Brigg Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Does anyone know of any hammer springs for the we m4 that have increased strength? I'm working on a "supar sekrat" custom build that will need one in order to work. Long story short, it will be using a co2 magazine from a different mfg, and the we hammer doesn't seem strong enough to depress the valve all the way. I've seen old tsc brand springs on some sites, but nothing in stock. Anyone have any suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 You can add pre-tension to the original spring by bending out the arms some more then retemper. Can be done safely to maybe 120% original stiffness. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 How would you suggest doing the retempering? Since this is likely my only actual option. Link to post Share on other sites
NonEx Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Heat it up with a lighter, bend it, then on it to cool it down Just kidding, the cow will tell you how to do it properly! Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted June 22, 2016 Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Heat, stretch, dunk in motor oil. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 That sounds like it would make it brittle, without drawing the temper down... Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2016 Here's a preview of what I'm working on. I don't want to make a thread about it yet since it may not work out though. The wood is temporary, and was used to get the neccesary dimensions before making aluminum blocks. There's an extended feed ramp bridge that feeds the double stack rounds into a standard WE Hopup, but the loading nozzle is custom machined (and not complete yet) and the BCG is modified. There's also an extended valve knocker. So far, it feeds relatively reliably and the valve knocker strikes every time, but I just get a small poof of gas when it should be dumping it all. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Heat in toaster oven at 350-400F for 15-20min then allow to cool slowly in the oven when turned off for about another 15-20min. Do not overheat until red then quench in oil! That will harden it and make it brittle. Edit: OH LAWD I DIDNT SEE THE 9MM AR!!! Fantastic job mate. AFAIK the CO2 valves on KWC are also throttled. If you were to convert them to use green gas it would be advisable to change them out (I think TM hi-capa valves fit) to get more gas out. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I assume there's no valves I can replace them with and still use c02 though right? If I could get a co2 valve with a weaker spring it would also solve the issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 If you harden something it will be more brittle, It will snap other than bend. Link to post Share on other sites
Gunnman Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Here's a preview of what I'm working on. I don't want to make a thread about it yet since it may not work out though. The wood is temporary, and was used to get the neccesary dimensions before making aluminum blocks. There's an extended feed ramp bridge that feeds the double stack rounds into a standard WE Hopup, but the loading nozzle is custom machined (and not complete yet) and the BCG is modified. There's also an extended valve knocker. So far, it feeds relatively reliably and the valve knocker strikes every time, but I just get a small poof of gas when it should be dumping it all. That is quite an impressive build. I was hoping there would be conversion kits for a gbb 9mm AR by now. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 I assume there's no valves I can replace them with and still use c02 though right? If I could get a co2 valve with a weaker spring it would also solve the issue. I suppose you could fit standard valves with harder nylon or urethane seals to take CO2. I think that's how KJW does it. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Here's something strange. I'm wondering if that puff of co2 might be enough to cycle the bolt. I only seem to get 30 or so puffs before it runs out of co2. Are the kwc valves designed to only let out that small amount? Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 The exit hole is much smaller compared to regular valves. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/619zskAY8wL._SL1500_.jpg But are you firing the gun without a bolt yet? Isn't the valve knocker delayer keeping the valve open? The Uzi is notoriously known as a gas hog, barely having enough gas to shoot out all the bbs in full auto. Link to post Share on other sites
Katotaka Posted June 24, 2016 Report Share Posted June 24, 2016 When I saw the title I was like "what the...... my WE rifles run easily with just half of a hammer spring!" Back to topic, very nice project! Any chance to run this on green gas instead? To my understanding, normal gas valves won't survive CO2 pressure, normal NBR o-rings grow few times larger when exposed to liquid CO2, the valve pic RC linked above uses some harder material and tapered surface to address that issue. Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Update, it's chambering rounds into the hopup and I can shoot them one at a time. It does seem to vent the gas now, so that may have resolved after making a new valve knocker. The nozzle isn't finished yet and will probably need one or more revisions, but it seems to work for the time being. Also I finished the front half of the MAGWELL block in aluminum now: Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Oh, and I should probably show how it all looks so far. the mags lock in place at this point. they dont drop free or anything. Edit: I switched to an A2 upper and lower for now. The lower will be staying, but the upper will eventually be swapped out for an old slicksides upper, and I'll be getting the 9mm case deflector and ejection port cover. Link to post Share on other sites
jv83 Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 That is amazing! I tip my hat to you sir. Link to post Share on other sites
vietnammarine Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Great looking project. Wish you all goes well. One question, the A2 Upper is WE too??? Or conversion??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 That is amazing! I tip my hat to you sir. Well don't congratulate me yet, it doesn't exactly work. It's back to just puffing out co2 again, so it loads rounds and shoots them. But they just fart out of the barrel. Great looking project. Wish you all goes well. One question, the A2 Upper is WE too??? Or conversion??? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's a real upper, WE never made an a2 upper, even though they showed one way back. I'm only using it right now cause its the only one that fits this lower. It's a newer lower that doesn't accept any of my older WE uppers. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 25, 2016 Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Not enough poof to cycle? Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 25, 2016 Well, I don't know if there isn't enough gas, or if the nozzle isn't designed correctly. It's probably a bit of both, mostly the nozzle. Due to the shape, It has to use a kwa flute valve rather then a bulb type. Cause opening it up for a bulb would blow out the sides. I'm a bit less familiar with the flute type so it may not be functioning. Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Try a very weak recoil spring Link to post Share on other sites
Brigg Posted June 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 I don't think it's really a question of the return spring. I think the design of my nozzle is very off, and the initial problem of the hammer spring still remains. I'm just not getting the right amount of output from the magazine. I might have to play with the placement of the valve lock engagement. If the valve is locked further forward it might stay in a position where it's letting out more gas. After modifying the nozzles back half a bit was able to get it to blow back but just a small amount. So either the volume of gas released isn't enough or the nozzle can't hold all of it. It's hard to tell really. And it's still entirely possible that it can't be done. Or, at least not with what is available to me. Since I do have it shooting single shots, it would seem that it is possible, but without stronger hammer springs around, it would be hard to know if that's the issue. I will say though that I'm really happy that I've even gotten it to chamber and fire single rounds though. I wasnt sure it would even do that at first. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted June 26, 2016 Report Share Posted June 26, 2016 Convert to green gas? Link to post Share on other sites
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