AG1212 Posted December 20, 2018 Report Share Posted December 20, 2018 Hi all, I got into a recent discussion about licensing trademarks in airsoft. I used TM as an example of a company that uses trademarks and produces products (glocks) without licesning agreements. They claimed that TM has licensing agreements for all their replicas. I know this isn't true for Glocks. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
PureSilver Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Japanese trademark laws seem to be complex and unintuitive. Japan obviously does have a very strict IP regime - any country that generates that kind of quantities of high technology has to - but it is pretty clear that few of TM's range are licensed. The Glocks obviously aren't and never have been; the same almost certainly goes for the H&Ks, Colts, Berettas and S&Ws, because the licenses for all of those are held by Umarex. The same also almost certainly goes for the SIGs, FNHs, the Desert Eagle and the FAMAS, because the licenses for all of those are held by Cybergun. The only obviously licensed products in TM's catalogue are special-edition videogame tie-ins; Capcom clearly licenses these products to TM. Exactly why it is TM (and KSC, and Western Arms, and basically every other Japanese manufacturer) is able to get away with this is a subject of much debate. It may be that Japanese copyright law distinguishes between products that are real and those that are replica, or maybe they conclude that because the average citizen will never encounter the real thing they cannot reasonably confuse the two, or maybe the legal system is so byzantine and the effect on real gun makers' sales so inestimably small that the licensees simply don't bother enforcing in the JDM. There are negotiated exceptions to the rules to get some guns imported. Evike (a major American retailer) is selling TM PS90s "officially licensed by FNH", which so far as I can tell is not a claim TM make. I think it's most likely that Evike have struck a deal with CyberGun to license these guns and Evike themselves are paying the licensing fee, rather than the manufacturer. Link to post Share on other sites
wildething Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 I'll need to check new models but TM trades used to be close to the real steel but different enough not to evcovered by Japanese copywrite. I don't think what they do would stand up in any non Japanese court which is another reason most of the Japanese airsoft companies have ever official exported their gear. Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 It was a very long time ago but I remember reading on a Japanese BBS that trademark licensing with TM is only given granted they are only for local distribution. This is why some of their guns don't have the right trademarks (FN 5-7) and some have gone from look-a-like trades to proper trades (S&W) after securing the license. If they didn't care about trademark infringement they would just put trades on everything since they know their customers want it. Link to post Share on other sites
AG1212 Posted December 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 That clears it up nicely, thank you Link to post Share on other sites
druid799 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Cybergun are well known for stitching up trad’s and going after anyone using them but you also have to think would you if your in business really want to screw around with a Japanese company that could potentially cause you real grief ? Link to post Share on other sites
Gunmane Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Now I am picturing a group of well-dressed Yakuza members showing up at Cybergun's HQ with TM lapels and intimidating the *suitcase* out of the execs. At the head of the group is Marui Man naturally, with TM logo tattooed on his back. A man can dream I guess... Link to post Share on other sites
druid799 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Gunmane said: Now I am picturing a group of well-dressed Yakuza members showing up at Cybergun's HQ with TM lapels and intimidating the *suitcase* out of the execs. At the head of the group is Marui Man naturally, with TM logo tattooed on his back. A man can dream I guess... Oh wouldn’t that be a lovely sight !😈 Link to post Share on other sites
renegadecow Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 15 hours ago, druid799 said: >Cybergun >screw around with a Japanese company that could potentially cause you real grief ? They actually did. In their heyday they tried to copyright the words "Tokyo Marui" and "Hop-Up". Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 They in fact did copyright 'hop up' and 'Marui' within France. In addition to 'Marushin', 'Maruzen', 'Western Arms', 'KSC' and whole load of other stuff too. The legal system in France is completely *fruitcage*ed. *fruitcage* cybergun. Link to post Share on other sites
Rob15 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 How the hell did they manage to trademark a metric unit of measure in a metric country? I think that says far more about the legal system in France than it does Cybergun themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 Indeed. It's astonishing. Link to post Share on other sites
TheFull9 Posted December 25, 2018 Report Share Posted December 25, 2018 excusé moi monsiuer but ze judge he waz far too bizee enjoying all ze drugs and gurls zat we 'ired for eem Link to post Share on other sites
1st Commando Posted January 3, 2019 Report Share Posted January 3, 2019 Bare in mind that Cybergun were able to use French Police to raid airsoft shops in France to check for "illegal" Glocks . CG had a lot of power there but they have given up or lost most of their trademarks and licenses now Link to post Share on other sites
Lone_Bullet Posted January 4, 2019 Report Share Posted January 4, 2019 Hopefully the exclusivity gets abolished soon.I don't mind licencing, but giving excusive right to *suitcasey* manufacturers is just dumb for both customers and real steel manufacturers.Don't they care about the reputation of a *suitcasey* replica?Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites
AG1212 Posted January 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 I say let the market decide, and since CGs stocks have been going down and down, i think it's working. https://markets.businessinsider.com/stocks/cybergun_1-stock Link to post Share on other sites
hitmanNo2 Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 They seem to be able to be holding on somehow. Like a cockroach. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.