CZFan Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 Guarder is the best aftermarket. GM has never been released. it has been in the works for 2+ years now, so keep waiting. HK3P is the best marui compatible frame you can get on a oem gun, second only to stark. HK has a few problems. The frame is very dull and matte. This is easily fixed over time as oil seeps in and gives it the proper shine, however out of the box, it is nowhere close to the real thing. The window with the made in Austria etc is too matte, again, not accurate. same with the patents window space. It is however extremely rigid and tough, stronger than guarder. I can't imagine how you would strip the screw out of that but then people can be rough with things using power drivers and what not.. TOP: HK3P frame after the oil had set it over the past year MIDDLE: Glock actual frame BOTTOM: virgin never built never contaminated guarder frame. hope this helps to those wondering. Both are 2mill too high in the rail area which is why none of the airsofts fit into certain molded holsters (typically the level3 ones which are very intolerant to deviations). To be honest, once installed and used/oiled, you will not be able to tell the difference. There is 0 actual FEEL difference between the 3. The only differences exist if you begin comparing them mm by mm and right out of the box (as I mentioned above about hk frames). fun fact: a lower built airsoft is about double the weight of the real thing That's due to the massive metal inserts that are used. Quite funny. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 What does that even mean on Guarders frame? Nylon reinforced? lol Is the strength of the frame really such a big deal? In what regards is it a problem? I doubt one is much better than the other when it comes to strength during normal use If you look at actual Guarder promo photos for their frames it says "Nylon + Fiber, Realistic Material", in other words they are using glass fibre reinforced nylon (not to be confused with nylon fibre reinforced, which isn't even a thing) rather than plain nylon or say ABS so they will be stronger. It's also worth noting that H&k use glass fibre reinforced plastics for their G36 so from a realism standpoint it's preferable, I'd wager most other RS manufacturers are using them as well. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 If you look at actual Guarder promo photos for their frames it says "Nylon + Fiber, Realistic Material", in other words they are using glass fibre reinforced nylon (not to be confused with nylon fibre reinforced, which isn't even a thing) rather than plain nylon or say ABS so they will be stronger. It's also worth noting that H&k use glass fibre reinforced plastics for their G36 so from a realism standpoint it's preferable, I'd wager most other RS manufacturers are using them as well. literally all airsoft plastics are with something mixed in. the concentration varies. Pure ABS or nylon (or as close as you can get to it) is really marui and KJW on their polymer CZs the most realistic mix of materials to real stuff is the ASG evo (cz scorpion). sadly its a filthy aeg and it wont grace my shelves. but if you want basically real gun polymers, get that. closest you can get bar none. that's probably the only selling point to it tbh but that's for another topic. WE's G36 series is also pretty high on that list. On the other hand, the classic army of days gone by are pretty weak. ive snapped multiple handguards just putting the pin in after a battery change. cant comment on Japanese market guns (tanaka, western arms, KSC plastic versions) as I never buy those. but they should be marui like, so pretty plasticky. though the heavy weight versions from KCS have been known to have metal (zinc?) dust in them (KSC VZ61 comes to mind). In all fairness, western arms also used something like that on some of their stuff. but it was model specific. the only real difference between the airsoft and the real gun plastics is the ratio of materials used. its not some secret technology or materials that are exclusive to real gun makers. the subtle difference is that real gun polymers are designed to withstand higher heat than random plastic mixes. there simply isn't that need in airsoft... no part of the gun will get red hot at any point during use. guarder uses all sorts of monikers to describe things. SQ treatment, P-process, etc. those are not actual industry terms and are metal treatments that exist under real trade names that they wont label. if someone knows what they refer to, do chime in. for instance RA I could swear parkerized some of their metals... but called it something else entirely as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted July 16, 2016 Report Share Posted July 16, 2016 If you need a holster for a g17 get one for the g20 iirc Fits like a dream Link to post Share on other sites
Guges Mk3 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 If you need a holster for a g17 get one for the g20 iirc Fits like a dream ^This is only for TM, Starks and some WE's I think the HK3P (3HKP...) are 1:1, but not completely sure due to the tooling now being sold off. KSC can use the proper holster. No one here likes the Stark "Glock" grips? Albeit they are a bit wide. Gen 4 replicas from them will have the proper widths. Link to post Share on other sites
Dj_komodo Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 The HK3P is a WE, just with trades... Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 ^This is only for TM, Starks and some WE's I think the HK3P (3HKP...) are 1:1, but not completely sure due to the tooling now being sold off. KSC can use the proper holster. No one here likes the Stark "Glock" grips? Albeit they are a bit wide. Gen 4 replicas from them will have the proper widths. No glock frame is actually correct. They are all wrong in their own ways. The incompetency is mind boggling really given how many companies have made these over the years.. can't get it right.. Many 1:1 guns out there. 0 of them being glocks tho. I like stark frames. They are the best IMO. too bad they are something of a weird system that doesn't work with marui too well.. It's a mix of G18 upper with some VFC imaginary lower. Technically they are way closer to the real thing on the frame components, but modding them is a pain. And VFC guns are *suitcase* that you will be spending more time looking for parts on than shooting. Hence why they are sidelined Link to post Share on other sites
Lone_Bullet Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 To be honest, as the OP, I care only for robust feel and reliability. 1:1 is important as well yez1 but trades? No. I'd like the glock to be rocksolid, I don't keep showpieces. What feels good? I'm in love with the feel of the KSC FPG. I believe that's DuPont polymer? Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Kinda on/off topic, but I really despise how all Glock replicas have the improper height on the slides and the improper height/ratios on the frame on the three subsections of the dust cover/rail (the three stepping surfaces on the sides). Also WE slides have the wrong chamfer radius on the slides that bugs me a lot With my OCD it might as well be centimeters off and not millimeters. Looks way wonky in my eyes. Again, Stark did it best, but damn those internals... If you want a rock solid Glock then I suggest you build yourself a custom one with all the new Guarder parts that are out. Should make for one hell of a custom Glock. I have these coming my way You can do a Glock 17 GEN3 style build and with an aluminum slide performance is going to be better than with a steel one obviously. Link to post Share on other sites
icolater Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Was thinking about one for a while, but using a steel slide and aps co2 mags. Link to post Share on other sites
Danke Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Was thinking about one for a while, but using a steel slide and aps co2 mags. Make sure you're setup so the hammer/valve knocker will trip the valve to cycle. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 im currently collecting parts for my g34 steel build. I loved my g34 alum too much so im making another one, since I hate the light weight on the alum parts. feels so wrong on that size gun. anyway, details in the picture thread when done, whenever that is. im sourcing some odd parts from all sorts of random places atm. I do similar to noex but just via bookmarks. I don't even add the $. pointless cause I know ill spend it anyway regardless what the numbers say. so the less I know, the better. on a side note.. AIP aluminum magazine release. avoid. oversized, binds like mad. gets looser after a lot of pressing but still binds. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Was thinking about one for a while, but using a steel slide and aps co2 mags. are those better than stark co mags? im very unimpressed with them btw. seem as restricted as gas... Link to post Share on other sites
3vi1-D4n Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 I am gonna put my two cents in. 1) Guarder frames is no where close to RS frames. It doesn't feel close at all. WE/HKP3 frames are the closest to RS frames, by the material and the flex. RS glock frames, like the WE, has an amount of flex, the Guarder frames are hard and doesn't flex. 2) Guarder frames are made mostly of ABS. It dissolves using ABS glue. 3) It is possible to make a durable RS glock lower frame out of a guarder lower frame. Does require some redesign work, few glock bits, and addition of extra pins but it will work. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 They feel exactly the same. Texture is identical and so is hardness for all intents and purposes. im not sure on what you base your assumptions, but I doubt its comparison with a real gun....not even going to address the whole conversion issue, which tells me you haven't even looked inside WE frames are sandy. That's because they are high fiber content with less bonders. Give them enough strain and they will crack. So yes, they are stronger to the feel, but not stronger to use. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 I have heard similar statements as 3vi1-D4n says about the Guarder vs. RS Glock frames from other people that have real Glocks in another forum/thread a long time ago. I think it was when I was doing my Glock Project RS Case for the Glock and on gasguns.info forums IIRC. They voted for HK3P frames as well. Some are more sensitive/observant than others, and might value some properties higher than others. But my own opinion, without having handled a real Glock, which I guess makes my opinion null and void really. But from my rather extensive research of images and videos of real Glocks and my experience with KSC, KJW, Marui, Guarder, WE and HK3P I still stand by my subjective opinion based on my "limited" experience that the HK3P frames "look" more like the real thing, with some exceptions. Link to post Share on other sites
CZFan Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 gen 4 sure. gen 3, nope. That comes from my subjective experience of staring at them on my desk before each post in this thread. I might simply be insane, who knows. Link to post Share on other sites
icolater Posted July 26, 2016 Report Share Posted July 26, 2016 I have had so far : ksc g19 and 17, all the stark glocks bar the 19, marui g17 with guarded frame and slide etc and a hk3p gen 4. The IMO ranking : 1 guarder (strongest and best looking), 2 ksc g19 (frame is a bit OD and lack markings but quality is top notch), 3 stark gen 4 (so realistic looking but soft) 4 hk3p (great looking but soft and marks to easy) 5 marui () 6 ksc g17. () Link to post Share on other sites
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