Marui M93r AEP

[Sledge]

As we're on a UK forum, and it was a UK member making the point, I think we'll use pounds. I really can't believe that the differences will be that much different in America.

 

[Agent Hunk]

1.00 USD

United States Dollars

 

=

 

0.568860 GBP

United Kingdom Pounds

 

 

For those wanting to have a better idea.

[Sledge]

You're still not getting the point, are you? Convert the prices to dollars and the percentages remain the same. The point doesn't require you to use pounds as your currency. Let's take money out of it.

I might shoot 4000 shots out of a pistol during such a weekend.

 

To achieve that with a GBB I'd need a pistol (70 bananas for a G18), 3 spare mags (20 bananas each) and a can of gas (6 bananas).

 

To achieve a similar performance with an AEP I'd need a pistol (100 bananas for a G18), 3 spare mags (15 bananas each) and spare batteries (15 bananas each).

 

So, for a GBB, that works out at 136 bananas for the GBB and 295 bananas for the AEP.

See?

 

The only way your being American works is if AEP batteries (£15 in the UK) are ridiculously cheap in the States. And we're talking a matter of cents for each battery. Got it?

 

[Hissing_Sid]

1.00 USD

United States Dollars 

 

= 

 

0.568860 GBP

United Kingdom Pounds

For those wanting to have a better idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you. I already have a clue.

 

Beyond that, the point remains that irrespective of if you do the sums in Sterling, Dollars or Guatamalian Flam-Flam beads the results stack up the same.

[Krazy L]

Yes well you guys do know that the day a AEP MP7 is released we shall all pee and ###### our selves as re race to the nerest store to buy one.

[snowman]

Can you define WE in this context?

 

Is that YOU, in fact, your Majesty?

 

Cheers.

[seth]

Hunk, while you do make a valid point about people bashing a particular airsoft weapon without touching them, I have to disagree with you here....

 

First of all, I have personal experience with the G18 AEP. Yes, I've fired it on full auto and single shot. Poor power, zero recoil, horrible gearbox noise, and the batteries don't last long. I'd rather take a KWC springer pistol, it's single shot, but at least I'll have 30 FPS more for $120 less, and it also has no recoil and plasticky feel (like the AEP!)

 

Your argument is based on two assumptions, of which you haven't proven with any credible data. Your assumptions read as follows:

 

I said [AEPs have] less strain then a GBB with a slide cosntantly flying back and fourth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

First of all, I question if you actually have a working understanding of both airsoft GBBs and/or real semi automatic handguns. Have you taken apart a GBB down to its sears? It really sounds like you haven't, because if you have, you'd know a GBB is much more simple in design with LESS moving parts than an AEG....which leads me to my next point.

 

Have you taken apart an AEG? Do you know HOW MANY moving parts an AEG has compared to a simple GBB design? There is SO much more to go wrong in a gearbox than a simple blowback operated handgun. Upgrading your AEP to 330 FPS would most likely require upgrading to gears of stronger materials, as well as bushings, for starters. Even then, pushing a tougher spring will cause your automatic RoF to drop drastically in that pistol, and increase semi auto trigger lag.

 

Of course, you can run a higher voltage battery, but then, where are you gonna put it? External battery bag taped to the side of the grip? Might as well go back to classic BV guns with external gas rigs.

 

Being that the primary stress point of a plastic slide GBB handgun is on the slide catch notch, replace the plastic slide with an aluminum one and you've eliminated the primary failure point. Other points of wear, such as the loading nozzle (which I've personally NEVER wore down to the point where I've had to replace it, after tens of thoussands of rounds on green gas) are 20 dollar upgrades to the aftermarket piece.

 

Now, tell me, what do you have to replace on an AEG to get it to fire 350 FPS RELIABLY? Bushings? Gears? Piston? Spring? Do you finally understand now that a GBB is actually SIMPLER than an AEG, therefore is less likely to fail under use with proper maintainence?

 

And yes you can beat a GBB. Some people prefer batteries to having to buy gas.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Or, some SMART people prefer to buy the Propane adaptor, and suddenly have green gas for pennies a fill. Or, buying cans of computer duster gas for mere dollars and using that as 134A with added silicone oil. Please use the "Search" function the next time before crying about how two types of common gases are burning a hole in your wallet. The electricity you use to charge your AEP batteries for 8 hours also isn't "Free," so it can be equated to the long-run costs of running Propane in a GBB. (Pennies a fill).

 

I say that the AEP has a long way to go if it wants to overtake GBBs as the signature airsoft weapons that give the sport its realism. I personally think its impossible, as it wouldn't be cost-effective to create an electric platform to emulate both blowback AND report that you get from a gas-operated weapon.

 

Real firearms are fueled by the expanding gases of gunpowder, and our GBBs by the expanding propane or 134A. Not by 7.2V 100maH batteries.

[figure.09]

I think that AEPs are great! There can't be anything better that a full auto backup weapon that can easily fit in a holster.

 

Cheers

 

Figure.09

[snowman]

So how does that ONLY apply to AEPs?

 

Equally it COULD include EBBs!

 

Cheers.

[The End]

sigh....

[Ch4plain]

Hissing Sid: You really need to take math again.

 

The battery for the AEP takes a little over an HOUR to charge. and lasts generally 300-400+ shots. (Mine lasted around 450 shots.) and that's just the stock 200mah battery. I couldn't tell you what a LARGE battery used with the battery lanyard would do for you.

 

Soooo, if you want to do 400 shots a day, the cost'll be alot less. No extra battery, still have to buy gas for your mags, and charge the mags over and over and over again.

 

If you want to see which will shoot 400 shots most efficiently? The AEP will. You don't have to recharge the mags after ever load.

 

Seriously, take math again, or at least don't use ASSUMPTIONS!

 

Right out of the gate, yes the AEP is more expensive. But it makes up for it over a little time because you save on gas and everything else associated with a GBB.

 

as for the propane adaptor? Sheesh, that put my USP over the cost of my AEP in one fell swoop.

 

And you have to remember, every weekend you'll have to get more gas, and more gas, and more and more and more and more and more.......... (you get the point).

 

With 2 of the 200mah batteries, you can go all weekend with recharges, and the next, and the next, and the next and on and on and on and on....................

 

The cost of gas, AND YES, even if you're using propane, will very quickly add up to much more than the AEP plus extra battery.

 

You get one gas charge per mag.

You get (at least with me) 15 mags per battery charge.

 

The cost efficiency quickly becomes evident.

 

Also, the mags for the AEP are $11, and the batteries are $15, NOT the 15 pounds you stated.

 

So, (from WGC) the cost of an AEP ($123), with 3 ($11 each) extra mags, and an extra battey ($15), comes out to $172.

The cost of a KSC G18C ($115) with 3 ($40 each) extra mags and gas is $235

 

Check my math. Please.

[Hissing_Sid]

Hissing Sid: You really need to take math again.

 

The battery for the AEP takes a little over an HOUR to charge. and lasts generally 300-400+ shots. (Mine lasted around 450 shots.) and that's just...blah...blah...blah...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whatever.

 

If I want to shoot 4000 shots over a weekend then I'll need to take 10 batteries with me.

 

Also, if you wind your neck back in for a minute, you'll see that I ALREADY pointed out that it was a rather extreme example that I was making. The point remains, though, that you need to budget for at least 2 or 3 batteries for the AEP.

 

It doesn't matter if the battery takes an hour to recharge if you won't be able to recharge it for the duration of a skirmish, does it?

 

[edit]

Also, after actually bothering to read your post, I'd like to point out that the ability to shoot 400 shots on a battery offers no advantage compared to a GBB.

You still need to reload after emptying all the BBs out of a mag.

 

With a GBB you then bung a new mag, with more BBs and gas in.

With an AEP you bung a new mag which just contains BBs in.

 

Neither case gives any advantage.

 

My maths is just fine thanks.

[Ch4plain]

My maths is just fine thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No, it is not. You still have to recharge the mags after every load. That means to equal one battery charge, you have to gas up each mag at least 3 times! That's 12 gas charges. Just to equal a 1 battery.

 

Also, everything about your math is wrong. The prices, the cost efficiency, the assumption that you need 10 batteries a day? Are you skirmishing 500 miles away from civilization that you can't charge 1 battery up? Or are you trying to use extremes to point out that yes, even batteries need to charge.

 

If that's the case, then you can't take any gas with you out into the field. Only mags. You'd have to carry 12-15 mags to equal one battery charge.

 

The cost efficiency of the AEP GREATLY outweighs that of a GBB. Cost of the gun is a little higher, but cost per mag is much lower, and the operating system lends to a more efficient manner as well. 400+ shots per battery charge, compared to one mag as it is with gas.

[seth]

Ch4plain, you've missed the point completely that I was trying to present to Agent Hunk.

 

The internals of an AEP is like an AEG on a SMALLER scale. Getting power output out of the electric platform would require much more modification and reinforcement to the gearbox than a simple metal slide upgrade for a GBB (and as you know, some GBBs made today come with metal slides, or are even full metal...)

 

In an AEG, there are MORE moving parts than in a GBB. Ever took apart a KSC Glock? One of the most simplest designs in airsoft next to the springer pistol....

 

Whatever your reasons for loving an AEP over a GBB, it apparently is only obvious to me that you believe the main advantage of the AEP is price....

 

If you're gonna be THAT cheap with your skirmish pistol, I can understand. But comparing the price of an AEP to a GBB the way you did doesn't make sense, because my KSC Glock 34 shot 330 FPS out of the box on propane (pennies a fill, might I remind you), while the AEP G18 shoots barely 220.

 

To get your AEP to 330 FPS RELIABLY and without a drop in RoF, please tell me how much that would cost again?

[Hissing_Sid]

No, it is not. You still have to recharge the mags after every load. That means to equal one battery charge, you have to gas up each mag at least 3 times! That's 12 gas charges. Just to equal a 1 battery.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm...

 

You just don't get it do you?

 

I can take a GBB and a £6 can of gas to a field and it'll shoot all weekend. 4000 shots. Job done.

 

To do that with an AEP you will need £150-worth of spare batteries.

 

Clear?

[seth]

Erm...

 

You just don't get it do you?

 

I can take a GBB and a £6 can of gas to a field and it'll shoot all weekend. 4000 shots. Job done.

 

To do that with an AEP you will need £150-worth of spare batteries.

 

Clear?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And what the boy forgets, is that even if the AEP battery would last 500 rounds (actually, one was tested here in Hawaii to barely knock 300 before it started to slow down), you would need EIGHT of them to match one can of green gas for $8 dollars (4000 shots, depending on your GBB-- for one of my Tanaka revolvers, 8000 shots easy!).

 

Eight batteries? Calculate initial cost, charging times, then, the annoyance of having to chance them out every 200-300 rounds. Also, keep in mind that charging those 8 batteries aren't "free," the electricity used to power them does cost money, which can be equated to the long-term expenses of using Propane tanks and the adaptor.

 

Even if the AEP is more cost effective by 5 cents per magazine, also remember it's a measly 220 FPS (lower than most spring pistols I have owned), has no recoil, feels, sounds, and LOOKS like a toy, and utilizes an electric system which is far more prone to breakdown than a simple blowback design due to the greater number of moving parts....

[Ch4plain]

Ch4plain, you've missed the point completely that I was trying to present to Agent Hunk.

 

The internals of an AEP is like an AEG on a SMALLER scale.  Getting power output out of the electric platform would require much more modification and reinforcement to the gearbox than a simple metal slide upgrade for a GBB (and as you know, some GBBs made today come with metal slides, or are even full metal...)

 

In an AEG, there are MORE moving parts than in a GBB.  Ever took apart a KSC Glock?  One of the most simplest designs in airsoft next to the springer pistol....

 

Whatever your reasons for loving an AEP over a GBB, it apparently is only obvious to me that you believe the main advantage of the AEP is price....

 

If you're gonna be THAT cheap with your skirmish pistol, I can understand.  But comparing the price of an AEP to a GBB the way you did doesn't make sense, because my KSC Glock 34 shot 330 FPS out of the box on propane (pennies a fill, might I remind you), while the AEP G18 shoots barely 220. 

 

To get your AEP to 330 FPS RELIABLY and without a drop in RoF, please tell me how much that would cost again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I'll do you one better.

 

Accuracy and distance.

 

Oh, what's that? The AEP is MUCH more accurate at stock power than a GBB? AND It fires at the relatively same distance as a 300fps GBB.

 

ALL STOCK? WOW! I didn't know THAT! OH wait, i did, because i stated that in my FIRST POST in this topic.

 

Stock wise the AEP, with much lower fps, (stated around the 200-220fps range) has Greater accuracy and equal range of a GBB running on Green Gas.

 

To get the gun to run reliably at 330 fps with no decrease in it's FANTASTIC ROF, it would require 5 things. $8 dollar metal bushing. $10 spring. $12 spring guide, Pistol lanyard/battery cord, and a Large battery.

 

That's it. You all seem to forget that yes this is a smaller AEG, and just like it's big brother is meant to handle higher fps with few critical upgrades. It is only when pushing the massive fps limits that critical parts, such as gears, need be replaced.

 

Also, the benefit of this is now you will have a AEP that will last for at LEAST 6000+ rounds on a G&P 8.4V 3300mah battery, with the SAME ROF, far outshooting a GBB of comparable power, and much better accuracy.

[Rob15]

ok, what hissing sid is saying is with a GBB you can recharge the mags on site, which takes what..4/5 seconds a can of gas costs about £6 which will do that loads of times

 

with the AEP it takes a lot longer to charge the battery, therefore he would need a lot more of them which costs a lot more money to start with add that to the cost of a AEP which is about £100 and it adds up quite a bit

 

the cost of bbs stays the same for GBB and AEP, however the cost of a GBB with enough gas for a day is about £75, the cost of a AEP with enough batterys would be £250

 

there for it is more economical to go for the GBB, especially if you are just starting out and are on a budget add to that the fact a GBB is more powerfull, easyer to maintain and more than likely more reliable why go for the AEP

[Pyro]

GBB= More fun

AEP= Practicle, boring and cheap

 

I alreay have my AEG for practicality, all i want is a backup that's fun!

[Sledge]

Which GBB is the AEP more accurate than? And what data are you basing this on?

 

[Ch4plain]

ok, what hissing sid is saying is with a GBB you can recharge the mags on site, which takes what..4/5 seconds a can of gas costs about £6 which will do that loads of times

 

with the AEP it takes a lot longer to charge the battery, therefore he would need a lot more of them which costs a lot more money to start with add that to the cost of a AEP which is about £100 and it adds up quite a bit

 

the cost of bbs stays the same for GBB and AEP, however the cost of a GBB with enough gas for a day is about £75, the cost of a AEP with enough batterys would be £250

 

there for it is more economical to go for the GBB, especially if you are just starting out and are on a budget add to that the fact a GBB is more powerfull, easyer to maintain and more than likely more reliable why go for the AEP

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just pointed this out didn't I?

 

An AEP costs $123, with 3 mags ($11 each), and 2 extra batteries, ($15 each), total coming to $188.

 

A KSC G18C with 3 extra mags and gas comes out to $240.

 

Cheaper? NO.

 

The fact is that you have to recharge the gas mags after every use. You have to replace the battery after every 15 mags.

[Ch4plain]

Which GBB is the AEP more accurate than? And what data are you basing this on?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My data, seeing as I owned them both. The AEP being of course the G18c, and the GBB being a KSC Compact USP.

[Ch4plain]

The one thing i love about you guys saying that "You'll need 10 batteries to equal one can of green gas" is that you're allowing yourself to recharge your mags, but not allowing the batteries to be recharged.

 

Isn't that a bit hypocritical? If you are allowed to recharge, then so should I. Otherwise, you would need 12-15 fully gassed mags to equal 1 battery charge.

[Rob15]

I just pointed this out didn't I?

 

An AEP costs $123, with 3 mags ($11 each), and 2 extra batteries, ($15 each), total coming to $188.

 

A KSC G18C with 3 extra mags and gas comes out to $240.

 

Cheaper? NO.

 

The fact is that you have to recharge the gas mags after every use. You have to replace the battery after every 15 mags.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

erm, i did miss that because i was typing i can't watch the topic in another window becuase im running a load of programs that are cleaning up the files on my computer

[Sledge]

Sid's point being, for a weekends use at say 4000 rounds, you would need more batteries. This really isn't that hard to understand, you know.

 

As for the accuracy comparison, I haven't fired a KSC USPc, so I shan't comment on it.