Dimitri MdP Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I know it sounds really absurd, so let me explain the context: recently I've found myself playing a lot in a indoors extreme CQB scenario, were the longest shots are just about 15m.So I was thinking optimising a barrel/hop assembly for my G17, with a non-hop setup and using .12s to squeeze just a little extra speed. Are there any .12s made with the same quality as top-tier .20, .25, .30, or are all of them just crappy bbs intended for low power springers? Link to post Share on other sites
Deve Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I bought a bag of Marui .12s many moons ago with the full intention of playing with different weights in my Maruzen Remmy 870s shells. I never have quite got round to it yet and the bag sits somewhere deep in my kit store. I assume that being Marui, they'll be about the best quality you'd be likely to find without rough edges and wonky moulding. Link to post Share on other sites
Got Wood? Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 .2s aren't exactly expensive? And you know they're good quality (dependant on brand). You'd be risking breaking your gun to save a couple of quid a year/6 months? Link to post Share on other sites
Dimitri MdP Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 .2s aren't exactly expensive? And you know they're good quality (dependant on brand). ??? it's not a matter of money, it's to reach the end of the very short field faster. Did you even read the post before commenting? Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 There are definately good quality .12g BBs around, Tokyo Marui 0.12g are as good as any of the decent .2g/.25g BBs, KWC .12g are also good but I've never really seen those for sale. SMK Plinkers were also good and I still have a big bag of those from yonks ago but they were only sold in the UK under that brand and I don't know who the OEM was for them, being willing to import them or not will really determine if you can get hold of decent .12g ammo though. But yes with decent .12g there is no more chance of them breaking the gun than using .2g, it's not like bad .2g BBs are uncommon. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Yup, TM .12g are as good as any bb can get. Freaky how far and true they fly in those Gindan springers. Link to post Share on other sites
JCheeseright Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 The time to target difference at that distance is fractions of a fraction of a second, you *may* be able to measure the difference but I'm absolutely certain you wouldn't be able to notice it. Link to post Share on other sites
Got Wood? Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 ??? it's not a matter of money, it's to reach the end of the very short field faster. Did you even read the post before commenting?Sorry I didn't realise that time to target was the aim here. Even so, like Cheese says, you're talking milliseconds. If anyone you're playing with is able to dodge a projectile travelling at 350 feet a second over a distance of 15m, then they are supernatural and you'll never beat them! Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I bought a bag of Marui .12s many moons ago with the full intention of playing with different weights in my Maruzen Remmy 870s shells. I never have quite got round to it yet and the bag sits somewhere deep in my kit store. I assume that being Marui, they'll be about the best quality you'd be likely to find without rough edges and wonky moulding. I did the same for moscarts and tbh I prefer .2 Link to post Share on other sites
Dimitri MdP Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Yup, it might not be that much, but I think shaving those miliseconds could make a difference when the guys are running perpendicular to my shooting direction. I know using .20s instead of the regular .25s - .30s I use for everything else certainly did. Exposure times in this field are ridiculously low.Gotta try those Tokyo Marui .12 and if I see any real advantage then I'll set a spare hop assembly for it. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
bankz5152 Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 It won't make a difference. If anything could be a hindrance where the player youre targeting does not register the hit due to the very lightweight bb.... Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Loads of ney-sayers here. I've used TM .12s in CQB and they work really well. I've also used a few other brand (and no brand) .12s and some have been rather good, of course some have also been utter scrap. I then went and bought a 200,000 round box of guarder .28 ammo and use that in everything now, so I stopped experimenting. Link to post Share on other sites
MrKingTaco1776 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I can understand where you're coming from, but you aren't going to notice much of a difference between a .12g bb and a .20g bb. In fact, that lower weight bb will hit with much less force. Kinetic Energy (KE) = 0.5 * M * V^2 Let's just say that you'll get 400 fps out of that 0.12g bb and you'll get 350 fps out of the 0.2g bb. 400 fps = 121.92 m/s and 350 fps = 106.68 m/s KE = 0.5 * (0.12g) * (121.92m/s)^2 = 0.891 J KE = 0.5 * (0.20g) * (106.68m/s)^2 = 1.14 J Even with a much lower fps, the 0.20g bb will hit with more force. Just my two cents. Link to post Share on other sites
Alias1983 Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 .2s aren't exactly expensive? And you know they're good quality (dependant on brand). You'd be risking breaking your gun to save a couple of quid a year/6 months? Please tell me how a lighter bb will "break the gun?" Link to post Share on other sites
Got Wood? Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Please tell me how a lighter bb will "break the gun?"Dependant on the gun, and the BB.... - could break apart on impact from nozzle, pieces could go into gearbox via nozzle. - could tear hop rubber as it travels. - could disintegrate and leave marks/residue as it travels down barrel. - could jam in the hop unit, dependant on where, could jam nozzle, and crack nozzle or tappet plate. - could jam in magazine - could jam in speedloader Link to post Share on other sites
Dentonboy Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 Echoing the above, IIRC from my 'playing with springers in the garden days', Marui 0.12s are pretty damn good quality. Very smooth and certainly the only brand I'd try in a GBB. Link to post Share on other sites
ED-SKaR Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Dependant on the gun, and the BB.... - could break apart on impact from nozzle, pieces could go into gearbox via nozzle. - could tear hop rubber as it travels. - could disintegrate and leave marks/residue as it travels down barrel. - could jam in the hop unit, dependant on where, could jam nozzle, and crack nozzle or tappet plate. - could jam in magazine - could jam in speedloader All of these are due to bad quality BBs not to do with the weight of them. If you use good quality .12 you will not have these problems. And hell, I've had these problems with blaster .2 and .25s in the past, because they are poor quality but mid weight. Link to post Share on other sites
Got Wood? Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Yes, correct. But as we've discovered in this thread the only people who make a decent .12 is Marui. So you're limited to 1 hard to get source of ammo. Meaning that the stuff that's as easy to get hold of as .2 and heavier, is going to be bad quality stuff, and cause the issues mentioned above. Link to post Share on other sites
Skarclaw Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 This is making me nostalgic for the days where you'd get SMK bb's in a transparent grenade bottle, running about with hfc spas 12 and TM mini aegs haha Link to post Share on other sites
Dimitri MdP Posted November 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Thanks for all the comments. Got myself some Tokyo Marui .12g bbs. They are quite good quality, perfectly spherical and polished, and overall really consistent. I didn't notice any loss in accuracy, nor any problems with breaking, jams, residues or anything like that. They are, quite simply, just as any other bb I use, only lighter.Energy loss was present, but not as bad as MrKingTaco1776 anticipated. The glock was shooting 320FPS on .20s, shoots 405FPS on .12s. So it's 0.95J vs 0.91J. Believe it or not, that little bit of extra speed actually made a difference on those snap shooting engagements at extremely close ranges. I'm using the standard hop bucking set practically to zero, only just enough to prevent the bb from rolling down the barrel.Remember, this is for a field on which the max distance is just 20m, normal engagements are even closer, at about 5-10m, sometimes with shots at point blank. The .12s really helped getting those hits at the "long"·range with extremely short exposure times. Would I use it for any other scenario? of course not When playing in open fields, or bigger CQB fields, I'll stick to my Maple Leaf tuned hop assembly and use .28s, so I can reach out to normal AEG ranges and use my pistol as a secondary gun (that is, as a backup of my primary). But whenever I need a extremely fast <20m hitter, I'm going for my non-hoped .12s Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.