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WE All new P-series GBB pistol

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I have worked on both the M17 and M18 2 months ago, straight from KY.

 

WE has replicated everything down to a tee, including the trigger response of the pistol.  It feels good in hand, materials are decent.  Blowback was really good.

 

However this is where my praise stops. 

 

Out of the box, The M17/M18 had a number of issues.  Critical issue on the M18 is that the slide would seize, vent gas and not return to battery and safety would disengage randomly.  Also, the slide would seize if you pull the trigger back too far.  On the M17, the slide did not seize but the hammer would have still impart far too much friction, and then it would run out of gas rather quickly

 

Both guns were the most inaccurate WE pistols I have ever fired.  Its accuracy was basically an A4 sheet at 5 metres. 

The M18 I actually managed to get working quite well.  Sorted the slide issue as well as the trigger pack safety issue (soft steel trigger pack plus dimensional problems to blame), and I added a barrel bushing to the slide so accuracy improved.  2 and a half mags for a magazine charge of propane.

 

On the M17, I could not get it working better than it could.  Even with the barrel bushing it still did not group.  Just clearing 1 mag per magazine charge of propane.

 

I would highly recommend not getting the WE P series until they have ironed out their issues.

 

Meanwhile I am sticking to my WE P228.  Has been my workhorse for many years.

Edited by 3vi1-D4n

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Moral of the story, get the VFC. 

 WE got a few things wrong IMO, the trigger is the wrong shape and you need to remove a screw to remove the inner frame, as well as it not working LOL. 

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English version of the video:

 

Seems like there will be a red dot mount plate sold seperately, but for a specific dot only? Seems good so far. The slide stop and the FCG is steel but not the inner frame. The gun looks great but I already saw paint chip on the outer barrel. Im curious about the CO2 performance.

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FYI: He said his gun is massively overhopped, even on minimum setting, it shoots way into the sky with 0.2g, with 0.3g bbs and minimum setting, at 20m, aiming for chest ends up hitting the neck of one of those targets. 

Edited by blobface

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On 8/2/2019 at 8:44 PM, blobface said:

FYI: He said his gun is massively overhopped, even on minimum setting, it shoots way into the sky with 0.2g, with 0.3g bbs and minimum setting, at 20m, aiming for chest ends up hitting the neck of one of those targets. 

That’s should be an easy fix

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On 7/27/2019 at 1:53 AM, icolater said:

Moral of the story, get the VFC. 

 WE got a few things wrong IMO, the trigger is the wrong shape and you need to remove a screw to remove the inner frame, as well as it not working LOL. 

The trigger is actually the right shape for the earlier P320 (thicker trigger vs the Gen 2 thinner M17 trigger).  As for the screw to remove the inner frame, that's not really an issue.  

 

I finally did get the cycling to work better, and the gun to group by creating:

- a barrel bushing on the slide

- a barrel bushing on the outer barrel for the inner barrel.

- hop rubber mod

 

Far too much work on one gun.  But after all this work, its actually pretty good, and I may not get rid of it.  Question is if WE will fix their production line...

 

While the VFC does look fantastic, the steel internals do concern me as the last time they did anything like that was on the VP9 which was a hard kicking, but fragile and a gas hog.

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On 9/5/2019 at 2:12 AM, 3vi1-D4n said:

The trigger is actually the right shape for the earlier P320 (thicker trigger vs the Gen 2 thinner M17 trigger).  As for the screw to remove the inner frame, that's not really an issue.  

 

I finally did get the cycling to work better, and the gun to group by creating:

- a barrel bushing on the slide

- a barrel bushing on the outer barrel for the inner barrel.

- hop rubber mod

 

Far too much work on one gun.  But after all this work, its actually pretty good, and I may not get rid of it.  Question is if WE will fix their production line...

 

While the VFC does look fantastic, the steel internals do concern me as the last time they did anything like that was on the VP9 which was a hard kicking, but fragile and a gas hog.

Hey dude. The screw is an issue as it is going into plastic treads. 

 

VFC newer pistols like the fns are as durable as they come. Very efficient and very strong blow back. 

The pot metal innards of WE pistols in general concern me and sometime depress me. 

 

Have to say though the compact or carry size as they call it look much better to me then the full size version. Hope VFC sort new frames soon. 

 

Edited by icolater

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On the WE M17, the inner frame is being held in place by the disassembly lever that prevent any upward movement anyways.  You can remove the screw and the gun will still function. 

 

It is unfair to paint an entire company bad, based on some of their product lines.  If I were to use the Ford Pinto to represent the value offerings of the Ford company, that would be highly biased view.

 

IMHO As an experienced engineer, 'soft smith, and gun smith of 20 years, the VFC line (both old and new lines) require far more work (i.e. time and money) to get it performing to field worthy standards, compared with other brands.  Aesthetically, they are the best, but functionally many models are still far from field functional out of the box.  The best gauge of whether the product design or production process has issues is whether the issues which affect the performance can be remedied by a tech via replacement of parts.

 

While WEs do have pot metal parts, they are far more durable than that of KWA offerings, particularly with their newer models.  If that particular part is replaced they are fine.  In the case of VFCs, their faults are usually from factory, or idiopathic in nature and not easily remedied without a complete re-engineer.

 

I currently own GHK, WE, KWA/KSC, KJ, and VFC GBB rifles and pistols.  Each selected model that I own, have their own strengths and weaknesses. 

 

I will not bad-mouth one brand over another, because their faults are model and batch dependent.  We are here to give people an informed choice of their offerings and risk with each model.

Edited by 3vi1-D4n
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On 9/5/2019 at 2:12 AM, 3vi1-D4n said:

Hey Dude. Iv been soft smithing myself for a very long time too. Big difference between old and new vfc offerings. My FNS has out lasted every WE iv owed. Plus if parts break I can just use the part guarantee no "re engineering" required LOL.

 

I like WE. I think they do a great job but they are not as reliable as newer vfc pistols because of poor material choice. Plus that screw on the we M17 is their for a reason, if the gun could be reliably used without it, it wouldn't be their. 

KWA use better matterials then we but have poor design in most of their gns. The Vector how ever remains the holy grail of gas guns. Best design ever with amazing internals. 

 

 

 

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I don't disagree VFC products have improved over time, it is model by model basis.   Likewise with the WE products, their durability and QC varies model by model basis.  On another page we can discuss the pros and cons of each model, and even the difference between a chrome and non chrome versions have varying differences in durability.

 

But for now, this page is here to discuss the WE M17.

 

While I cannot compare between the WE vs the VFC M17 in this case, I do have the WE M17 and M18 on hand.  From Personal and online reviews:

- WE M17/M18s comes with both trademarks and non trademarks on the slide

- WE M17/M18s stock comes with standard WE barrel and hop ups, which are part of the accuracy issue.

- WE M18 I had, has friction issues with the slide and trigger bar.  It has issues with fitting another M17 slide set, which has a weaker spring.

- WE M17 I have, has issues with wobbly inner/outer barrel resulting in an inability to hold zero, in addition to the poor accuracy from the standard WE barrel/hop set.

- WE M17s sell under AEG Branded, and may come pre-upgraded with aftermarket barrels to improve accuracy.

- WE M17s have good kick, and from online reviews have greater kick than the VFC.

- WE M17s with aftermarket inner barrels have better accuracy than standard VFC barrels.  VFC pistol in reviews tend to shoot high which either suggests inner to outer barrel alignment, hop rubber issues, outer barrel to slide fitment, or sights.

- WE M17 has an aluminium alloy Fire control group (not sure if it is ZAMAK as it doesn't oxidise readily), while VFC M17s are steel.

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18 hours ago, 3vi1-D4n said:

I don't disagree VFC products have improved over time, it is model by model basis.   Likewise with the WE products, their durability and QC varies model by model basis.  On another page we can discuss the pros and cons of each model, and even the difference between a chrome and non chrome versions have varying differences in durability.

 

But for now, this page is here to discuss the WE M17.

 

While I cannot compare between the WE vs the VFC M17 in this case, I do have the WE M17 and M18 on hand.  From Personal and online reviews:

- WE M17/M18s comes with both trademarks and non trademarks on the slide

- WE M17/M18s stock comes with standard WE barrel and hop ups, which are part of the accuracy issue.

- WE M18 I had, has friction issues with the slide and trigger bar.  It has issues with fitting another M17 slide set, which has a weaker spring.

- WE M17 I have, has issues with wobbly inner/outer barrel resulting in an inability to hold zero, in addition to the poor accuracy from the standard WE barrel/hop set.

- WE M17s sell under AEG Branded, and may come pre-upgraded with aftermarket barrels to improve accuracy.

- WE M17s have good kick, and from online reviews have greater kick than the VFC.

- WE M17s with aftermarket inner barrels have better accuracy than standard VFC barrels.  VFC pistol in reviews tend to shoot high which either suggests inner to outer barrel alignment, hop rubber issues, outer barrel to slide fitment, or sights.

- WE M17 has an aluminium alloy Fire control group (not sure if it is ZAMAK as it doesn't oxidise readily), while VFC M17s are steel

Cheers dude. When we first announced the M18 they said it would have a steel inner frame and parts, this is before they lost out on the licence. It's a pity because it would of set a precedent for future we pistols. 

Your right about chromed guns / parts lasting longer. My we m92 chrome version has lasted very well indeed. Only showing (bad) signes of wear in trigger and hammer group. Also on the marui menu,1911 etc. The disconnecter which is chromed last much longer then the rest of the trigger group. 

Happy plinking dude 👊

 

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