Most Dangerous BB Type

[mrsevenstars]

How long can the shells hold air as i cant imagine storing them full charged long term in an at the ready self defense situation, and gasing and loading once someone is in, id think is one too many steps. In a guns outlawed country might be better to just have an iron pan pubg style than an airsoft gun.

[scorch]

Jesus wept. Airsoft for self defence? You daft sod.

 

 

What's wrong with the good old fashioned bat?

[renegadecow]

[3vi1-D4n]

I had one of these:

 

The power was so high it had a reputation of knocking people out using .68 rubber (12J or something silly I can't believe its sold as a toy).  If only they sorted the constantly leaking internals, or HPA, that would be fantastic.   Some police force in South East Asia use these for Riot control.

[mrsevenstars]

So its a high powered paintball gun with rubber balls? Thats gotta hurt.

[renegadecow]

APS shotguns go up to 20J+ when hot rodded with HPA. But reliability is the main issue here. The shells can leak in time. Using it for riot control where you can load it up and head to the area is one thing. Loading it and having it sit on a shelf for who knows when, depending on it to save your life is another.

[3vi1-D4n]

One of many reasons I no longer own a WE P90, gas leaks via the nipple while magazines is inserted into gun throughout the day, can't be sure if pulling the trigger whether it will fire. 

[renegadecow]

Only if something's wrong with it like the connector being misaligned or a nicked o-ring. Could have been an easy fix, but then keeping it for long (as I have) leads to a long road of fixes.

[3vi1-D4n]

Nipple paint has unevenly come off, O-ring seems to be intact, thats probably enough to cause a leak.  In any case its sold.  Was a fun gun, but I can see it being a pain in the long run even with the preventative stuff I did to it (lightened recoil spring, magazine sealing mods, increased recoil/power mods (500fps on 0.2g LOL), improved spring guide alignment mods, improved balance mods).

[The Disavowed]

Well I thought I had got the jist of it, but then I saw something else that got me thinking again. What about aluminium or lead?

 

I guess that an aluminium bb weighing around 0.3g would travel fast but also be pretty solid?

 

Then I wondered about lead, as lead is used for air rifles for hunting etc. but is soft and squishy. Bullets are also made from lead. So would a lead bb be any good??

[renegadecow]

Be any good for what?

[Guges Mk3]

Lead is in that small of an amount is not feasible.

[The Disavowed]

Sorry, any good to cause damage to things. It is not about practicality, more about feasibility, this is only theoretical as the query popped into my head. I mean they use lead in a .177, .22 or .25 air gun, and I know fps is higher, but you can kill a rabbit or bird with those, so they must be good for causing damage?? I wondered if that is because the lead would expand on impact?

[Guges Mk3]

If you have an opportunity to take Physics and Ballistics, please do.  It will give you a better concept on why lead is used as a projectile in small calibre air guns versus other materials.

 

Lead in itself is not specialized to expand on impact.  Due to its nature of being soft as a metal, it will deform.  But, expansion is by design.  Anything will deform on impact, granted with enough energy behind it in most "human" conditions.  

 

As for why lead is used as a projectile, it is due to several factors.  But the main factor is:

 

Law of Inertia 

 

Lead is better than say wood as a source of bullets.  Know this physical law and you will have the foundation for ballistics and why lead is favored.

[tquilha]

I think the most dangerous BBs around are those yellow 0.12g ones.

Dangerous to your gun, that is...

[The Disavowed]

Yeah, but they are brilliant in a moscart!!

[3vi1-D4n]

Lead is used because of weight and availability.  If you want to throw a rock (which is what a bullet is), you want to throw a heavy one.

 

You can throw steel, but that would wear out barrels (steel on steel is bad), so you want to throw steel wrapped in a copper jacket.

 

 

But in terms of self defense, the basic idea of self defense is to make the would-be-assaulters less likely to initiate or to sustain an assault, by creating doubt in their minds how much threat you really are.  Even with some form of training in combat arts, there is a limit to actual effectiveness, when going against multiple assailants.   

 

However, with combat arts, a skilled practitioner can increase his odds, as high as 40:1, while with firearms its at max 3:1. 

 

Of course there are other ways you can promote self defense, by bluffing.  In combat arts, its looking like you know what you are doing (poses and noises, breaking boards etc), while with firearms it is either noise (using blank firing replicas), or a bigger gun.  But the issue is, as soon as you use the bluff it becomes ineffective in the actual fight.

 

So lead shots on an airsoft or even .177 is silly because what does it achieve?  Sure, .177 going fast enough have been able to penetrate stab vests but its more a silent killer, a last resort for personal protection rather than self-defense.  In an airsoft gun, lead/steel rounds doesn't deliver enough energy to kill or injure anyone, or enough noise to scare anyone away.  

 

20 years ago, I converted a Daisy 2003 into a .177 blowback machine pistol when I was younger, firing 35 rounds of .177 at a blistering 2500rpm at 400fps.  Penetrates skin yes, but sounds like a balloon being released, and even for a .177 the accuracy is pretty much gone after the first round.  No one was really afraid of it.  Personal protection vs self defense.

[icolater]

This might sound mad but, a can of pepper spray, a gum shield and a decent knuckle duster and I'd take out at least 3 would be robbers etc. Provided I'm sober of course.

[ninja master of coffee]

I'm really not sure how any of this relates to airsoft anymore. I'm reasonably sure discussion of terminal ballistics is against forum rules, no? Also, this mostly seems to be degenerating into "with my elite ninja skills, taught to me by Chuck Norris himself, I could neutralise at least 10 opponents in less than a minute" type stuff. Face/palm.

[The Disavowed]

Yes, as a means of self defence even a crossbow is more effective. I don't want to know for self defence purposes, I was merely saw different types of bb and thought "hmmm, why this or that, what would hurt most or do the most damage, in theory". You could even think along the lines of what bursts cans the best? By most dangerous I don't mean in terms of killing someone with a bb, but couldn't think of another way to describe what I was wondering.

 

My grasp on the theory behind it is pretty basic, so I simply asked to get a more knowledgeable answer. I do chuckle at the thought of getting a bigger gun, that is kind of my mindset of thinking!

 

I also remember those daisy guns, they were pretty fun converted to full auto!!

[3vi1-D4n]

I'm really not sure how any of this relates to airsoft anymore. I'm reasonably sure discussion of terminal ballistics is against forum rules, no? Also, this mostly seems to be degenerating into "with my elite ninja skills, taught to me by Chuck Norris himself, I could neutralise at least 10 opponents in less than a minute" type stuff. Face/palm.

 

I shall make it degenerate into Chuck Norris territory:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrHmcpRAZNs&t=153s

 

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Seriously though, airsoft guns are a toy, not a self defense tool.  And as "airsoft" is a game, played for enjoyment, and by collective effort the appropriate game plan/structure should be fair enough to be the only factor to determine degrees of enjoyment.  An individual should not be allowed to purposefully remove enjoyment from others, by being able to cause harm/abuse to others.  This includes players and game designers/planners/organisers.

 

Using BBs that can harm someone would not be nice, but "harm" is a subjective word here.  Glass BBs can leave glass splinters that can stay in the body.  While steel/alu BBs would penetrate mesh if shot at a high enough FPS, though skin contact would be quite mellow (but as I said, it carries more energy at range than lighter BBs and that could be considered harmful by many modern *snowflakes* airsoft players).

 

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Here is an example of what I am trying to say, in a very high FPS environment, and the perception of harm and enjoyment:

 

Years ago, I used to play with a close knit group of players who played 8-10hr scenario games,  with no FPS/MED limits (this was before HPA setups existed).  The only restriction is that we only allow real/low capacity mags (under 20-50 rounds) on all arms and rifles except MGs which have drum mags.   Games had a debriefing session by all units involved at the end and was both structured and unstructured.

 

MGs were limited to 1 to every 4 rifle, and were shared in a pool.  Sharing of primaries were encouraged, if your team mate had a rifle and yours malfunctioned or cannot achieve the effect, you are encouraged to swap.  Likewise dead team mates weapons can be taken in a fight, and given back when they respawn.

 

If you are hit you lie down and call hit, not stand up.  The only respawn was duct tape bandages, securely around the torso.  Dead people cannot walk/talk, and can only be dragged by live players to a medic.  Dead players cannot be used as shields.

 

Hits were felt, and many times through the foliage, and added to the suppressive effect.  When we got hit, and it was painful at times, but no one saw that as harm, and no one asked what FPS each rifle was at.  

 

Why?  If you got hit, it was for good reason.

 

You were only likely to be hit once/twice since you dropped to the ground immediately (plus real caps) and since you cannot respawn without teammates, players will not take unnecessary risks, like trying to individually bang kill one member of an advancing team and getting opened up by an entire squad, then complaining about MEDs.

 

And since the rifles were shared everyone knew an individual should not make their rifles too powerful just to gain any individual advantage, because it will cause unintentional harm if your team mates pick it up to use on others.  Since you cannot use human meat shields, you are discouraged not to intentionally put your mates in harms way to save your own a$s.  

 

Over time the weapons were as high as it needed to be, high enough to penetrate bush and hit moving targets, and depending on the specific purpose of the weapon systems, they were all effective to deliver the intended effect.  Therefore FPS distribution naturally occurred by weapon class, rather than enforced by limits.  For example was no point carrying an SMG that was too high FPS as it would not be accurate enough to be used at range, nor have enough battery juice to last a day, and can't be used up close.

 

Weapon accessorisation also decreased.  Weapons didn't have slings as it is difficult to remove weapons off dead players, and weapons didn't have battery boxes or duct-taped batteries as they would get in the way during a weapon retrieval.  There was no real point in carrying an HPA rig (some players brought them to the games), but realised since you swap rifles and MGs, not everyone would be able to operate the weapon system that you have customised for ones own advantage and can't share it with others.

 

It was an equal playing field.  The game and collective enjoyment mattered more than the weapon customisation and individual enjoyment.

 

However, even carrying glass BBs or metal BBs were a no no.  Metal BBs at higher than 480fps goes through nylon sheets at short ranges.  It was a collective agreement not to use BBs that offer no extra range or effect, but causes un/intentional harm.

 

This system worked well, as games were purposeful and intentional, and was the only group that never had a single complaint of high FPS or intentional harm by its members.  Only time of complaint was from new members who are used to playing by low FPS rules, but more so they complain that the gameplay wasn't fun because it didn't allow the freedom to do what they want in games.  

[The Disavowed]

Also, just to reiterate that when I play I tend to stick with .3g bb as I tend to use gbbr mainly, occasionally aeg and then I tend to swap down to .2g bb for that. I use completely different loaders for each so no chance of muddling up my weights, not that it would make much difference in real terms, I just find .3g better for gbb.

[icolater]

I'm really not sure how any of this relates to airsoft anymore. I'm reasonably sure discussion of terminal ballistics is against forum rules, no? Also, this mostly seems to be degenerating into "with my elite ninja skills, taught to me by Chuck Norris himself, I could neutralise at least 10 opponents in less than a minute" type stuff. Face/palm.

Ha ha!! Who mentioned Chuck Norris???

[ninja master of coffee]

I was exaggerating for comic effect, like.