Back to sniping and mancraft-ed set up help

[Isamu]

Hey guys! been eyeing the HPA/CO2 bolt kits for a while since I decided to go back to sniping again (many years have passed since then), but things seem to have changed a bit and I feel quite out of the game ^_^U so I need some guidance and opinions on it

 

The set up I want to build is as follows:

 

* SPR SR40 - I read it is quite VSR compatible and looks different to an actual VSR. Price tag helps too

 

* Action Army Hop up Chamber

 

* Maple leaf Autobot 70 degrees hop up rubber

 

* Prometheus flat nub

 

* Tightbore barrel 300mm - No idea which one to use, I heard people use the action army ones, but these are budget/hard to find barrels, any advice is welcome. please keep in mind i'm in a medium range budget here 

 

* Silverback Gspec alluminum spacers

 

* Mancraft SDIK

* Mancraft MARS CO2 regulator

 

* 0.40g BBs

 

So, my main concerns, besides the general opinion on the set up, are:

 

Which barrel should I use?

Is there anything else I should throw into the mix to improve range?

Can I expect this set up to achieve torso sized hits at +90m?

 

Thanks for your help and expertise =)

[shmook]

For those ranges, you want consistency, consistency, consistency.

 

Make sure your air (CO2) seals are spot on, get the lowest fps variance you can.

 

Shim your hop arm too. I would also use more barrel spacers. Folk buy a pack of 2 and call it done. My g spec and L96 had 4 or 5.

 

Can't help with barrels, I was old school and ran PDI 6.01 barrels, but the new trend seems to be wide bore.

 

Both mine were 90+ metre guns though. Not guessed, properly measured.

 

Good luck, it's such a faff tuning a gun to those tolerances

[Isamu]

Thanks, man! I will emphasize "consistency" to the tech who will be making the installation and get more spacers =) (I can't tech even if my life depended on it, I'm only good for researching and getting the parts ^_^U  )

 

Certainly, I mostly use 6.03 or 6.20, I think those are good performance/value barrel types

 

BTW: I read that these CO2 set ups incur in high energy creeping, should I pursue such behaviour in my gun? the more energy, the longuer range and precision achieved. Is this correct?

[shmook]

I know nothing about CO2 guns, sorry!

[DarkLite]

Don't go widebore. They have no discernable benefit except for dramatically reducing FPS in GBB rifles.

Get a PDI 6.05mm inner barrel if you can afford it. If not, get a 6.03mm and if you're really on a budget, get a PDI 6.01mm RAVEN barrel as they are very good for the price you pay.

 

Don't bother with the Prometheus flat nub, you can make your own out of a silicone rubber sheet for less than a few pennies.

 

Hop-up rubber choice is fine. R hop would be best but it's finicky to get right.

 

Barrel spacers can be made by hand quite easily with Electrical tape. No need to spend money on aluminium spacers, they work just as well and you could literally fill the outer barrel with a few rolls.

 

If you really want to be ultra solid and lock down all possible vibrations, get yourself a can of expanding foam, block off all the action areas in the stock and fill it up with the foam.
 

AA hop up unit is a good choice.

[Isamu]

Hey DL, thanks for the advices, I just wanted to use the prommy flat nub because I have a couple in the spares box and to make the tech's life a bit easier, people here in Spain do not know much about advanced hop configurations or r-hoping stuff. not that they arre bad techs, it's just most info is in english and very few actually speaks it fluently enough and research about stuff. So my idea is getting a good set up list and hand the parts over to the tech guy =)

[Dimitri MdP]

CO2 guns usually achieve more Joule Creep than any other source. Whether you want that or not depends on your (and your field's) position on joule creeping. It will certainly help get more range (and more importantly, get there quicker), but it can be deemed as unfair and even illegal. So be aware of that, and if you decide to creep, adjust your MED accordingly.

As for the inner barrel, you need a tightbore. In a CO2 / HPA sniper having a widebore will only achieve extreme turbulence in front of the bb, which will ruin accuracy. And of course, an extremely inefficient and loud system. A tightbore will make a more efficient system, and again, provide more JC. 

imho Maple Leaf Autobot buckings are the best around, even better than R-hops. So I would make my build from there. You need a compatible inner barrel, so choose either Maple Leaf 6.02 428mm inner barrel, or Action Army 6.01 430mm inner barrel. Those buckings require inner barrels with long, wide, unbridged and rounded windows, so the lists pretty much ends there. Maple Leaf would be my choice, it's stainless steel, true to the manufacture's claimed ID, beautifully crowned and fits the bucking like a glove. They are surprisingly economic, but imho they are better than other much higher priced ones.


You can get them at Asian stores as WGCShop or eHobbyAsia.

Seriously, don't go widebore. And don't go with PDI either, they are bridged and too narrow, so trying to fit a ML bucking will require some serious modding of the barrel.

As for the nub, the Prometheus flat is known to be surprisingly incompatible with Maple Leaf buckings. You need concave a nub / hop arm (again, Maple Leaf) for perfect performance, but if you are unable to find it, standard round type nub / hop arm works better than flat. 

Don't know how good or bad is the hop chamber in that particular rifle, but if it's good then I'd just use ML hop arm + ML inner barrel + ML autobot bucking. If the chamber is bogus, I would replace it for an Action Army chamber + ML concave nub (normally listed as "ML hop tensioner" or "ML Omega nub") + ML inner barrel + ML autobot bucking.


With that setup and some really good quality .40s (like Geoff) you can definitely get hits at 90m. On CO2 guns you can even achieve 110m, or even 120 if you really do your work. But bear in mind your gun being able to achieve such hits at the range and actually being able to do so in the game are two separate things. Specially since velocity quickly drops with the distance, so hitting a moving target or an aware enemy that is able to see your bbs coming gets extremely difficult past 70-80m. And even more difficult is for them to feel it (*cough* and much more so, for them to call it *cough*)

So my advice is to calibrate your gun for consistent, relatively quick hits at 80m, and don't try to push it much more than that.You won't find many oportunities in the game that call for such long shots anyway.

[Isamu]

Dimitri: Thanks for the advices, I was actually a bit worried about the right barrel with the right hop window, I found a 310mm long Maple leaf one, so lucky there since I want to use a short BASR for faster and more agressive gameplay. I read the prommy nub was actually good in these set ups, but I noticed I actually have a maple leaf concave nub in the bin box, so i'm covered there =D

 

Pretty excited with the build, even if it won't be completed soon =)

 

Thanks everyone for the advices, keep them comming!

[Dimitri MdP]

I read the prommy nub was actually good in these set ups

Well, it didn't work in the setups I've tried. Guess it's a "your mileage may vary" kind of thing. Just try them both and see what works best for you.

 

I can see great potential in this build, please keep us posted on how it turns out.

[Isamu]

Thanks for your kind words, I too see good potential on it, although what most excites me is having a light bolt pull paired with great consistency and performance. Always hated dealing with strong springs back in the day ^_^U

 

BTW: just received the gun along some more goodies from Gunfire and I must say that while plastic body and external cuality seem very nice, internally, without opening it is quite a downer, the cilinder is plain terrible, the nozzle  doesn't look better and pushing forward the cilinder is... complicated since it gets stuck =(

 

Looks like I will have to search for a new cilinder+nozzle, maybe one of those Maple leaf black ones...

 

PS: Well, for 90€ shipped I should expect this kind of stuff

[Dimitri MdP]

Looks like I will have to search for a new cilinder+nozzle, maybe one of those Maple leaf black ones...

Sounds like a plan. Just avoid EdGI and any other oversized nozzle, they'll chop the bucking in no time.

[Isamu]

Found the maple leaf kit, cilinder, nozzle, spring, spring guide... I believe most of the parts won´t be needed, but the price difference between buying them separately and together is not a big deal. Seems like I will be bragging about having a "full maple leaf gun" instead of the tipical "full PDI gun" we usually hear around here

[Isamu]

After watching some videos, I was wrong, seems like I only need the cylinder and not the rest of the parts, so better find a single cylinder. I actually wanted to use a black one (not a fan of chrome stuff) but I only found the maple leaf black one at EBB, who are not known for having an accurate stock on, well, anything, so I found a much much cheaper option in the PPS cylinder, I just don't know if it is actually compatible with the mancraft kit since the diameter is a bit narrower than the original cylinders =( 

 

Anyone knows if this PPS cylinder is compatible, or where ca I find the answer, I have been googleing around but I found no answer

 

Thanks =)

[Isamu]

Sorry for the nechro, but after some months of gathering parts and trying to build it along some more skilled friends, the project is almost finished and will be fielded as soon as possible, we just found a weird problem.

 

A full co2 cannister only provides enough power for 6 or 7 shots at 545FPS power, and we added 3cm of volume reducer to the cilinder to match it with the 300mm long 6.03mm wide barrel.

 

Any idea why could this be happening? We searched for leaks but it does not seem to be leaking

 

Now some thoughts while building it

 

All the parts fitted like a globe, except the metal part holding the hop up to the barrel and the plastic rings around the PPS cilinder, nothing some light filling did not fix.

 

Very happy with the compatibility and fitting, the only gripe I can think of is that mancraft regulator is too wide for this stock, but that is not a problem with the system or the gun =)

[Lone_Bullet]

You sure your co2 can is full?

You'd hear such a big leak right?

Witchcraft...

 

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

[Isamu]

Well, bulb was unopened, but it was an old one, like before paying in euros not sure if that could be the reason, but I believe CO2 bulbs do not leak with the pass of time =S

[Dimitri MdP]

Try a new bulb and see... a 12g canister should last about 100 shots at that power.

[Isamu]

Yes, that´s what we calculated, around 110 rounds or so, we even put 3cm of volume reducer since the barrel is a 300mm long and 6.03 diameter Maple leaf, so we even expected more shots. I will be ordering some new bulbs from Taiwangun (cheapest I found) and see what happens.

 

I noticed that when putting a new bulb, a lot of air is vented from the brass valve in the side of the regulator, I was told that it was venting the excesive pressure, but it sound like a lot of air to me =S could be that i'm such a noob in gas systems to be honest, but easiness of bolt pull is making me love this gun already =D and I want it to perform to the best of its potential 

[Dimitri MdP]

There should be no excesive pressure in a CO2 bulb anyway. In your place, I'd contact mancraft and talk directly to them about the issue. Sounds like something is off. 
But please remember to come back with the answer

[Isamu]

Will do! I have already ordered some bulbs from Taiwangun, just to rule out the possibility of old bulbs causing the issue, if it does not improve, I will contact mancraft and come back with the results.

 

Do you think I should use facebook or an email to their shop?

[Isamu]

Well, bad news, I tried the new bulbs from taiwangun and noticed that the problem persists, fun thing is that while I have a bb chambered, the air will be vented with a slight hissing and small "puffs" of air, after the round has been shot, this stops, I don´t know if it is due a lemon unit or bad installation =(

[jal3]

A player i know also has a rifle like that, but i can't remember if it's mancraft. Definately HPA. It has two muzzle plops (suppressed), maybe 0,3sec apart.

[Isamu]

Thanks for the input Jal3, this is ot my case, as soon as I cock the gun, I start to listen "plops" in the regulator from the gas leaking, If i don't shoot the "plops" continue until I shoot 

[Dimitri MdP]

Seriously, contact Mancraft, they should be able to help

[Isamu]

Yes, I contacted them, but since we are on holidays + weekend, they have not answered yet, so meanwhile, I just wanted to update the thread and see if someone had an idea about this =)