Current Industry Trends

[RC-1138]

Long, very long, time and no see Arnies. I've been away from Airsoft for a good long while and have played very sparingly over the last... geze 10 years now but am trying to get back in full force, so I have a few questions:

 

1. Who are the big players insofar as manufacturers were concerned? For an azimuth check, when I stopped in ~08-09', TM's were still common although at least in the States, required a third party seller, Classic Army, G&P, and ICS were the main 'high end' AEG manufacturers, KWA was a rising star, and King Arms had mostly just made parts and magazines if I remember correctly. I know most of that has changed and I'm just curious what the playing field looks like now, as, going to most sellers online I recognize only about 1/4 of the manufactures (and of those, only half really mass produced guns when I stopped).

 

2. Did MPEG's get better? When I stopped they were all pretty much still terrible. AGM, UTG, and a few others existed but were pretty awful in quality.

 

3. Any leaps forward in tech? It seems V2 still rules the day for the most part and gas systems are more or less totally new, but still 'based' on the old system. Are all the old mags still working (from what I've seen Marui's M4's use a new mag type?)

 

4. I stopped right around Li-Poly's getting big so I'm good there, but are all guns safe for Li-Poly because, and I'm sure I'm to one degree or another wrong, but at least when I stopped, most guns were not considered 'safe' for Li-Poly's. Are they all now? What brands are/are not?

 

5. In specifics, I need to replace some of my old guns that got damaged in a flood; I want a classic M4A1, with regular heat sink grips, metal body, and a regular sight post/carry handle. I've looked around and sorta ties to my first question, is there a consensus, not on 'best' as that's nebulous, but 'good' and acceptable quality? Usefulness out of the box. Sturdy. Just a good all around game gun.

 

6. Any advice insofar as need-to-knows getting back in after 10 years?

 

I'm not quite a newbie, played for 10 years before the break, but I'm very much frozen in time circa 2008-2009. Any help would be much appreciated.

[renegadecow]

GBB is king now. All hail GBB master race.

[RC-1138]

How's their gas consumption/reliability/efficiency in cold weather? I live in a very, very cold place.

 

Still green gas? Or has CO2 supplanted everything?

[bladerunner168]

If you want GBB, GHK is your friend.

They probably have the best platform for gas and CO2.

 

AEG wise, the Tokyo Marui recoil platform is popular because of said simulated recoil and out of the box performance.

King Arms, G&P, ICS, Classic Army and VFC are all still about and still churn out your typical AEG.

New kid on the block is Krytac, not had any experience with them but their name seems to be gaining traction.

[NonEx]

I can tell it's been a while as I don't even know half of the stuff you are asking about because it's so old

 

Disregarding all of that I am onboard with what RenegadeCow said about GBBRs!

Once you go down that path you can't go back to the sewing machines that is AEGs.

[ED-SKaR]

1. that's a hard question to answer

 

2, Medium Power Electric Guns went away completely, and the manufacturers of those now make 'clones' and some of them have even ascended to be in the answer to Q1.

 

3. There are lots of new gadgets and gizmos, but if you have an old v2 m4, you can still compete. TM "Recoil" m4s have a different mag type from the older stuff. There are 'flash' mags with a string that winds the clockwork spring.

 

4. nobody is scared of lipos anymore, so long as you install a mosfet to protect the trigger switch then you're good to go, quite a few manufacturers are fitting mosfets from the factory now.

 

5. eeehhhh... M4s... yuck

 

6. Nothing you 'need' to know, the game's still played, get back to it!

[Corbeau]

The new AEG players are Krytac for yuppie-*albatross* M4s, and LCT and E&L for AKs. RealSword is gone, unfortunately, but the E&L and LCT externals are more or less on par with them quality-wise and use standard V3 gearboxes.

 

In the U.S. at least, GBBRs haven't taken over anything, but HPA sure as hell has. Polarstar and Wolverine make EXTREMELY popular kits that convert your AEG to high pressure air.

 

R-hop is the best accuracy upgrade. Flat hop is not as good, but easier to do.

 

King Arms and Ares make "high end" guns that are attractive but shoddy.

 

VFC, G&P, and G&G are still great options.

 

KWA AEGs are a pain in the *rickroll*, because they use barely-proprietary gearboxes. Some of their GBBs are good, others are garbage.

 

Glock threw a hissy fit, so now there are no more real airsoft Glocks unless you bend over backwards and sacrifice a virgin for them. Lookalikes are popping up here and there, such as the KWA ATP and Echo1 Timberwolf, which is the best looking one IMO as it's licensed by Timberwolf.

 

TM is trying to make electric tri-shots a thing. Here's hoping they succeed.

 

Other than that, not much I can think of. I was out of it myself from about 2011 to December of last year, and these are the main things that either weren't around or were just on the fringes.

[Mike_West]

1. Like people said, King Arms are in, Classic Army spread their range to compete with the Chinese, G&G and Ares go for exotics (along with KA), and WE are massive in the GBB area. That includes rifles too.
2. The Chinese upped their game considerably. JG is considered the go-to brand if you want to save money, but CA got smart and introduced their "Sportline" series that's slightly better for a similar price. A&K went for the heavy stuff: if you want a M60, a MG42 or a PKM (not a RPK, a PKM!), they will do the job for a sensible price. ARMY make pretty good 1911s. Cyma is actually good these days, mostly thanks to their AEP G18 and its copyright-free equivalent for the American Market, the CM-127. They also did something interesting by designing a M870 body for the TM tri-shot spring mechanism. Well's hit and miss - they clone weird things like the TM M870 gas shotgun and Wingun/GH Webley, and still make copies of Maruzen MP5K and the old KSC M11. Then there are premium HK outfits like APS and PPS who cloned the Tanaka M870.
3. Old M4 mags work. TM got weird with their recoil series, but everyone else quietly disregarded it. The Tavors run off V2 M4 mags, the SCARs run off V2 M4 mags, the weird fictional thingers like XR5 and APS UAR run off V2 M4 mags.
4. LiPos are all the rage, but the connector replacement brouhaha kinda puts me off. Also, they're safe in general, but a buddy of mine got a dodgy one and lost a finger.
5. JG actually makes something more than the railed range queens - I have their 2012 M733, and it's not bad, and other pre-sticklebrick models go as far back in history as A1 and even CAR15.

[Corbeau]

Hard to mention CYMA and not they godly VFC clone AKs

[RC-1138]

I can tell it's been a while as I don't even know half of the stuff you are asking about because it's so old

 

Disregarding all of that I am onboard with what RenegadeCow said about GBBRs!

Once you go down that path you can't go back to the sewing machines that is AEGs.

 

My collection, or what's left of it after the flood, would have been the envy of any 08' Airsofter: CA249 Para, Star M249 mK2, G&G M14, 3x M15A4's, 2x Star M4A1's, CA SLR105, TM P90, TM M1A1, TM PSG-1 (actually bought it off of someone from Arnies in like 05') M82 VFC, the old KSC USP 45 Full sized, a G22 that I guess I should be more angry about losing if Glocks are gone now, KWA PTP M9, um.... others I can't remember. All I have left now definitively is 2x TM P90's (indoor fields nearby made them very, very worthwhile for occasional games), one of the Star M4's, I think I hobbled together one CA M15A4 from surviving parts of the 3 dead ones, and that's it. Everything else I either know was destroyed in the flood (including a VFC HK417 that I seriously only put like 20 rounds through since the local field has an FPS restriction and at the time, couldn't be asked to open it up and drop a slower spring in it) or I am yet to test but I don't have high hopes.

 

So I'm yeah... kinda mostly focused on replacing the losses, hence why I really want to replace the M4A1's with the old fashioned, late 90's era looking ones, you know with the heat sink, non-RIS handguards, the LE stock, and normal sight post/carry handle. I am wary of KWA's for the reasons Corbeau said, I dealt with one already that required work and the box was a pain to deal with. From what I see, G&G still seems to make old fashioned ones, as does King Arms, although can't find one in stock anywhere (in the US), and most of my M4 mags survived and are functional, so I am loathed to get the TM (despite an oldschool TM lover, oh you can add an TM AUG to the old and destroyed list and yes, sadly an A1 with the scope), worth mentioning in a sidebar: to those old enough to remember, those MAG Midcaps? Still have them, been used to death, sat in storage for years and now survived a flood and still work. So if they're still around, yeah, consider them.

 

Does G&G still have the problems they used to? Like a big issue with the M14 was the magazines fed 2 maybe 3 rounds and then jammed up/failed to feed. Their M4's at the time had the same time. And what's King Arm's quality like? If say Marui, not their new stuff, their old stuff, is the 'standard,' do they exceed, equal, or fall below? Did ICS ever abandon their goofy 2 part gearbox and start just using V2/3's? I know this is tough to answer but I'm so far out of it trying to get a bearing on what's right is tough.

 

Also worth asking, simple though it may be; it seems KCS perfects don't exist anymore? Who sells the 'standard' setting BB now?

[Corbeau]

Elite Force BBs are decent, another thing, heavy round(.25+) are the norm now, not sure if that's new or not. You may want to give G&P M4s a look.

 

Here'a link to them on sale, I personally hate this retailer, but they have decent deals from time to time: http://www.evike.com/products/37369/

[Mike_West]

Hard to mention CYMA and not they godly VFC clone AKs

I'm not an AK fan, which is why I forgot that one. But you're right, people love the Cyma AKs.

 

Also, 1138, since you mention AUGs, those got cloned too. With a scope and all.

[RC-1138]

I'm not an AK fan, which is why I forgot that one. But you're right, people love the Cyma AKs.

 

Also, 1138, since you mention AUGs, those got cloned too. With a scope and all.

 

Hmmm. I was going to prioritize replacing the M4A1 but that may not be feasible. Are Marui AUG's and M1A1's truly discontinued, like some websites say, or just out of stock like many other say? I ask because it doesn't seem hard to believe that the stock of Marui's would wax and wain over time and in the same breath, I can't imagine that demand ever went away for their P90's, M1A1's, and other unique/original models.

 

I'm not empirically against clones, I mean, after all, I don't know anything about them, but something about, "The Devil you Know," comes to mind.

[Corbeau]

Hmmm. I was going to prioritize replacing the M4A1 but that may not be feasible. Are Marui AUG's and M1A1's truly discontinued, like some websites say, or just out of stock like many other say? I ask because it doesn't seem hard to believe that the stock of Marui's would wax and wain over time and in the same breath, I can't imagine that demand ever went away for their P90's, M1A1's, and other unique/original models.

 

I'm not empirically against clones, I mean, after all, I don't know anything about that, but something about, "The Devil you Know," comes to mind.

You'd be surprised at how hard P90s have fallen out of fashion

[Mike_West]

The AUG was redesigned into a high ROF configuration recently, with a fancy rail and short barrel, but I doubt that TM would remove it from domestic market.

 

Tapped out with Tapatalk.

[Horsem4n]

Something that has to be mentioned to look out for: HPA hybrid guns and how they enabled the rise of what's affectionately known as the Speedsofter.

 

The speed softer sounds just like what they are, people who like to be very aggressive with lone wolf tactics. Just like the difference between speedballers and scenario paintball players.

 

Their weapon of choice has a hybrid gas/electric system similar to ye olde asahi w2000, except better. An electronic solenoid gas valve actuating a poppet to fire BBs. Easy to buy from companies like Polar Star, Wolverine, and a few others. The advantages are extremely consistent performance, fits in compact systems, instant trigger response, low gas and battery consumption, recoiless (though systems that add recoil are starting to come out), and most importantly, on the fly adjustable FPS, ROF and fire modes.

 

These new systems are very useful (I own one) but are easy to abuse. Most fields don't allow people to use them without tournament locks to prevent the on the fly adjustments.

 

You can tell when a player has one because most people run them with external gas tanks. There are other options, but most people will have a gas line running from a back pack to their gun.

 

Keep an eye on these people. A lot if the time they play unfairly. It's a stigma, but most cheaters nowadays, at least in the states, use these platforms.

 

They are like driving porsches, little to no tuning issues, just a little maintenance, fast ootb.

[renegadecow]

TM still makes P90s under their High Cycle line as well as a shortened version of their AUG. There's also the option for a GBB P90 now.

https://youtu.be/V82Ahn8l2xg

 

As for the M1A1, WE's about to release theirs if you don't want to support clone AEGs.

[RC-1138]

Something that has to be mentioned to look out for: HPA hybrid guns and how they enabled the rise of what's affectionately known as the Speedsofter.

 

The speed softer sounds just like what they are, people who like to be very aggressive with lone wolf tactics. Just like the difference between speedballers and scenario paintball players.

 

Their weapon of choice has a hybrid gas/electric system similar to ye olde asahi w2000, except better. An electronic solenoid gas valve actuating a poppet to fire BBs. Easy to buy from companies like Polar Star, Wolverine, and a few others. The advantages are extremely consistent performance, fits in compact systems, instant trigger response, low gas and battery consumption, recoiless (though systems that add recoil are starting to come out), and most importantly, on the fly adjustable FPS, ROF and fire modes.

 

These new systems are very useful (I own one) but are easy to abuse. Most fields don't allow people to use them without tournament locks to prevent the on the fly adjustments.

 

You can tell when a player has one because most people run them with external gas tanks. There are other options, but most people will have a gas line running from a back pack to their gun.

 

Keep an eye on these people. A lot if the time they play unfairly. It's a stigma, but most cheaters nowadays, at least in the states, use these platforms.

 

They are like driving porsches, little to no tuning issues, just a little maintenance, fast ootb.

 

I've seen them at my local indoor field and yeah, no one trusts the guys that use them (as yes, even I have experienced shots that feel *way* over our field 350 fps limit, and not that I mind being shot that hard, I still wear full gear/equipment and remember ye-old-days of 550 fps VSR's being used to clear rooms (ah... good times), but it just leaves me jealous that I'm stuck with a stock Marui... well almost jealous.

 

They seem like a step backwards. I mean I remember WAY long ago, the old Classic Soft weapons, before the FAMAS V1, Shoei and the other classic airsoft brands made their weapons Gas operated with a tube out the grip leading to an external tank. 

 

 

TM still makes P90s under their High Cycle line as well as a shortened version of their AUG. There's also the option for a GBB P90 now.

https://youtu.be/V82Ahn8l2xg

 

As for the M1A1, WE's about to release theirs if you don't want to support clone AEGs.

 

God the Age of the GBB Rifle is in... I guess I ought to research them more stringently. I'm just wary of using them in my local climate. I'm a Chemical Engineer now and gas laws are kinda my thing lol.

[ardrummer292]

Gas blowback rifles and HPA systems may be "in" at some fields, but not all. They're fairly uncommon at my local site, and that's nothing to do with attendance. GBBRs are notoriously unreliable and HPA weapons are considered the weapon of choice for cheaters. Give whatever evidence you like; I've seen what I've seen.

 

I recently (circa 2014) started using Krytacs exclusively as a base for my rifle builds. Their performance is acceptable, but that isn't their selling point for me. The Krytac gearbox is dead easy to work on, even for a sausage-fingered neanderthal like myself. The quick change spring and captive antireversal latch makes all the difference, while the built-in MOSFET is a lovely addition. The downside is that Krytacs only come in one external configuration: 3-gun tacticool. Thankfully, they're easy to convert into something more old school.

[Corbeau]

The thing about HPA is that they definitely are the Speedsofter/Cheater(is there a difference?)'s choice, the thing is, they're legitimately the best option, and it's really easy to tell the difference an average player's HPA gun and a cheater's: the cheater's gun shoots 45 RPS.

 

GBBRs still feel good in the hands but perform like *albatross*.

[renegadecow]

I'm just wary of using them in my local climate.

How cold exactly are we talking about? Down to 10C and you've still got a few good gas options. Lower than that and you're pretty much limited to CO2 or guns that can be converted to CO2 via Devil Hunter mod.

Don't get me wrong though, shot per shot AEGs are still way more consistent and reliable as you'll have to keep cleaning and possibly replacing parts on an annual basis for some GBB models. I'm just shoving it down your throat because it's a totally different experience which has been drastically refined since you were last in the know. I just keep telling people this: if you're out to play to have fun, use the most enjoyable gun there is. If you're playing competitively or just want to rake in a kill count, stick to AEGs or go HPA.

[3vi1-D4n]

Will just add this to renegadecows statement:

 

If you're playing competitively or just want to rake in a kill count 

- AEGs or HPA. 

 

If you want to emulate the experience of combat in a team oriented, objective focused environment

- GBBR or AEG w/realcap magazines

- AEG MG w/box mag for firesupport

 

if you're out to play to have fun, use the most enjoyable gun there is. 

 

if you're out to play to have fun, use the most enjoyable gun there is. 

 

[CZFan]

Speedsoft is the bane of this game. That's why I never play.. Its stupid. Collecting and tinkering is where its at

 

let the 10 year olds run around while mom is getting her nails done. seems to be the direction the game is heading. and don't get me started on "adult" days where adult = 12+

 

I cry inside

[Tarr]

You mention your collection got destroyed by a flood, can you define what destroyed is? Did they just get wet and dirty or actually got physically smashed? Do you have them still? You can most probably salvage most of your collection with some tech work if they just dont work because they got soaked in **** water for a while.

If you get some pics up im sure some of us would be able to help out to see what is salvagable.

[heroshark]

I tried gbb for a while and went on to TM recoil for reliability. It's not as nice as gbb by any stretch. The most meh bit imo is no feedback from returning the bolt. But they are reliable and have all the function of a gbbr, well the AR layout rifles anyway. 

 

This looks like it could be interesting if it works reliably,