fire proof....

Well ~~~~, that's a very important thing that I forgot about.

[Cuppycake]

When i read the title i was like "wtf is this? Has typewriter returned?" Then i read the thread and am now impressed, pretty cool idea!

 

Using 8mm bbs would probably be best for this kind of thing

 

on my phone, my spelling will suck

 oh lord typewriter! hahaha

 

Not the worst Idea ever and it seems youve already put some work into the design. Can't wait to see more. 

[machgo]

Blobface, it looks like your first diagrams represent a "pneumatic" propulsion system, complete with a piston and cylinder.  But the second diagram looks like the propulsion is from the piston, or inner shaft, slamming into the BB.  Or am I missing something?

 

The feed system you've designed in the "pneumatic" type may be beneficial in the sense you will get some pressure venting out the BB input tube, much like vents in AEG cylinders for shorter barrel guns.  Unless there is some kind of sealing system not pictured.

 

Theoretically, you could incorporate a hybrid tappet/cylinder head system, similar to a P*, wherein the cylinder head is retracted to allow a BB to feed at the end of the stroke, then moves forward, pushing the BB into the chamber and sealing the system.  But that's a lot of mechanism in a small space...

[Murdoc]

Haha, I planned this years ago (early 2010')!

 

To be more precise I wanted to build an KGB/FSB assassin crossbow with PSO on the side. I wanted to use old nordic skis as bow arms (I mean both back part of a pair).

 

That's my old illustration:

http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy142/Flippy-Murdoc/other%20guns/airsoftcrossbow.jpg

I don't illustrated the nozzle part... maybe a limited movable cilindrical part which moves back with the piston, and after 6mms separates from the piston to prevent the BBs from falling out... I wanted to fix the arrow on the crossbows surface, and hide the barrel hop up, piston and cilinder inside...

 

Courious about progress and results...

[blobface]

Blobface, it looks like your first diagrams represent a "pneumatic" propulsion system, complete with a piston and cylinder.  But the second diagram looks like the propulsion is from the piston, or inner shaft, slamming into the BB.  Or am I missing something?

 

That's right, the benefit of the first approach is that it's essentially an airsoft gun / cylinder adapted to work like a bow, the second however, is really more like an actual bow where the arrow pushes the BB through a tube, which is then trapped by a stopper at the back, it's far simpler and you will get a much greater draw length (more realism when operating). The downside is, I know approach A definitely works, but approach B I'm not entirely sure. 

 

I've actually just bought a cheap 10lb nylon bow, will get some nylon shaft with diameter close to 6mm (perhaps imperial ones like the 3/16" that measures 5.76mm), butcher some AEG inner barrel I have lying around... should be able to do a simple single shot test without fancy pivot mounts to see what kind of velocity I will / won't get out of approach B. 

[Roland1014]

This has already been done. 

 

[renegadecow]

Yes, but it's $190 for the kit alone and is no more aesthetically pleasing as this:

[blobface]

That's cool, thanks for linking the video, I actually hadn't even Google'd it when I drew that up assuming no one would make something this absurd. However, if achieveable I'd like mine to be lower profile and "foldable" like in both of the drawings.

 

Yes, but it's $190 for the kit alone and is no more aesthetically pleasing as this:

 

That image for some reason has triggered some sort of 90s commercial music to play in my head. 

[PureSilver]

Yes, but it's $190 for the kit alone and is no more aesthetically pleasing as this:

 

By complete coincidence, I actually owned one of these back before the Avengers film franchise, when it was just the Big Bad Bow.

[sir naggedalot]

Here's one that is a bit more suitable for airsofters :0) 

 

-_-&cm_mmc=ad-ppc-_-ggle-pla-_-%5Basda%2Btracking%2Bcategory%5D-_-'>http://direct.asda.com/Nerf-Rebelle-Agent-Bow-Blaster/000706738,default,pd.html&cmpid=ppc-_-ad-pla-_-ggle-pla-_-Toys-and-Games-_-000706738&cm_mmc=ad-ppc-_-ggle-pla-_-Toys-and-Games-_-000706738&istCompanyId=71f4ae42-94c5-4821-aa58-05eff6da2486&istItemId=watixlraa&istBid=tztx&cmpid=ppc-_-ad-_--_-&cm_mmc=ad-ppc-_-ggle-pla-_-%5Basda%2Btracking%2Bcategory%5D-_-