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AI Mike40

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I'll say the same like I said on that video.

Use it on me and I'll punch you, I promise.

 

No longer sporting that, it's assault.

 

There IS a thing called overkill. and the WILL be douchebags.

 

Madbull's XM781HP 40mms do 250fps with 0.45g 8mm BBs. Again, I have seen the thing crack bulletproof glass. I have a clutch of Chinese-made 40mms that hold around 150 BBs each, and have measured them at around 300fps on CO2 with .2s, experiencing significant power creep with heavier BBs. Both of these are cheaper than this Mike40, have been around for years, and are readily available worldwide. Unless you're starting fights on the regular, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that overpowered 40mm MED-riding overkill douchebaggery hasn't been a problem before, so why do you expect that to change now?

 

Has anyone here used Cyclone grenades? Those are the same engine, same BB capacity, same muzzle energy, same everything, the only difference being that they spin and shoot BBs everywhere rather than just emitting them in a stream. Well, I've had them go off literally at my feet, spraying all their contents into my lower body, and usually I realize it's gone off because of the noise, not because my gonads have been shredded by the blazing fury of 140 BBs. Those shoot the same velocity as this and are purpose-designed to do so at point-blank range, and I've never heard complaints about their power.

 

I don't consider myself particularly tough, but I think a lot of airsofters haven't had enough experience with low-muzzle-energy devices and builds to realize just how inoffensive half a joule of muzzle energy really is, even in high quantities, and especially at distance. Having been on both ends of a 240fps strafer, I would much rather get sprayed at point-blank by something that performs like that than get blasted by a CO2 40mm grenade. It is no contest whatsoever.

 

The advertised product is weak (despite their hamming it up for the video), and the kind of person who's going to exploit this has already had cheaper and more painful options at their disposal for literally decades. I don't get the reaction at all.

Edited by CatgutViolin
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This is stupid and dangerous. Can't believe Airsoft Innovations seriously came out with such a ridiculous product. 

Most CQB fields are semi only for a reason. This thing shoots 150bbs in 1/3 of a second. So it's literally 150 times more painful and 150 times more dangerous than any CQB gun. 

No fun in overshooting people. Whatever the FPS. Seriously. AI should return any preorders and apologise for even suggesting this thing.

Edited by Dimitri MdP
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People keep drawing comparisons to Polarstars and the old school moscarts, which I don't feel are fair.

 

Polarstar HPA engines as far as I can tell weren't designed specifically to dump a huge volume of bbs at once into one spot, there is certainly the capability of doing that more easily than a very high rof AEG but that is a user choice.

 

Classic moscarts and their millions of offspring spread the BBs out far more once you get even a short distance from them, yes they may put out a higher power output per round but those that hit you are going to be much more spread out and in my experience much less stingy/painfull than a lot of rounds impacting a small area at the same time.

 

I think the real issue is the way it's being advertised, the AI website says "Most Joules per Trigger Pull, Fires 150 BBs in 1/3 of a second and hits with so much energy that we guarantee they'll call their hits!", that's basically straight up advertising it as an overkill tool and the whole most joules per trigger pull probably isn't a wise way to go around advertising when some countries have strict energy limits on airsoft guns, granted they're per round fired but that phrase would raise some eyebrows with non-airsoft people I'm sure.

 

I'm no fan of banning stuff for the fun of it but if I was running a site I'd be considering preemptively banning these on the basis that they're being advertised as a way to break one of the key rules of airsoft skirmishing (imo) which is to not act like a *rickroll* and overkill on purpose.

 

Just my £0.02

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What I don't understand is that people don't realize you can already do this with their Cyclone and with a wider spread. Uses the same engine, roughly the same specs, just detonate in your hand instead of tossing it.

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Madbull's XM781HP 40mms do 250fps with 0.45g 8mm BBs. Again, I have seen the thing crack bulletproof glass. I have a clutch of Chinese-made 40mms that hold around 150 BBs each, and have measured them at around 300fps on CO2 with .2s, experiencing significant power creep with heavier BBs. Both of these are cheaper than this Mike40, have been around for years, and are readily available worldwide. Unless you're starting fights on the regular, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that overpowered 40mm MED-riding overkill douchebaggery hasn't been a problem before, so why do you expect that to change now?

 

** It's the blatantly douchebad advertising that does it. Chinese airsoft company's have always a been a tad crazy. Like 400FPS+ gas and AEG rifles. Perhaps it's different now, but it used to be " buy chinese, order downgrade to 100mps. Fair, ok, I don't know the culture/mentality/mindset there. But downgrade is what you'll do.

Am I wrong in expecting differently from a Canadian company with a good name and standing? They like to attract the kind of people you DON'T want in your game. THAT is my beef.

Fek it, Belgium does not have a legal upper FPS limit, the sites and AAB ( Airsoft Alliance Belgium, a non government related organisation taking airsoft in Belgium under it's wings ) simply stated 350 +10 FPS full auto is good enough for everyone.

No government told us we can't do 500+ FPS full auto 50RPS. We used common sense and said 350 is enough.

 

 

Has anyone here used Cyclone grenades? Those are the same engine, same BB capacity, same muzzle energy, same everything, the only difference being that they spin and shoot BBs everywhere rather than just emitting them in a stream. Well, I've had them go off literally at my feet, spraying all their contents into my lower body, and usually I realize it's gone off because of the noise, not because my gonads have been shredded by the blazing fury of 140 BBs. Those shoot the same velocity as this and are purpose-designed to do so at point-blank range, and I've never heard complaints about their power.

 

** Cyclone grenades do just that: Cycle. They bounce around when thrown. BBs don't land at the same spot. 

As a general rule, they're omnidirectional and when lobbing, you can't aim them.

 

I don't consider myself particularly tough, but I think a lot of airsofters haven't had enough experience with low-muzzle-energy devices and builds to realize just how inoffensive half a joule of muzzle energy really is, even in high quantities, and especially at distance. Having been on both ends of a 240fps strafer, I would much rather get sprayed at point-blank by something that performs like that than get blasted by a CO2 40mm grenade. It is no contest whatsoever.

 

** Perhaps not. But I'd neither like to be blackmailed, raped or murdered. Not the same crime  category, but all 3 are simply wrong.

I've never come across CO2 40 mils. Hearing from you guys, I don't want too. Ever. 

A BB's purpose if to tag you out, reliably if possible. Not to hurt. It sting a little, fine, but that's not it purpose. You hurt me on purpose, I'll hurt you on purpose.

Sure, We'll have a talk and I'll ask you if you're aware of the harm. If you are and don't feel like apologising, I'll punch you. Preferably in the nuts. I could even feel naughty and grab your business down there and give it a quick 'twist and pull' action for good measure.

THAT is how I feel about using uncalled for force in this fine fragile hobby.

 

 

The advertised product is weak (despite their hamming it up for the video), and the kind of person who's going to exploit this has already had cheaper and more painful options at their disposal for literally decades. I don't get the reaction at all.

 

** Check the 'blatantly douchebag line.

 

 

People keep drawing comparisons to Polarstars and the old school moscarts, which I don't feel are fair.

 

** Well, High RPS stream of BBs, like a P*. That's it, really. But yup, P*'s can do that at even worse FPS.

 

Polarstar HPA engines as far as I can tell weren't designed specifically to dump a huge volume of bbs at once into one spot, there is certainly the capability of doing that more easily than a very high rof AEG but that is a user choice.

 

** Indeed. I've nothing against using HPA as a power source, It's the abuse I can't stand. HPA unfortunately made abuse quite easily available for the masses. Unfortunately because HPA is quite the thing when used right.

 

Classic moscarts and their millions of offspring spread the BBs out far more once you get even a short distance from them, yes they may put out a higher power output per round but those that hit you are going to be much more spread out and in my experience much less stingy/painful than a lot of rounds impacting a small area at the same time.

 

I think the real issue is the way it's being advertised, the AI website says "Most Joules per Trigger Pull, Fires 150 BBs in 1/3 of a second and hits with so much energy that we guarantee they'll call their hits!", that's basically straight up advertising it as an overkill tool and the whole most joules per trigger pull probably isn't a wise way to go around advertising when some countries have strict energy limits on airsoft guns, granted they're per round fired but that phrase would raise some eyebrows with non-airsoft people I'm sure.

 

** Precisely, thank you. Our hobby is very fragile in the view of Public Opinion.

 

I'm no fan of banning stuff for the fun of it but if I was running a site I'd be considering preemptively banning these on the basis that they're being advertised as a way to break one of the key rules of airsoft skirmishing (imo) which is to not act like a *rickroll* and overkill on purpose.

 

Just my £0.02

 

Only last week several of the bigger organisations and sites in Belgium have announced they will limit RPS to 20. That makes this product automatically banned.

Just a thought. They'd not have done that for fun.

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I would much sooner take one of these at point blank than one of the old Madbull 8mm CO2 grenades. I've seen one of those crack a Humvee's windshield. Shower grenades with absurd power levels have been around for a long time, but I've never seen them generate this kind of hysteria.

 

 Yeah a glass monkey model humvee. Take your fear mongering elsewhere.

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 Yeah a glass monkey model humvee. Take your fear mongering elsewhere.

 

I dunno if you just misread or what but I'm not fearmongering about this Mike40, quite the opposite. 

 

If you're skeptical about my anecdote regarding the Madbull's power, well, we're not the only ones to have cracked Humvee glass, but feel free to call up the Army National Guard office in Buffalo, NY and ask why they don't allow opfor volunteers to employ 40mms at RSP events anymore. Would have been around 2010, if you have to jog anyone's memory. Ruvon's a member here and also knows the shooter IRL, so you can ask him too if you like.

 

Those CO2 grenades are some nasty stuff, but expecting basic sportsmanship and ejecting players who don't demonstrate it has proven sufficient to curb abuse.

Edited by CatgutViolin

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I feel like these have legitimate use as grenade luanchers over a long range, not unlike the weird TM HK M320, but significantly more effective due to BB count, and because unlike normal moscart it will keep a tight group even out to distance, so if you do angle it over obstacles or into windows, it could work as a 40mm grenade analogue, but as a direct fire BB spitter in CQB... just no. 

Edited by blobface

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To be honest, I can't see the "good" in this product

 

This is pretty much exactly where I am, too. I'm not irrationally afraid of it, I accept that there are plenty of other airsoft guns that can be similarly misused, I don't expect there to be a plague of people misusing them - I just don't see the benefit. Can you lace someone up with a full midcap (150rds) using a regular airsoft gun? Yes, absolutely. You can't do in a third of a second (a cyclic rate of 450RPS) using a regular airsoft gun but you don't need to be shooting 450RPS to massively overkill someone.

 

My point is that with a regular airsoft gun you can also play airsoft... normally. This thing doesn't do normal - it is a one-trick pony where the trick has a minimum 50:50 chance of severely pissing off whoever you use it on. I don't think it's going to bring about the apocalypse, but I can't see any good reason for it to exist, either. All that we're waiting for is for Evike to get their own BATFE letter and start having BFGs imported, and the BB-grenade is going to be as dead in North America as it is in the UK.

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It's always nice to see genuinely new products come to the market, but I'm not entirely convinced. It'd be nice to see it tested at range, and see what the spread is like (seems a bit narrow from first impressions, though picture related). 

40-mike-section-2-item-1-image.png?17936

The sales pitch is intentionally obnoxious, because let's be honest, that's how you get kids to buy stuff.

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I agree, the game always involve some risk, it's part of the fun, but if I can save myself and the rest of the guys a crazy burst like that... well, I would do so, because some people are D***s because they are and they can, being a D*** with a DSG, P*... is possible and easy, they just to pay more, a lot of more than with this "grenade", this just hands the possibility to unleash their D***ery to many more people.

 

I can't speak for English/American/foreign players, but to be honest, Spanish fields are full of CoD gameplay loving D***s, and with honorable exceptions, managers only care for money and will only give a slap in the hand to ofending players (if they ever do). My point is just that I wouldn't like to see those in the fields I regularly play, much less seing them becoming a trend

I'm also currently located in Spain but play club games rather than paid for games for the most part. There's a big debate about banning these currently, I want to see what these are like before banning them. My suggestions for using them have been limit the number carried to two or three to avoid a rich player becoming a walking wall of death, and have a MED to avoid overkill shots. As someone else pointed out, high volume 240 FPS shots aren't really painful in my experience though I doubt taking a face full of this would be fun. Edited by ninja master of coffee

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these are more useful outdoors than in... im genuinely shocked at the reaction to these from people who play a game where we shoot + throw fireworks at each other, sites pre-emptivly banning them is hysterical. im going to preorder one.

 

 

edit: getting a face full of this would not be fun! wear PPE!!!

 

also overkill is one thing but these being 'overpowered' to the point of affecting gameplay is the kind of stuff you might think after getting concussed, sorry.

Edited by Skarclaw

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Madbull's XM781HP 40mms do 250fps with 0.45g 8mm BBs. Again, I have seen the thing crack bulletproof glass. I have a clutch of Chinese-made 40mms that hold around 150 BBs each, and have measured them at around 300fps on CO2 with .2s, experiencing significant power creep with heavier BBs.

 

I wasn’t aware that 40mm grenades can demonstrate joule creep. Is this a common thing, or is it limited to CO2 shower shells?

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It's expanding gas so yeah, I guess joule creep with heavier BBs makes sense. I suspect these will make far less difference to games than people imagine. As others have said, because the FPS is low, they won't really hurt, even with 150 rounds in .3 of a second because that isn't how pain works. Mass of a single projectile vs its velocity is the important factor, lots of slow moving, light projectiles aren't going to be as painful as single projectile at the same total weight doing the same velocity, or a lower number of light projectiles moving much faster. Think of it this way, what would be worse, having a single 1KG bowling ball thrown at you at 30 miles an hour, or 1KG worth of ping ping balls going at 30 miles an hour?

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these are more useful outdoors than in... im genuinely shocked at the reaction to these from people who play a game where we shoot + throw fireworks at each other, sites pre-emptivly banning them is hysterical. im going to preorder one.

Mate it’s not a question ‘manning up’ as your comment in not so many words suggest , as several have said it may be low powered but when you’ve got THAT many rounds hitting that quickly on one spot its going to hurt like f**k and I’m prity sure it WILL do some damage if it hits the wrong spot . I know most would hopefully use a bit of common sense with it and you’ll always get the d**khead who’ll use badly (like eny other piece of kit) and he shoots a kid ? I know I’d lamp them if they did it to one of my boys who play , but even worse scenario what if said d**khead takes his kid with him and the kid does it because dad does and who ever he or she shoots proceeds to lamp him ?

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I wasn’t aware that 40mm grenades can demonstrate joule creep. Is this a common thing, or is it limited to CO2 shower shells?

 

I've found that pretty much any system that rapidly dumps liquid CO2 (liquid is the key, CO2 GBB mags don't do this since they siphon gaseous CO2) experiences power creep, be it 40mms, Goblins, or APS shotgun shells. Since they're filled with liquid CO2, they're all effectively massively overvolumed and gain substantial power with heavier BBs. Systems that use liquid propane will also do it, but to a much more limited extent than with CO2.

Edited by CatgutViolin

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Maybe lets just wait for an independent test and review before we all start jumping to conclusions? Also, if someone's reaction to being overkilled by anyone is to punch them, they really shouldn't be at an airsoft game.

 

we all know getting shot 5 or 6 times makes anyone angry. Imagine getting shot with 150 in a freaking third of a second. Seriously.

 

150 rounds in a third of a second

This grenades are retarded. There's no way around it. Can't believe some still think it's a viable option. What's wrong with you guys? what's so enjoyable of overshooting people 20 times more than what would normally be considered overshooting, in half the time??? 

 

 

Even if this stays slightly above half a joule (considering it won't creep...which we don't really know yet), eye pro is rated for a single impact, not 150. This thing is literally 150 more dangerous than any gun out there. 

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Imagine

 

Some of us don't have to imagine. Some of us have experienced comparable equipment in use, and don't have to engage in armchair speculation.

 

 

 

What's wrong with you guys? what's so enjoyable of overshooting people 20 times more than what would normally be considered overshooting, in half the time??? 

 

Who here is talking about deliberately using it to overshoot?

 

Do you also ask why people what's enjoyable about slugging others with honest-to-god explosives (TAG rounds), permanently damaging their hearing (BFGs), exposing them to lung-destroying chemicals (literally any smoke grenade on the market), inflicting comparable amounts of overshooting in a different pattern (bog-standard moscarts), or simply making other players bleed (high-FPS guns within MED)? Nobody's denying the potential for abuse, but nobody here's advocating using it for deliberate overshooting either.

 

And frankly, citing safety concerns to single out this product seems downright disingenuous. P3 Strafers have a higher joules-per-second output than this, with much higher elastic deformation per-hit, and they've been extensively tested with Z87.1 eyewear with no apparent problems. A moscart at close range objectively causes greater deformation thanks to simultaneous impact. You're right, eyepro is rated for a single impact- that means you're following ANSI guidelines and discarding your lenses every time they suffer a single hit, right?

 

I don't have any particular interest in this product, but this is getting ridiculous. If your local community is so toxic and unpoliced by field staff that banning anything abusable is the only way to stop someone from being a grade-A *wheelbarrow*, then by all means ban it. If your field's semi-only then it probably shouldn't be allowed to begin with. The rest of us can use it responsibly, along with the myriad of other products (see above list) that represent a material hazard and potential source of abuse. Maybe when the public gets their hands on it people will see it for themselves that a stream of low-velocity BBs will not, in fact, rend their flesh, destroy their eyepro, burn their patch, foreclose on their house, and steal candy from orphans.

Edited by CatgutViolin
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Mate it’s not a question ‘manning up’ as your comment in not so many words suggest , as several have said it may be low powered but when you’ve got THAT many rounds hitting that quickly on one spot its going to hurt like f**k and I’m prity sure it WILL do some damage if it hits the wrong spot . I know most would hopefully use a bit of common sense with it and you’ll always get the d**khead who’ll use badly (like eny other piece of kit) and he shoots a kid ? I know I’d lamp them if they did it to one of my boys who play , but even worse scenario what if said d**khead takes his kid with him and the kid does it because dad does and who ever he or she shoots proceeds to lamp him ?

bit rich of you complaining about my hyper-machismo when you're talking about swinging fists. If you get upset by something in airsoft find a marshall or *fruitcage*off

 

edit and yea i might as well say it: people need to man up!!!

Edited by Skarclaw
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Some of us don't have to imagine. Some of us have experienced comparable equipment in use, and don't have to engage in armchair speculation.

 

Well, we have empirical evidence of how people react to this right at the beginning of their own damn video, don't we?

 

Who here is talking about deliberately using it to overshoot?

 

The rest of us can use it responsibly, along with the myriad of other products (see above list) that represent a material hazard and potential source of abus

Tell me how the *fruitcage* can you use this responsibly and not overshoot if the thing fires 150bbs in a damn third of a second. You realise just how fast that is? even if you wanted to, you can't help but hit someone 50 times

 

for *fruitcage* sake, their own video encourages you to overshoot people!

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Well, we have empirical evidence of how people react to this right at the beginning of their own damn video, don't we?

 

Tell me how the *fruitcage* can you use this responsibly and not overshoot if the thing fires 150bbs in a damn third of a second. You realise just how fast that is? even if you wanted to, you can't help but hit someone 50 times

 

for *fruitcage* sake, their own video encourages you to overshoot people!

 

Why are you ignoring Catgut's points about power levels? Why are you implying getting "overshot" with this is going to be equivalent to a normal RIF?

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