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Gunnman

KWC-to-Western Arms 1911 frame and Hop Up conversion

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Much to my surprise, KWC copied Western Arms in many places when they made their 1911. The KWC metal frame is so similar to the Western Arm 1911 that with little modification I was able to fit the WA 1911 chassis in it. I fits much like the old Sheriff and Zeke frames from the late 90's. It's not with out it's flaws. There is no pin hole for the sear pin and the hole for the safety is too small. The MSH and grip safety from the WA does require a some modification to fit to the KWC frame. Nothing major though that would make it too hard to convert a frame from the KWC to a Western Arms. In other words, KWC is a Western Arms and Marui 1911 hybrid clone.

 

KWC-to-WA conversion:

 tKCiY15.jpg

 

The Hop Up unit from the KWC is also very similar to the WA hop up unit, but the seal on the nozzle from the WA is much more loose. I was able to convert it over by plastic welding more material on the WA nozzle. But I still have not tested the Unit in a WA pistol. Unfortunately, you'll need to use a KWC outer barrel (which does fit in a WA slide) because no other 1911 outer barrel/chamber fits the KWC hop up chamber. Evike has released their Angel Custom NEO Chamber for the KWC, which uses VSR hop up and barrel combo. Might pick up that unit for testing in my Western Arms, regardless of the Angel Custom reputation. Could you imagine a WA pistol with VSR bucking and barrel? The stock KWC uses a proprietary hop up bucking and barrel which is also a Marui and Western arms hybrid. 

0T2dq79.jpg

Slide from the KWC is completely proprietary, and will not fit any WA blowback unit. You might be able to fit a metal slide from the KWC on the WA, but I am not sure at the moment.

 

More in the future. 

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It looks like KWC used the Western Arms 1911 as a base for it's externals and the Marui as the base for it's internals. The slide stop and MSH are a sure fit in my WA pistol, and works. Like I said, the outer and inner barrel does fit the WA 1911, however, the nozzle on the WA is too short to make a seal in the bucking. Things like the grip safety, safety, slide and BBU from the KWC is made to WA specs, but won't work because of the hybrid design using Marui as a base. 

At least, For any of you WA enthusiast (I know there are a few still lurking around), it's a way to get metal frames for the WA 1911 to go with metal slides. If you are a pretty savvy tech, that is. Sheriff and Zeke are going for more than hundreds of pounds now, and are very rare. Prime and EDGE have become unicorns. Just food for thought.

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Thanks for the info Gunnman ,this is why Arnies still rocks, small nuggets of solid gold info! BTW. KWC copying WA (besides their UZI) happened in the past as well. Their old m92 was straight WA, although several years and iterations later they made their own bbu and did away with the decocker.  

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Great investigation work and thank you for taking the time to write it up.

Many years ago I took the HOP unit and complete Blowback unit from an early KJ P14 Para Ordnance (the TM/WA Hybrid type) and put them in a friends WA Magna Para Ord. It needed this whole set up to work in that the KJ  nozzle needed to mate with the  KJ HOP chamber. It certainly gave more range than the standard Magna HOP set up but power was down a little due I guess to the different floating valve arrangement.

I did repeat it once again but it was so long ago I cannot remember any specific mods, probably as they were so minor (if any).

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7 hours ago, jv83 said:

Thanks for the info Gunnman ,this is why Arnies still rocks, small nuggets of solid gold info! BTW. KWC copying WA (besides their UZI) happened in the past as well. Their old m92 was straight WA, although several years and iterations later they made their own bbu and did away with the decocker.  

It looks like the KWC frame is a metal version of their plastic frame they made for their National Match GBB 1911 line, they sold 15 years or so back. Which was also a WA and Marui clone in some respect. I do remember their M92 and Mini Uzi (I think they still make the Mini Uzi).

 

6 hours ago, Mobius Strip said:

Great investigation work and thank you for taking the time to write it up.

Many years ago I took the HOP unit and complete Blowback unit from an early KJ P14 Para Ordnance (the TM/WA Hybrid type) and put them in a friends WA Magna Para Ord. It needed this whole set up to work in that the KJ  nozzle needed to mate with the  KJ HOP chamber. It certainly gave more range than the standard Magna HOP set up but power was down a little due I guess to the different floating valve arrangement.

I did repeat it once again but it was so long ago I cannot remember any specific mods, probably as they were so minor (if any).

Actually, This would be ideal. I used the KJW hop up and blowback unit to great effect in my Zeke Colt Commander:

noHKLeK.jpg

It's a far better system than the KWC, I think. The KJ unit does require you to mod a Marui Hi-capa or 1911 barrel to fit the slide, but not much more. Can't find too many of those anymore, though

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hyb_comp_001.jpg

 
 
 
 
On 3/12/2020 at 4:43 PM, BigAl said:

Love Western Arms pistols.

 

Ditto :)

I think my WA SV Infinity Hybrid 6" is my favourite airsoft pistol, but, whilst I still have a few (somewhere!), the only pistol I regret selling is my WA Beretta Cougar.

M

Edited by snowman
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Really, never been a great fan of the Cougar.  Would be interested to here what you still have mate.

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Really, never been a great fan of the Cougar.  Would be interested to here what you still have mate.
I liked its rotating barrel design and I sourced a stainless barrel for mine, which gave it a unique look.

I know the SVI is still here along with my Tanaka Luger and S&W model 29, a number of WA Berettas, a 1911 and some other stuff.

Cheers.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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I found the spreadsheet I kept track of what I bought and sold on - These are the GBB and Revolvers I seem to have left 

HWS Remington New Model Army .44
WA Beretta Elite 1A
Marushin Automag GBB
Tanaka SIG P226
Tanaka Browning Hi Power silver
WA Colt 1911 US Army
Western Arms Beretta Elite 
SIIS IMI Desert Eagle MkXIX 10" Barrel
KSC H&K Mk23 SOCOM, Metal Slide & 2 x mags
Western Arms Beretta 92FS
Western Arms SV Infinity Hybrid Comp 6"
Tanaka Artillery Luger P08 & Spare Mag
KSC Beretta M93R
Tanaka S&W M29 6.5" 

I've also got an ICS H&K MP5 AEG that's never been outside and a TM S&W PC356 springer :)

Cheers.

Edited by snowman
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If you ever want to get rid of that Mk23, shoot me a PM.  I could be interested.  The WA 1911 and KSC M93R perhaps too. 

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J-armory is not OEM by KWC, at least i don't think so

WA pistol is way more powerful than any stock TM pistols, but range wise, not really, 

Kids these days are way too cheap and lazy to fix up a really nice WA 1911/2011, only OLD farts like myself still have them and use them,.

I do have bunch of WA parts somewhere in my parts bin, so if someone is looking for some WA parts, let me know, most of them are 1911/SV, magna or SCW ver

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WWJC, that's why I took a gamble on buying a KWC 1911. I was figuring they would have made molds similar to what they used when working with WA during their tenure making magnatech pistols. Plus, before I saw a KWC 1911 hop unit online and thought it looked errily similar to the SCW.

Hey, if you have any steel (like CP or PDI) SCW2/3 oval hammer, I might be interested. 

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On 6/12/2020 at 10:11 AM, hitmanNo2 said:

I thought that was J-Armoury?

J-Armory was actually made at the Western Arms building just like any other WA gun during that time. The real reason J-Armory was created was to use Springfield Armory trademarks, and avoid Western Arms being publicly sued by SA. WA president, Keiichi Kunimoto later met with Springfield CEO and made a "Gentlemen's agreement" for WA use Springfield name without any reprimand.

It was why all the early "Gilded" Face/Off V12 used Wilson trademarks. Because WA had Wilson's license. WA has stopped caring about licensing though for about 10 years since Japan has limited reprimand for using other companies names now.

Edited by Gunnman

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Japan never did care about trades, that how TM have got away with it for years.  P presume WA stopped bothering when they stopped trading overseas.

 

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On 7/19/2020 at 8:12 AM, BigAl said:

Japan never did care about trades, that how TM have got away with it for years.  P presume WA stopped bothering when they stopped trading overseas

That's what, I think. The problem with WA was the US patents they took out on the R-Type and SCW systems probably made it harder to get away with trademark infringement. Those patents have since been up since 2012

Edited by Gunnman

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