Sale Posted August 27, 2005 Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 Glad to hear you got it working! Full Metal Jacket beat me to it but I have to add that we classic airsofters use teflon tape for all threads that are supposed to hold air. Hot damn! This makes me want to get one too! -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 27, 2005 Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 ha ha! Hero to the airsoft community, Electrical Tape to the rescue again! Link to post Share on other sites
mac11freak Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 I have also now completed this upgrade, and if you own this gun you must complete this upgrade to it!!! I can now empty a full mag on full auto (full burst). There is considerable "cool down" for the last 10-15 shots but it still fires. I can get 2 full mags on semi and 1.5 on full auto burst (depending on how close the bursts are together) The only thing that I had some trouble with was the "10cm's" of electrical tape was to much for my gun. I only used about half of that, maybe even less. The best way to tell how much tape you need is by testing the piston in the cylinder with your hand before installing it into the gun and make sure that the resistance is about the same as the original piston. I am now overjoyed with this gun..... The only thing that I didnt like about it was the gas consumption problem, but now that thats solved its by far the best GBB i've ever owned or fired!!! KSC 23F fully loaded KSC M11 KJW M9 + many others Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Firebrand, you may just be my hero - you have improved a gun that is already top-notch! As luck would have it, I have a KWC Mini Uzi, a spare Shooter's Design Hi-Capa piston head set, and about 200 CO2 capsules lying around. I will be trying this mod soon. I was just wondering how many rounds you have put through your gun with this mod. Once it reaches about 2,000 shots (about 50 full mags), I think we can consider this a safe modification and I will add details of it to the Review Database under the KWC Minu-Uzi section (giving you full credit of course). It certainly sounds like a winner, but I would be hesitant to recommend any upgrade that might destroy the gun after a short period. Kudos Link to post Share on other sites
BakaBox Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 The piston should be on it's way soon. I'll report back after it's installed too. Link to post Share on other sites
elrey Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Excellent. I'm definitely considering one. Link to post Share on other sites
Firebrand Posted September 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Thanks for all the positive feedback guys, I'm glad some of you finally decided to give this mod a go. Mac11freak, your probably right about the amount of electrical tape used, thinking back to when I installed the piston head, I may have chopped a bit off too. No matter what kind of tape you use, or how tightly you wrap it, it's very much a case of testing the fit for the right amount of resistance, and then cutting bits off as required. I've put 3 CO2 mags through my Uzi so far, I'm keeping it well lubricated of course, and I've had no problems at all as of yet. I'm expecting some KWC CO2 gas valve kits to arrive soon, I'll report back how it performs on green as soon as. And as for the review and testing, I'm happy if you wanna go ahead and do that, R22Master. I'm well chuffed, Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted September 1, 2005 Report Share Posted September 1, 2005 Well deserved mate Let me know when you've put 10 or more CO2 capsules through your gun with this mod, and I'll consider it safe enough to try on my own gun. Once done, I'll have put 100 or more through my modded gun faster than you can say "Holy cat in a dog basket!" Once I've done it, I will have some personal experience of the modification, so I will be able to write about it a little better. Once this stage is reached, I will liase with you Firebrand, about how to structure the modification text and we'll get something up in a visible place Cheers for the outstanding effort so far. Link to post Share on other sites
mac11freak Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Since doing this mod (this morning) I have put about 15-20 mags worth through it and have had no issues. It still fires as flawlesssly as it did without the mod, but now it fires for much longer. What you have to remember is that this mod doesnt effect the rate of fire or fps it just improves on the gas efficiency. It is my humble opinion that if you own this gun you **MUST** perform this mod on it. The only issue that I had was during installation.... It took me 3 tries to get the correct ammount of tape around the piston to match the exact diameter of the original piston. Awesome Modification!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hmm... Who was that handsome bald guy who told to check out if a Hi-Capa piston head would work? And provided rough measurements as a shove in the right direction? Just kidding. There is no 'I' in 'team'. -Sale Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Yeah, nice suggestion Sale. You supplied the acorn, Firebrand grew it in to a tree, and I stole the tree and tried it myself! Yup, I have just done this upgrade on my KWC Mini-Uzi, and put 10 CO2 capsules through it. This is DEFINITELY an essential upgrade to this gun - it works brilliantly. I estimate that gas consumption has approximately halved what it was before the upgrade. A Full magazine will now spray out in one burst without running out of gas, although by the time the last BB has been fired, cooldown has weakened the blowback to the point where it won't lock back. Shooting full auto in normal bursts though fixes this and leaves you enough gas to reload the mag with BBs and get about half of another mag firing. This gun is now absolutely perfect! A couple of additional notes on the upgrade though... I used PTFE tape (Plumbers tape) instead of teflon or electrical tape as it is designed to provide a perfect seal against pressurised fluids. This works brilliantly and 5cm length was used. I experienced a few feed jams initially as there was a little resistance in the blowback chamber's return. What was happening was that the blowback chamber started scooping a BB from the mag while it was still in its forward position. This dislodged a BB and knocked the blowback chamber back. As the blowback chamber hit its backstop, it knocked another BB free, forcing two in to the breech at the same time, or knocking one loose inside which got stuck by the side of the nozzle, jamming the gun. The feed jams only occured during the first two capsules though and it is now firing flawlessly. The screws removed during "Step 4" of Firebrand's guide (above) were VERY stiff. The screw closest to the nozzle actually sheered its head completely off rather than unscrew. As a result my "nozzle location assembly" is now only held on by one screw and the remaining num of the broken second screw. It still works though. Info probably worth adding to the final guide. Other than that, the upgrade works, the gun is improved, recoil is slightly better, but not massively. The big plus is definitely the vastly improved gas consumption rate. It's not difficult to see why either. On removing the old piston-head, I noticed it wasn't a rubber valve like you see in most GBBs, it was a hard plastic cup! No flexibility at all, and its diametre is smaller than the cylinder it runs inside. This is what is leading to the low gas consumption. The next test is to see how this gun does with this new upgrade and the Green Gas adapter. I'll have a chat to Airsoft Scotland later Thanks for all the info provided in this thread. This is truly a good example of a group effort modification. Link to post Share on other sites
Sale Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 Shut up everyone! You're making me want one! Link to post Share on other sites
BakaBox Posted September 2, 2005 Report Share Posted September 2, 2005 You should want one. You should get one! Great fun they are, young Sale. Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted September 3, 2005 Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 Shut up everyone! You're making me want one! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hehehe But you should want one. I know you have a soft spot for Classic Airsoft - This gun with this modification displays all the good points of a distinguished classic, with all the good points of a hi-tech modern replica. There is no other gun on the market that has all these qualities Link to post Share on other sites
Firebrand Posted September 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2005 I was hoping to to see how the Uzi performs on green gas this weekend, but the package I was expecting with the conversion kits have been held by Parcel Farce, and I can't get through to speak to anyone 'til Monday. Thought I was making a saving ordering from HK, now it doesn't seem likely I'll see my stuff until the end of next week, and they'll probably charge me an extra £10 for the priviledge of storing my package, on top of the VAT, Duties and of course HANDLING FEE. B******S! Last time I order anything from overseas. Link to post Share on other sites
Firebrand Posted September 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 UPDATE: Fitting the KWC Gas Valve kit INSTALLATION Before installing the gas valve, all the original internals have to be removed. This is made a lot easier with the proper tool, Z50. 1, Use the magazine key(plier), part:KF07 or a large straight head screwdriver to remove the magazine base/screw, part:KB24. 2, Now using tool Z50(valve tool), part:U04 and a straight head screwdriver, guide the tool into the magazine well, with the screwdriver recess facing outward. Use the screwdriver to push the valve tool all the way into the magazine. Turn the screwdriver to locate the valve tool into the valve groove. Now turn the the screwdriver anti clockwise until the vavle drum is free, remove it and the screw driver and valve tool. 3, To remove the valve cap which will still be left in the magazine, use a screw driver to lever the valve cap, rotating it slightly to break the seal. Now you should be able to shake the valve cap free, by hitting the magazine against your palm 2 or 3 times to dislodge it. Be careful not to lose the small nylon disc which sits in a recess on top of the valve cap. 4, Now prior to inserting the gas valve, it's recommended to grease the rubber seal with silicone grease or other non petroleum based grease. Screw in the valve tightly using the magazine key. 5, Fill the magazine with gas, either red gas(C02) or Green gas(HFC22) is suitable for this gun. Check for any leakage by submerging the bottom of the magazine in water, if you see bubbles then the gas valve may not be tight enough. PERFORMANCE Green Gas(HFC22) - 39 shots Fully automatic was possible, but there is significant cool down. By the last shot the gun doesn't lock back and the remaining gas is dumped from the magazine. Firing in short sharp bursts yields good ROF and kick with each burst, it is possible to empty an entire magazine this way without the effects of cool down becoming too apparent. It is necessary to top the magazine up with gas before reloading however, as there is only enough gas left over for several more shots. Firing in semi increases the economy a little and you may be able to fire around 50 shots this way. On the whole I'm quite impressed with the way the Uzi now performs on green gas, it's obviously a lot less powerful which should facilitate its use as a skirmishing weapon. I'm satisfied that I have now achieved what I set out to do, and made the Uzi function economically and practically on cheaper, less powerful gas. Link to post Share on other sites
BakaBox Posted September 5, 2005 Report Share Posted September 5, 2005 I have the green gas adapter (one for each magazine), and both green and red gas. All I need now is that piston. Link to post Share on other sites
blitz Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 can any other pistons be used as i cant ind the hicapa one on any uk site i think i want one deffintely now aswell Link to post Share on other sites
Firebrand Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 can any other pistons be used as i cant ind the hicapa one on any uk site i think i want one deffintely now aswell <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you can't find the Shooters Design set, then the PGC set for the Hi-capa should work as well. Given the choice I'd go for the SD set because it has an extra O-ring. But I couldn't find either set from any UK airsoft suppliers. Any other replacement piston head for the Hi-capa would probably work, provided that the O-ring can be removed and modified to fit the Uzi. I don't know of any other GBB pistols that have piston heads, so I can't really suggest where to start looking for alternatives in the UK. Why can't you order the part from HK anyway?... I've not had any bad experiences ordering from overseas(hope I didn't put you off ordering from HK), but I am disappointed when I get charged extra for VAT and clearance fees, for goods that I might only have to pay a small amount of duties for, the clearance fee is always the same(usually £15 from Parcel Force). And despite what I might of said earlier, I don't think you can beat the price, availability and vast range of parts and accessories Hong Kong airsoft suppliers have. And I would definitely order from them again. Links: SD Piston Head - Dentrinity SD Piston Head - UN Company PGC Piston Head - UN Company CO2 Magazine Adapter - UN Company Link to post Share on other sites
ColtFarmer Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 this is a great thread, it's helped a lot in upgrading my Uzi. I would like to know if anyone has Chrony'd a piston upgraded and green/propane gas powered Uzi. I would like to know if the power is a reasonable level for skirmishing. =) cheers to a great thread! Link to post Share on other sites
R22Master Posted September 30, 2005 Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 The un-upgraded green-gas version chronos at about 350fps, so the upgraded one will also be somewhere around that mark (340 to 360fps). In the UK, this is un-skirmishable, but in Canada, you would have to check with your local field Link to post Share on other sites
snorkelman Posted October 15, 2005 Report Share Posted October 15, 2005 apologies fro revisiting an old thread but.. Truly a great fix Upgraded mine with PDI hicapa piston head with similar results (much more efficient than out of the box) as far as its unmentionable fps goes has anyone looked at reducing flow from the mag valve to bring power down a little? Total speculation on my part as im still trying to get my head round finer points of the blowback mech but Im assuming that would have opposite effect to a hiflo valve eg either replacing with a valve with lower flow (if valve from other GBB mag could be found that fits), or filling and then re-drilling standard valve? stevie Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 For Mags that are leaking out the top... Check out this thread. Seven Click Up's suggestions on top Orings Link to post Share on other sites
WarMonger Posted October 29, 2005 Report Share Posted October 29, 2005 i dont know what kinda c02 capsules you guys are using but they must be ######. i get nearly a full mag out save two or three rounds left in the magazine. Link to post Share on other sites
BakaBox Posted November 4, 2005 Report Share Posted November 4, 2005 i dont know what kinda c02 capsules you guys are using but they must be ######. i get nearly a full mag out save two or three rounds left in the magazine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> On full auto non-stop without this mod? Link to post Share on other sites
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