Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sturm

GHK AKM

Recommended Posts

I have grown quite sick of my WE AK PMC. It is a gigantic money pit, and I will never truly be happy with it (unless I could somehow obtain a steel bolt carrier and outer barrel, which do not exist).

 

I've been thinking a bit more about a GHK AK, particularly the AKM. I know they have an excellent reputation, and certainly look the part. The only reason why I chose the WE in the first place was because of its full travel bolt course (which is awesome). The WE, however, requires a massive amount of work in order to fulfill the look I am aiming for (most of which I am unable to do myself). At this point, I am looking at possibly canning the WE and picking up a GHK AKM.

 

However, I have a few concerns.

 

-How underwhelming is the GHK's half travel bolt? Is it glaringly obvious, or can it be mostly forgotten about?

-Does the Samoon recoil kit reduce the speed of the bolt travel and thus reduce the ROF of the rifle?

-Can it easily be made to be almost full steel?

 

About the third question, most of the GHK is steel out of the box. However, most of the internals (not that I care), the bolt carrier, and the outer barrel are pot metal. The outer barrel has many steel replacement options (including Samoon). However, the bolt carrier does not. RA Tech made a steel carrier a while ago. They appear to be discontinued. Are they compatible with current-production GHK AKs? Are there any other options for going this route?

 

My focus on steel parts is predominantly due to my obsession with 'consistency.' I also own a GHK M4, and in order for an AK to 'fit in,' it also needs to have a steel bolt carrier and outer barrel like the M4. I do not like having a gun that has mixed pot metal and steel parts, even if most of the gun is steel (besides internals, as long as they are not liable to crumble into dust). This is my 'philosophy' for every gun I own. Every GBBR I own must 'mirror' each other closely material-wise. I am fine owning WE GBBRs that have a steel receiver and aluminium outer barrels and pot metal bolts, but am not satisfied with a few of those types of guns and one or two other GBBRs that have steel/aluminium receivers and steel outer barrels and/or bolt carriers. Such a situation does not satisfy my perspectives of 'consistency.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think WE has issues.  Wait till you see the GHK.

 

- Yes the bolt travel is underwhelming.  So is the recoil.  Makes up with it with gas efficiency.

- Samoon kit does reduce speed of travel, reduce ROF and also reduce GHK's renowned gas efficiency

- It cannot be made to almost full steel.  By current understanding, there are no bolt carriers, or barrel trunion that are steel that will fit the current production model.  You can only get hammers and triggers and steel barrels.  Even with steel barrels the GHK is still much too light compared with a WE.

 

RA tech bolt carriers were designed for the first gen GHK AKs.

 

Of course what I didn't indicate is the famous GHK C-clips that holds the AK hammer/trigger pins in place.  They pop out during use, and then you are hanging with hammers and triggers not striking etc.  I could possibly hot glue the c-clips.  Then the famous GHK valve leakages.   I had to fix 5 last week.  WE valves have less potential areas of malfunction compared with the GHK.

 

Also GHK AKs would also require new barrel, VSR hop rubber and new hop unit to have worthwhile accuracy.  WEs would only require new barrel and hop up (if you know what you are doing, then 2 minutes with a dremel and will give WEs laser accuracy).

 

So, money pit #1 or money pit #2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think WE has issues. Wait till you see the GHK.

 

- Yes the bolt travel is underwhelming. So is the recoil. Makes up with it with gas efficiency.

- Samoon kit does reduce speed of travel, reduce ROF and also reduce GHK's renowned gas efficiency

- It cannot be made to almost full steel. By current understanding, there are no bolt carriers, or barrel trunion that are steel that will fit the current production model. You can only get hammers and triggers and steel barrels. Even with steel barrels the GHK is still much too light compared with a WE.

 

RA tech bolt carriers were designed for the first gen GHK AKs.

 

Of course what I didn't indicate is the famous GHK C-clips that holds the AK hammer/trigger pins in place. They pop out during use, and then you are hanging with hammers and triggers not striking etc. I could possibly hot glue the c-clips. Then the famous GHK valve leakages. I had to fix 5 last week. WE valves have less potential areas of malfunction compared with the GHK.

 

Also GHK AKs would also require new barrel, VSR hop rubber and new hop unit to have worthwhile accuracy. WEs would only require new barrel and hop up (if you know what you are doing, then 2 minutes with a dremel and will give WEs laser accuracy).

 

So, money pit #1 or money pit #2?

Well, the GHK could be *almost* all steel, besides the pot metal internals and bolt carrier. I thought current production GHKs have steel triggers and top cover release buttons?

 

Are you suggesting I would be better off with the WE? It would be awesome if I could make the WE all steel besides the bolt carrier and outer barrel (this would require a lot of LCT parts, and technical abilities that I do not have). Do you know if RA Tech or Hephaestus or whatever will release a steel outer barrel eventually?

 

You seem to know your way around GBBR AKs. Are you accepting work at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you accepting work at all?

 

Possibly the best question from you to date.  Indicates that you don't know, and are seeking help.

 

Unfortunately I can only help by internet.  I am so far away it is not really worth while to do much here.  I am 9000km from Shanghai, 10,000km from Los Angeles and 18,000km from London. I might as well be in orbit.

 

If you aren't technically inclined and not a detail person, I suggest staying away from GBB AKs altogether.  I chose the WE over the GHK because I can make them work with less effort.  Both requires effort. 

 

I have had to repair a GHK AK with leaky airseal, leaky mags, broken spring guide, replace broken hammers, replace C clips (dropped out during a game)  etc.  I made my own VSR hop unit, and modified the barrel to take it. 

 

On the  WE I had to replace the spring guide with RA tech version, fix magazine baseplate as it did not charge gas, modify the trigger housing, replace hammer and triggers. Thats excluded the LCT gas tube, RA tech woodkit modification, etc.

 

In the end, after mods, both are about the same range and gas efficiency.  I ended up keeping the WE, as it felt closest to an Izhmash AK in balance and weight.  But they are both time/money pits. 

 

While it would be nice to have a full steel AK like some of the AEGs, it is unnecessary. 

 

- GHK AKM is 2.5kg unloaded and 2.8kg loaded

- WE PMC with an AKM kit is around 2.9kg unloaded and 3.4kg loaded,

- An unloaded Ishmash AKM is 3.1kg.  I also shoot the MAK90s and they are a little heavier.

- A LCT/EL/VFC/G&G AKM is 3.5-3.8kg unloaded

 

The pot metal barrel trunions on the GBB will not break unless you fall on your rifle and even then the receiver will warp before that does.  The only thing you need steel are front and rear sights.  Why would I carry a heavier rifle if the real steel is lighter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While it would be nice to have a full steel AK like some of the AEGs, it is unnecessary. 

 

You would be right.

 

But, as I said. Consistency. However, if I have one gun that has a steel bolt and outer barrel (my M4), I'm going to want ALL of them to have them. My OCD (it is an analogy, I've never formally been diagnosed with OCD, like most people) is so uncontrollable that I cannot bear the possibility of having guns with significant amounts of pot metal. Zinc is *suitcase*. It is used to make bloody coins. I'd rather have the softest, most bendable steel alloy than nasty zamak. It does not make much sense, but that is how my *fruitcage*ed up *albatross* brain (if I even have one at this point) operates. When it comes to this subject, my thinking is pure black and white. I can't see it many other ways.

 

I've thought about abandoning AKs completely, and getting a WE L85. The problem here, is that, well, there are no steel outer barrels available on the market for it.

 

If I am going to keep my WE AK, I'm going to need some someone to literally work on it for me. I've accepted at this point that I am unable to deal with modifying the majority of this stuff. I kind of finally had a breakthrough a few days ago when I butchered my NOS Izhmash lower handguard that I was trying to fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You would be right.

 

But, as I said. Consistency. However, if I have one gun that has a steel bolt and outer barrel (my M4), I'm going to want ALL of them to have them. My OCD (it is an analogy, I've never formally been diagnosed with OCD, like most people) is so uncontrollable that I cannot bear the possibility of having guns with significant amounts of pot metal. Zinc is *suitcase*. It is used to make bloody coins. I'd rather have the softest, most bendable steel alloy than nasty zamak. It does not make much sense, but that is how my *fruitcage*ed up *albatross* brain (if I even have one at this point) operates. When it comes to this subject, my thinking is pure black and white. I can't see it many other ways.

 

I've thought about abandoning AKs completely, and getting a WE L85. The problem here, is that, well, there are no steel outer barrels available on the market for it.

 

If I am going to keep my WE AK, I'm going to need some someone to literally work on it for me. I've accepted at this point that I am unable to deal with modifying the majority of this stuff. I kind of finally had a breakthrough a few days ago when I butchered my NOS Izhmash lower handguard that I was trying to fit.

 

People who tend to plan meticulous plans for things or demand everything else to be perfect, is because they have not discovered their goal/purpose, understand themselves, and have little control over their way in life.

 

I remember people building a replica Steyr AUG fully out of metal.  It was terrible to hold, and was a total disaster.  Likewise with people who over upgrade and over engineer their cars/guns/toys.

 

As for airsoft guns, you have to ask yourself:  Whats the gun's purpose (that I will be using it for),  what is its strengths and weaknesses (ergonomics, mags, range, durability), and what can I do with it?

 

You don't need a steel BCG on an airsoft gun.  A steel BCG usually takes more gas and decreases gas efficiency.  Steel barrels may give you some more rigidity and accuracy but not by much, as you are throwing plastic BBs.  OCD needs to be within logic and reason, and without context or purpose as to why, you will always over-demand.

 

As a serviceman who have spent a sizable amount of time soaked, muddy and loaded with 100lbs on an average day, I demand quite a lot from my airsoft guns; No MOSFETs, able to function after submerged in water or snow, to be able to shoot after emersed in sand, and dropped or collided with a tree.  Even then I don't require steel BCGs or steel barrel, for no reason, particularly if it means that it causes something else to fail (gas endurance, hammer/trigger wear, etc)

 

So live with the limitations of the platforms, or ditch it.   the WE L85 is even more problematic than the WE AK so thats not really an option.  With a steel BCG those guns basically fail, as it destroys the spring guide and barrel trunions.

 

In saying all that I would like to see steel barrels as standard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just stumbled across this post, and I have to drop this here:

 

In short GBB is an art of compromise, you probably won't be satisfied either way, even you ditch AK completely and get a WE L85, still, no.

 

 

 

While I typing this a new reply shows up, yep, pretty much what 3vi1-D4n said.

 

If you love AK and not living in Kalifornistan, go get a RS and rip the range, it could be cheaper.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People who tend to plan meticulous plans for things or demand everything else to be perfect, is because they have not discovered their goal/purpose, understand themselves, and have little control over their way in life.

 

I remember people building a replica Steyr AUG fully out of metal. It was terrible to hold, and was a total disaster. Likewise with people who over upgrade and over engineer their cars/guns/toys.

 

As for airsoft guns, you have to ask yourself: Whats the gun's purpose (that I will be using it for), what is its strengths and weaknesses (ergonomics, mags, range, durability), and what can I do with it?

 

You don't need a steel BCG on an airsoft gun. A steel BCG usually takes more gas and decreases gas efficiency. Steel barrels may give you some more rigidity and accuracy but not by much, as you are throwing plastic BBs. OCD needs to be within logic and reason, and without context or purpose as to why, you will always over-demand.

 

As a serviceman who have spent a sizable amount of time soaked, muddy and loaded with 100lbs on an average day, I demand quite a lot from my airsoft guns; No MOSFETs, able to function after submerged in water or snow, to be able to shoot after emersed in sand, and dropped or collided with a tree. Even then I don't require steel BCGs or steel barrel, for no reason, particularly if it means that it causes something else to fail (gas endurance, hammer/trigger wear, etc)

 

So live with the limitations of the platforms, or ditch it. the WE L85 is even more problematic than the WE AK so thats not really an option. With a steel BCG those guns basically fail, as it destroys the spring guide and barrel trunions.

 

In saying all that I would like to see steel barrels as standard.

Demanding a steel outer barrel is not overdoing it I think. They don't really have any downsides to begin with.

 

What I find kind of weird is that RA Tech makes a steel outer barrel for most WE GBBRs, but not the PMC. Do you know why that is? Maybe eventually they'll make one.

 

I've seen a steel outer barrel out there for the WE SVD. It probably would not fit though, right? I think it is made by 'Dynamic Star' or something like that.

 

Anyway, if I could get an LCT front leaf, lower retainer, gas tube 'chamber,' and front sight block installed, along with the real AKM furniture I have been stockpiling recently, I would be pretty happy. I don't have the skills to do that though. Do you know personally of any users on here that might be willing to get in touch with me and possibly do some work?

 

I am trying not to sound sketchy, but I need help, and that is a plain and simple admittance of facts. I do not mind shipping the entire rifle to someone who knows what they are doing.

 

About 'demands,' I am basically a collector. I occasionally shoot my guns, but not all that much. However, since I tend to collect, I also put a lot of emphasis on the realism of the materials and workings of the gun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just stumbled across this post, and I have to drop this here:

 

In short GBB is an art of compromise, you probably won't be satisfied either way, even you ditch AK completely and get a WE L85, still, no.

 

 

 

While I typing this a new reply shows up, yep, pretty much what 3vi1-D4n said.

 

If you love AK and not living in Kalifornistan, go get a RS and rip the range, it could be cheaper.

I am aware of that...well, sort of.

 

However, my ultimate 'goal' is to get as closest to the limits as possible without making that many compromises. Unfortunately, this task is even harder since I really do not have the abilities to make most of this custom and heavily modified stuff work. I'm hoping to maybe 'rent a tech.' I'll pay good money!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I know friends who are "collectors"  they have the same mindset as you. 

 

One of them wants all authentic same manufacturer parts to his rifles, in collectable form.  He afraid to leave a scratch on his rifle whenever he takes it to a range, and only cleans his rifle with a vice and a perfectly straight cleaning rod, and he is horrified when I basically manhandles my weapons.

 

Look man, seriously no one will make barrels just for you.  If you are OCD enough you start up a firm to make them yourself.  I am sure there are many more people who would be interested.  Even with a lathe (albeit a small one), I can re-profile/shorten a barrel, but I can't make one from scratch.  Steel is a lot hard to work on than aluminium and takes more time, and tools as the tools will wear.

 

You have two options for parts:  A) Learn to make parts/fit parts for yourself.  or B) Get someone else to do it.

 

But if you really want someone to fit parts onto your rifle for you, why not try and make friends with a gun smith or a machine shop owner?  Tons of gunsmiths around in the US.  Similarly go to a field and make friends with airsoft techs.  While most airsoft techs just fit parts onto guns, some, with engineering knowhow, will be able to help you.

 

I have 2 motorbikes, and often I have technical issues, I can either send the bike to a motorcycle mechanic or I make friends with the motorcycle mechanic.  My friend doesn't want my business as he is busy and knows I can do most things myself I just need to find time to figure things out, but he is available should I get into trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About 'demands,' I am basically a collector. I occasionally shoot my guns, but not all that much. However, since I tend to collect, I also put a lot of emphasis on the realism of the materials and workings of the gun.

Buy yourself a WASR and call it a day.

 

Edit:

For steel WE AK barrels, only the AKS74U is steel. When people do conversions, they use the existing short steel barrel and mate it with the front bit of a sacrificial steel AEG barrel either by welding, epoxy or screwing it on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good suggestion with the WE AKS74UN barrel (I haven't paid any attention to the AKS74U barrel before, normally just work on the triggers and spring guide as they are the common problem areas). 

 

Though there is no need on a WE AK platform to have a steel barrel.  Perhaps on an RPK build.  Even the darn real RPK has rigidity issues when bipoded so steel doesn't really matter LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could the AKS74UN outer barrel actually be screwed onto any AEG outer barrels? If so, that would be something to look into. I guess a steel outer barrel is not that important. It is cool, after all, but far from important. Then again, a lot of those parts serve no purpose besides additional aesthetics.

 

Do any of you know people on here that have been known to take on tech work? I would like to contact some people who know what they are doing and might be willing to help me out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could the AKS74UN outer barrel actually be screwed onto any AEG outer barrels?

Not as it is since the threaded portion is on the front sight assembly. You'll need to have it threaded and the front half of the AEG barrel precision cut so the gas block and handguard line up. On my 105 build I'm simply modifying the front half of the barrel to mate with the AKS74U barrel as if it were the original front sight so as to be reversible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not as it is since the threaded portion is on the front sight assembly. You'll need to have it threaded and the front half of the AEG barrel precision cut so the gas block and handguard line up. On my 105 build I'm simply modifying the front half of the barrel to mate with the AKS74U barrel as if it were the original front sight so as to be reversible.

What about real AKM parts? I haven't thought about them much before, but perhaps they have more similar dimensions to the WE pot metal parts than the LCT ones?

 

I measured the inner diameter of the banged up WE front sight block spare I have, and it was around ~14-14.20mm ID.

 

Now, doing some research, it seems that most Soviet-spec AKMs have front sight blocks with an ID of 14.5mm.

 

I actually think it might be something I could install myself, considering the dimensions do not seem entirely different. Maybe...I'm not sure. I would still love for someone to do the work for me and take a decent wad of cash for their trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
measured the inner diameter of the banged up WE front sight block spare I have, and it was around ~14-14.20mm ID. Now, doing some research, it seems that most Soviet-spec AKMs have front sight blocks with an ID of 14.5mm.
 

 

.3mm would still give it quite a bit of wiggle room. If you've got a mate with a Mig welder, get him to lay a load of weld in there, then drill/ream to the correct size. A local machine shop should be able to do that  if you've not got a mate that'll do it in exchange for some beer tokens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

.3mm would still give it quite a bit of wiggle room. If you've got a mate with a Mig welder, get him to lay a load of weld in there, then drill/ream to the correct size. A local machine shop should be able to do that if you've not got a mate that'll do it in exchange for some beer tokens.

Sadly I do not have any 'useful' friends. My friends are mostly rich, entitled brats. They cannot do *suitcase*. Maybe this explains my lack of technical ability? I cannot do a whole lot of this stuff on my own, and I would much rather take the easy way out and find someone to tech this *suitcase* for me (which actually is not very 'easy' as I've had no luck thus far finding anyone willing to um...paid slave labour).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

.3mm would still give it quite a bit of wiggle room. If you've got a mate with a Mig welder, get him to lay a load of weld in there, then drill/ream to the correct size. A local machine shop should be able to do that if you've not got a mate that'll do it in exchange for some beer tokens.

Sadly I do not have any 'useful' friends. My friends are mostly rich, entitled brats. They cannot do *suitcase*. Maybe this explains my lack of technical ability? I cannot do a whole lot of this stuff on my own, and I would much rather take the easy way out and find someone to tech this *suitcase* for me (which actually is not very 'easy' as I've had no luck thus far finding anyone willing to um...paid slave labour).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to note, someone is making a full travel bolt kit for the GHK AK's.

I cant remember who though.

Really? A kit? I've heard of some extremely complex modifications to get near full travel, but never a kit.

 

Can you try to dig up more information on this? A full travel GHK AKM would be incredible.

 

Edit:

 

It appears that W&S is making a kit, and release is imminent. Nice!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really thrilled by this

Yeah, I know. Seems awesome!!!

 

If it works well, I don't think the WE will have a reason to exist anymore either! So cool!! Made my day for sure (:

 

On a side note, what is the exact travel distance of an AKM/AK74 bolt carrier? I know for a fact it is over 100mm. I forget the exact amount though. Apparently this kit increases the GHK AK travel distance to 113mm or so, which is really nice indeed. I am absolutely stoked!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it works well, I don't think the WE will have a reason to exist anymore either!

For people who don't care for a superior hop up, more accurately weighted gun and mag, and cheaper overall, sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For people who don't care for a superior hop up, more accurately weighted gun and mag, and cheaper overall, sure.

I honestly couldn't give a *suitcase* about hop ups. Who cares? I don't. I do not skirmish.

 

About weight. I don't know. The WE is loaded with a bunch of pot metal junk, so that obviously helps with increasing weight a lot. WE mags also have a lot of problems. Not sure about GHK AK magazines. GHK M4 mags are great though.

 

I would definitely use one of the many steel outer barrels available for the GHK AK as well. That would increase weight. It would probably end up weighing similarly to a real AKM, or at least an AK74.

 

I can almost taste it. Full travel bolt (well, basically full travel) with the awesome GHK externals, and pretty much all steel construction. Not much could get better than that. It's surely something to wank over.

 

I said earlier the kit allegedly increases the bolt course to ~113mm. I stand corrected. It is 115mm. My WE AK PMC has around ~118mm of travel and a real AKM should have around 120mm (12cm) of travel. Not bad at all! For all intents and purposes it basically is full travel.

 

The original GHK AKs all have ~70mm of travel. What a joke...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and the use of session cookies.