5 years later...which is the best GBBR?

[gunnermaniac]

So, I'm just returning to airsoft. I feel like I've reverted to a newbie so this feels like the suitable subforum.

 

When I left the GBBR craze was just picking up. Five years later, which is the most reliable GBBR out of the box?

 

Something which doesn't need any aftermarket parts fitted and will hold up as good as a TM?

 

The thought of sneaking through dense foliage of Fireball Airsoft armed with a silenced M4 GBB has brought me back to this fund-draining hobby.

 

Cheers!

 

EDIT: Number 1 atm looks like Tanio Koba (KJW) M4

[Crying Scum]

From what I have seen, GHK GBBR are great out of the box. They are reliable and very gas efficient, especially with devilhunter mod on those magazine. The internals are very strong and made of steel. There are videos of people that have been shooting thousands of rounds, and it still going strong.

They have M4, AKM, AUG and G5 (loosely based of CZ EVO scorpion). Then we got Hephaestus custom TAR-21 with GHK internals. 

 

[gunnermaniac]

From what I have seen, GHK GBBR are great out of the box. They are reliable and very gas efficient, especially with devilhunter mod on those magazine. The internals are very strong and made of steel. There are videos of people that have been shooting thousands of rounds, and it still going strong.

 

They have M4, AKM, AUG and G5 (loosely based of CZ EVO scorpion). Then we got Hephaestus custom TAR-21 with GHK internals. 

 

 

Interesting, would you rate it over the TM MWS?

[Crying Scum]

I can't answer that question, since I don't own any of those system. But since you mention TM MWS, I can safe to assume you are talking about M4 platform? 

Here's a video comparing GHK and TM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHu4xrDCG7M
 

[gunnermaniac]

I can't answer that question, since I don't own any of those system. But since you mention TM MWS, I can safe to assume you are talking about M4 platform? 

 

Here's a video comparing GHK and TM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHu4xrDCG7M

 

Yes the M4. Ahh thank you for the link. It looks like the TM is the one to go with as the GHK has reports of the bolt stop coming off?

[Crying Scum]

Do you mean the bolt doesn't lock back? From what I have read, a simple file on the edge of the BCG will fix it. One thing I really don't like about the GHK is the location of the hop up adjuster, It's somewhat under the hand guard so adjusting it mid-game will be hard, impossible if you choose other hand guard that doesn't split open like the KAC RIS rail.

If you wait patiently, surely some other Arnie member who is more qualified at this subject will give you a proper answer. 

[icolater]

If you like TM so much, go for the TM m4, it will probably run forever on duster gas. I would go for the ghk If you want hassle free green gas/co2 fun or the WA system if you want to spend money and get something exotic, but as you want OOTB performance go for the GHK or marui M4.

[Siavash]

GHK are the best so far but mags do cost a bit, TM is good but the RS mods to it are limited which is a no no to me.

Or you can go for cheaper options like WE or WA and get RA upgrades for them and make them work..

I own a WE M4 and it hasn't had its own fair share of problems!

[Guges Mk3]

KJW Gen3 are lurking out there...they are a viable option now too.

[Honzo]

I've owned both GHk m4, lm4 kwa, G&P, and i also have the TM mws. TM has been consistent so far, good out of the box performance. Just slap on an optic and its ready to go. I loved my GHK m4 but the bolt did stop locking back (which a simple file will do). Samoon has good support for it as well. Im happy with the TM MWS, I know it will be in and out reliable. The problem is getting mags for the TM is a pain.

[gunnermaniac]

KJW Gen3 are lurking out there...they are a viable option now too.

Got a link? Can't find a gen 3 through google. 

Cheers for the response guys, think I will go for the MWS and build an mk18.

[Bada Bing]

The Marui MWS is a great choice. For years I always thought / dreamt that a TM gas M4 would be great, seeing as my previous Inokatsu 09 SOPMOD, WE HK416 and WE M16 couldn't cut it. The only other candidate that came close was the GHK. Aside from the wearing on the bolt carrier from the catch, the system was/is damned near perfect.

 

Imo to get the best out of the GHK system, it would have to be used with C02. Either with the C02 mags or gg devil hunter modded. It runs amazingly on that fuel.

 

However I chose the TM as its too expensive to buy different kinds of gas, that and it's renowned hop, consistency, great shooting experience, finish ...etc etc... You know you have something special when people hate you in cqb. My Mk18 configuration dominated last Sunday.

 

Yep...Honzo's right. Slap on the optic and the rifle does the rest.

[icolater]

If you can pick up a g&p with full steel internals at a good price, but don't go for the g&p woc x cause parts will break quick and replacing them is expensive, same goes for the we m4, parts will need to be upgraded quick, that's the beauty of the ghk, it's great value when u consider all the innards are steel. The marui m4 seems to be holding up well on green, but I would wait a little bit longer as I'm sure problems will eventually arise.

[BioRage]

Didn't read through the posts. (Money not being a factor here)

 

1) TM MWS GBBR

1/2) GHK M4 GBBR

 

Marui will shine in a year or so, when there are a lot more upgrade parts. - Also a 100% innovative new design.

 

Personal EXP:

 

I've been through 2 GHK m4's, and they are solid OOTB, and perform very well in the winter on GG, and CO2. Downside, it's still a WA platform.

 

I currently run a GHK 105, and it's superb. 

 

Haven't shot a MWS, but from most people, the trigger is squishy (but gets better over time?), Can't handle GG/Propane to well, but nothing you can't fix with aftermarket upgrades. +Bonus for OEM cerakote. 

 

Personal voice:

 

Either GHK or MWS. - Everyone already knows Marui gets crazy support, and you can expect it for the MWS. 

[CaptCalvin]

Hopefully the MWS doesn't need the support in terms of internals. Looks like it'd be a gnarly piece to work with.

[BioRage]

Hopefully the MWS doesn't need the support in terms of internals. Looks like it'd be a gnarly piece to work with.

 

Only thing i've seen break is the buffer; but there's replacements for that already :3

[Alias1983]

Ghk ftw

Only problems with we I have had was user error, and the bad vsr hop system.

 

I don't like it, no sir I don't like it, the new setup is just as bad from what I hear.

 

The aeg hop on the ghk can be annoying but it's very consistent and if you have adjustment problems cut a notch in the barrel nut.

 

Not to mention you can do all them fantastic aeg hopup systems like r/ir/g whatever and it will be better than a maple leaf bucking by far.

[NonEx]

Not much love for the WE platform?

 

I have not used any other platforms but I really like my WE M4 GBBR and I have not heard much bad things about the latest versions of it out of the box.

 

Nothing has broken on mine. Tinkered a bit and tuned it and what not.

 

Running stock internals until they break, then replace with new stock internals, rinse and repeat

 

New hop up rubber and a better inner barrel is pretty much the only thing you have to replace to get it in shape IMO.

 

WE GBBRs over all are pretty good out of the box, and WE has the most offerings in terms of model variations and a lot of them using the M4 mags across different models is a plus if you want to have more than one for example.

 

Been keeping an eye on the WE P90 GBBR thread and I have to say that one is not very good out of the box, well, not for long anyways it seems.

 

Also their M14 (is that what it's called? The long semi auto rifle thingie) has some issues that I have heard of.

 

But M4 platform, SCAR, MP5, G36, AK etc. are not bad actually. Both from my limited personal experience and from what I hear and see out and about.

 

Also tons of aftermarket support and parts. And WE OEM parts can be sourced if you get in touch with the right shops.

[Alias1983]

Not much love for the WE platform?

 

I have not used any other platforms but I really like my WE M4 GBBR and I have not heard much bad things about the latest versions of it out of the box.

 

Nothing has broken on mine. Tinkered a bit and tuned it and what not.

 

Running stock internals until they break, then replace with new stock internals, rinse and repeat

 

New hop up rubber and a better inner barrel is pretty much the only thing you have to replace to get it in shape IMO.

 

WE GBBRs over all are pretty good out of the box, and WE has the most offerings in terms of model variations and a lot of them using the M4 mags across different models is a plus if you want to have more than one for example.

 

Been keeping an eye on the WE P90 GBBR thread and I have to say that one is not very good out of the box, well, not for long anyways it seems.

 

Also their M14 (is that what it's called? The long semi auto rifle thingie) has some issues that I have heard of.

 

But M4 platform, SCAR, MP5, G36, AK etc. are not bad actually. Both from my limited personal experience and from what I hear and see out and about.

 

Also tons of aftermarket support and parts. And WE OEM parts can be sourced if you get in touch with the right shops.

Only problem with the wem14 is the trigger box is multi piece so over time it comes apart(like kwa uppers).

 

But you just need to get the ratech trigger box and your good to go.

 

The barrel and bucking in mine are really nice quality, I've tinkered and tuned my hop for .28-30 but I know high wind will be an issue. Also if you don't get the mag in right the nozzle will die.

[icolater]

I kinda like WE GBBRs as well, I curantly own the g36c, scar L, ACR and ak 74u. And I completely agree with replacing parts with OEM parts as the few aftermarket ra tech parts I tried were a terrible fit. The GHK is great because it comes with steel parts included, I'm a not a fan of the stupid hop and the way you access it but performance on co2 is great, my favourite system is the g&p wocs with full steel parts and Pmags (other WA mags are *suitcase*) as you can get cool cnced receviers and has soo many aftermarket parts available, but they are over priced when compared to the GHK and are not as good OOTB (few little mods needed for optimum performance). But each to there own I suppose.

[Siavash]

I own 2 WE M4's but mine have had many issues, over the years. And has made me think twice about it. Plus mine are both RA tech Lvl2 upgraded..

[3vi1-D4n]

I have had/used in field/in possession for a period of time (excluding numbers I fixed/modded/upgraded for friends)

 

WE M4 Closed Bolt

WE M4 Open Bolt  (x3)

WE M16A1

WE SCAR-L (x2)

WE MP7 (x2)

WE SMG8

WE AK PMC (x2)

WE G36C/E (x2)

G&P M4 WOC

ACM M4 (x2)

JG M4

VFC M4 (x3)

VFC HK417

VFC MP5 (x3)

Viper M4

Inokatsu M4

KSC MP7

KSC MP9

Maruzen VZ61

 

If it includes platforms I have fixed or worked on:

WE M14

WE ACR

WE MP5

WE SCAR-H

KSC M4

VFC HK416/HK416C

GHK M4

GHK G5

GHK AK conversion kit

GHK AKM

 

--------------------

GHK M4 is the most cost effective and durable M4 you can get.  Price of a GHK M4 with all the steel bits OOTB you won't be able to get a VFC or WE M4 with the same steel bits.  Performance OOTB is also better than a VFC or a WE M4 OOTB.

 

However, a WE M4/M16 stock with V2/VN mags are fairly reliable and with a small mods to the stock hop rubber and flute valve spring, will outperform the GHK quite easily.

 

VFC M4, is however very tricky to tune, but when it does work it works well.  The VFC M4 is the most dimensionally accurate of the GBB M4.

 

--------------------

For the best technically functioning GBBR without gunsmithing knowhow, the GHK G5 wins (still does have leaky mag issues). Followed by WE G36 and GHK M4.

 

For the best technically functioning GBBR with gunsmithing knowhow and constant maintenance, its a tough one.  With enough knowhow, VFCs, WEs, GHKs, and KSCs are roughly as reliable and well performing.  VFC and WA systems (G&P/Inokatsu/Vipers) have issues generally with gas efficiency, and can't be fixed.  WE has issues with overly strong flute valve springs and parts and materials, and requires some re-engineering to ensure performance.

 

GHK G5 and the WE G36 are the most cost effective GBBRs, with most of its cost is in the magazines. and requires less maintenance than all other GBBRs.  Most airsoft practical is definately the GHK G5, great all weather performance, reliable, and lightweight. 

 

If I were to get into GBBRs I would definitely get the G5.  However, carrying a gun that has no real world equivalent and is much too light, is probably not my thing.

[icolater]

Nice breakdown, did you try g&p Pmags with the woc or ino you tested cause they are miles better then the other wa mags available and actually make the platform perform quite well IMO. Also the new KJW version 3 is meant to be ok, any experiance with that platform ?

[CaptCalvin]

Gas efficiency in my experience all came down to how well sealed the system is under cycling. Things that can affect this would be bolt bounce, nozzle to gas route seal, nozzle to bolt carrier seal, and nozzle core to nozzle shell seal. Most people already know to ensure good seal in the bolt group assembly, and people are starting to wise up to the bolt bounce. What seems to be eluding people right now is the nozzle to gas route seal. One thing that kills a good gas route seal that most people don't seem to be aware of is the front to back play of the magazine in the magazine well. If you insert a magazine and it rocks back and forth in the mag well this will cause accelerated wear on the gas route. You can keep shimming and shimming but it's not going to stop it from happening.

 

What I have observed on some VFC AR's recently is that they've taken measures against this back and forth magazine play. Newer receivers are machined with tighter tolerances while some older transitional receivers came with a plastic insert wedged in between the trigger guard and the receiver that butts up against the spine of the magazine.

 

Now my VFC didn't come with any such measures. It was a bottom of the barrel sub $300 Saber series so I imagine this was for cost cutting. When I first got it and promptly eliminated the bolt bounce it had an amazing rate of fire and got through a complete mag dump with no slow down. But after about a dozen mags it began to slow down significantly. Rate of fire dipped below 600rpm, recoil felt weaker, and got sluggish towards the end of a mag dump. I then tried replicating VFC's plastic insert solution and bam it came back to life. Rate of fire gone back up to around 750, the recoil rattles my teeth, and can cycle about 80 to 90 times continuously on full auto before it gets too cold. 10000 rounds later and it's still shooting the same. Haven't had to replace a single thing on it since.

[NonEx]

I own 2 WE M4's but mine have had many issues, over the years. And has made me think twice about it. Plus mine are both RA tech Lvl2 upgraded..

 

I am sorry to say that I believe the RA Tech part in that equation is your main problem... :|