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TheFull9

TM Revised G17 - On the horizon?

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What do we reckon?  IIRC the slowly incoming/much anticipated G19 will have updated blowback parts á la the 226E2 and M9A1 along with  metal reinforcement in the slide notch for the slide lock lever and potentially an entire re-sizing of the slide to RS dimensions?  The G22 brought some updates to the service sized gun, but (even if it takes 3+ more years) I would definitely be happy to wait for a TM G17 with the above improvements.

All just conjecture chat ofc.

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Yes I would be very interested in a new updated marui g17. But if VFC can produce a glock on the same level as the fns I would prefer that TBH. 

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21 hours ago, CKinnerley said:

Right... was kinda after some predictions though, I think it's already a given that many people would want the gun.

I would say so, but they need to up the game a bit as the plastic they use these days is so weak and the pot metal has gotten even worse. 

The new m45a1 will explode on green gas after only a few mags.  

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Really?  Is that evidenced by a good sample size of people?  I've got a lot of bone stock TM pistols here, some are pushing a decade at this point with a fair few rounds and all on propane, no issues.  I'd be very disappointed if they've deliberately made all their materials that much weaker.

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It happened to mine! But I have a marui meu that is fine still after years. The plastic on the m45a1 is defo no as good. I think that's why they added an extra bit of pot metal around the slide release cut on the slide. It could also have something to do with the bigger nozzle adding extra blowback force, either way it's now dead only after a few days of ownership!

Have a we m45a1 from run in work shop ordered with markings and Cerakote, should of got that instead. 

On a side note it was a very very hot day when I should of used marui gas and not green gas. 

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So to answer my question - no.  1 incident doesn't prove anything and you were being sensationalist with no concrete proof.  They've added that metal in to the slide catch notch because in the past it was a case of the metal catch acting against bare plastic in the slide.  Do you have any actual solid evidence to suggest the plastic is of any lower quality?  The fact you ruined the gun on propane on an extremely hot day after they upped the volume of the nozzle is pretty much self explanatory.  But if you do have said evidence I'm genuinely open to hearing it.

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You probably right in all fairness, I'm just a bit annoyed it broke. One thing I will say though, it looks really nice. Crisp trades and all the correct frame cuts etc. I really shouldn't of used green gas but the few mags I got to shoot before it broke were amazing !! The new mag seems to work well on older models though which is good. So it's not a total loss. 

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/Offtopic

I really thought things were getting a bit toxic, here.
Kudos to you both: Chris for being strikt and to the point withouth calling names or worse, Icolater for taking taking it and realising what happened.

I tip.my hat you you,.kind sirs.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn H8324 met Tapatalk

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Back to the original topic. Honestly, I doubt we'll see an updated G17 any time soon.

Considering that TM are STILL selling their old fixed Hop-Up M92Fs multiple years after they released the new M9A1s I reckon we will be seeing the existing G17 for quite some time!

TM don't seem to have much interest in revamping older product lines. Afterall, along with the Beretta pistols, they're still selling things like their truly ancient FAMAS and the old design M16s/M4s with the crappy receiver tabs. 

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They've revamped a fair few things, I mean you can always ignore the 92Fs and just buy the 9A1, ignore the 226 and buy the E2.  They might still make the original models but that's no reflection on the huge popularity of the recoil line.  I don't disagree a new G17 would be a long time coming as I said in the OP; guess I'll buy this 19 whenever it comes out.  Don't like compacts but hey it'll work in my many 17 size holsters.

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I think the g22 was their updated full size glock (as TS stated) but if a new one does come out I think (hope) it will be a gen 5 glock. That would be something to get really excited about. But sadly, I recon the fact umerax has the rights now it's more unlikely. I know Japan has different laws regarding copyright infringements but if VFC produce a decent glock (like the hogworths g42) I'm sure they will saturate the Japanese market and make marui less likely to produce one. 

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The 22 has some updates, but it's not got everything the 19 is gonna have.  That's been my reading anyway, pretty sure the 19 will be a new system as it were and various internals won't be compatible.

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4 hours ago, RWJP said:

Honestly, I doubt we'll see an updated G17 any time soon. [...] TM don't seem to have much interest in revamping older product lines. Afterall, along with the Beretta pistols, they're still selling things like their truly ancient FAMAS and the old design M16s/M4s with the crappy receiver tabs. 

I couldn't agree more and it's one of my biggest annoyances with TM - probably second after their dogged refusal to improve their plastics to nylon-FRP. Not having metal slides is one thing - the Sword and Gun Law isn't a joke, especially for a big manufacturer - but using ABS in this day and age is frankly inexcusable. When any WE Glock you care to name will have a nylon-FRP frame it is utterly unacceptable for a $600 Recoil Shock to ship with ABS furniture.

That said, I've been told that one of the reasons these antiques are still in production is because at least some of them are very cheap in the JDM - much cheaper than an equivalent CYMA or something like that. They're competing against totally different models than they do overseas.

4 hours ago, RWJP said:

Considering that TM are STILL selling their old fixed Hop-Up M92Fs multiple years after they released the new M9A1s I reckon we will be seeing the existing G17 for quite some time!

I mean - the M92FS has been de facto replaced by the non-rail M9. They've also discontinued all but one of the five of the M92FS-based Samurai Edge special editions and the newest one is M9A1-based. I mean, it's still not all it could be (it doesn't have the 13.5mm BBU) but I think there's a definite trend towards discontinuing this older model.

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23 minutes ago, PureSilver said:

I couldn't agree more and it's one of my biggest annoyances with TM - probably second after their dogged refusal to improve their plastics to nylon-FRP. Not having metal slides is one thing - the Sword and Gun Law isn't a joke, especially for a big manufacturer - but using ABS in this day and age is frankly inexcusable. When any WE Glock you care to name will have a nylon-FRP frame it is utterly unacceptable for a $600 Recoil Shock to ship with ABS furniture.

That said, I've been told that one of the reasons these antiques are still in production is because at least some of them are very cheap in the JDM - much cheaper than an equivalent CYMA or something like that. They're competing against totally different models than they do overseas.

I mean - the M92FS has been de facto replaced by the non-rail M9. They've also discontinued all but one of the five of the M92FS-based Samurai Edge special editions and the newest one is M9A1-based. I mean, it's still not all it could be (it doesn't have the 13.5mm BBU) but I think there's a definite trend towards discontinuing this older model.

Great post! I don't think Tokyo marui care about the overseas market IMO, but they would defo sell more overseas if they upgraded their plastic to nylon fiber and the pot metal to decent aluminium. Is it a Japanese law that certant materials must be used? Because I don't remember any Japanese made airsoft pistol to use nylon fiber, even WA use ABS instead of decent plastic. 

Edit: forgot about the maruzen p99 that was nylon fiber of sorts. 

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15 hours ago, icolater said:

Is it a Japanese law that certant materials must be used? Because I don't remember any Japanese made airsoft pistol to use nylon fiber, even WA use ABS instead of decent plastic.

The Sword and Gun Law controls what materials you can use. The law is apparently vaguely written but seems to refer mostly to ferrous metals. The M14 and the Recoil Shocks are all metal, for example, so rifles operate under a different ruleset to pistols. Japanese manufacturers won't make pistols with metal slides or frames, but other companies selling pistols with slides and frames made of non-ferrous metals are quite common, albeit in a bit of a grey area. Apparently WEs (more pot metal than a Rastafarian Metallica cover band) are big sellers in Japan.

There's nothing stopping TM from using better plastics. I've been told they stick with ABS because its greater dimensional stability makes it easier to make injection moulds for, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for that. Again, every cloner under the sun (not to mention plenty of higher-end companies) make nylon-FRP work extremely well for them. TM can and should do better.

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A bit off topic, but what do you dudes recon the chances are, of umerax and VFC releaseing a gen 5 g17 this year with steel internals like the VFC g42 and fns 9 etc. That would be amazing IMO. After using the fns 9 for the last few weeks, I'm genuinely optimistic for future VFC produces, performance wise. A gen 5 glock that performs as well and is a durable as the cybergun fns 9, would be something to get really excited about. 

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Are they doing the 'official' licensed guns now?  Depends if the money's there for another brand new injection mould to do that new frame I suppose.  My Gen 3 and 4 VFC G17s are super pretty but utterly underwhelming to shoot to say the least, there's just 10x too much resistance in the slide travel for them to run well.  But if they do steel internals and the efficiency is there, sweet.  Not sure how long it took for there to be G4 airsoft replicas, but there's always gonna be that lag behind.  My guesstimate would be next year perhaps before we see anything.

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13 minutes ago, CKinnerley said:

Are they doing the 'official' licensed guns now?  Depends if the money's there for another brand new injection mould to do that new frame I suppose.  My Gen 3 and 4 VFC G17s are super pretty but utterly underwhelming to shoot to say the least, there's just 10x too much resistance in the slide travel for them to run well.  But if they do steel internals and the efficiency is there, sweet.  Not sure how long it took for there to be G4 airsoft replicas, but there's always gonna be that lag behind.  My guesstimate would be next year perhaps before we see anything.

Yea umerax own the glock rights now and have released the stark arms VFC g19, g17 gen3 and g17 gen4 along with the very decent g42, which has steel parts and actually performs better then the bigger models.(which wouldn't be hard). It's to small in my hands though, I find it very hard to shoot and the mags only hold small amount of gas so using them in a game would be silly. Nova even made a sai style slide for it. 

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On 6/11/2018 at 2:53 PM, PureSilver said:

Japanese manufacturers won't make pistols with metal slides or frames, but other companies selling pistols with slides and frames made of non-ferrous metals are quite common, albeit in a bit of a grey area. 

 

Japanese pistols with metal frame are very common, ever heard of the WA Infinity, they’ve been making em for about 30 years and then there the cheap TM rip of the Hi Capa.  What they can’t do is make full metal pistols.

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16 hours ago, BigAl said:

 

Japanese pistols with metal frame are very common, ever heard of the WA Infinity, they’ve been making em for about 30 years and then there the cheap TM rip of the Hi Capa.  What they can’t do is make full metal pistols.

Sorry I misunderstood your post! You didn't mean that WA where rip offs of marui hi capa. You'd said "and the rip offs" sorry my bad!!!

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20 hours ago, BigAl said:

Japanese pistols with metal frame are very common, ever heard of the WA Infinity, they’ve been making em for about 30 years and then there the cheap TM rip of the Hi Capa.  What they can’t do is make full metal pistols.

Actually I think 2011s are almost unique in having such large metal components, and strictly speaking it's just the chassis - virtually all GBBPs have internal metal chassis anyway. All the other WA/TM/KSC/Maruzen etc. etc. pistols have plastic frames; it's not like WA have a sideline in Berettas with metal frames and plastic slides, or HKs with metal slides and plastic frames. It is invariably plastic slides and plastic frames with metal chassis; it's just that 2011s happen to have their chassis on the outside.

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