The look of XM's?

[onidemonXLR]

Ive been looking at all the new XM8's, and i get this sinking feeling that Americans are going to get made fun of once we switch over. God those guns look like plastic'ed up weenie guns that, in my opinion, look like Super Soakers. What happened to the manly, all American Armalite????

 

Does anyone here share my pain, or do you have a contradicting view. Please discuss.

[Sledge]

1) We've done this to death

2) The XM8 is a fantastic looking gun

4) What happened to 3?

5) The AR-15 is an ungodly abomination that cannot hope to compare with the work of the twin gods Heckler and Koch

6) Woo hoo! US military finally admitting US guns suck compared to European! First the pistols, now the rifles. In your face, America! Europe! *fruitcage* yeah! Coming to replace your crappy guns!

3) Ah, here it is. And it's got a Beretta, for the win.

 

[rhino]

Hamburgers, definitely Hamburgers...

 

Edit: Explanation for "Hamburger Guns" given

[onidemonXLR]

Ok.... Uh, Sledge, i have to ask

 

on point 6, how did this thread make the US military admit that American guns suck. Were AMERICANS you know we never admit to anything when weve done it wrong . jk jk. Anyway... keep 'er posting people.

 

My counter points

 

1.) the XM8 is so far unbattle tested

2.) How many wars have been fought with HK's?

3.) How are Armalites crappy (and dont give me that "they jam all the time" ######. Thats only with high carbon BLANK rounds

[Sledge]

1) By that logic, no new weapon would ever be adopted.

2) How many wars that have been won have been fought with Armalites?

3) American gun. Therefore: crappy. Simple.

 

Oh, and where's that CYMA XM8? I've been waiting like, forever!

 

[onidemonXLR]

*sighs and prepares flame thrower

 

"i really hope i dont have to use this"

 

Seriously, more counter points. This is becoming a fine argument Sledge. 'En garde!

 

Counterpoints

 

1.) I agree. Im saying, the XM8 is completely untested outside of government firing ranges. therefore, you and i cant vouch for its combat effectiveness.

2.) hmmm... i said fought, so Vietnam counts, DS1 and Afghanistan and Iraq. So.... 4 wars.

3.) So the .45 1911 is crappy. That is known as one of the best pistols in the world. The M9 is crappy. That is a renowned pistol too. The M16 is crappy? then why have we fought many wars with it? The M1 Garand, the gun that we fought a world war with, sucks?

 

Meh. Bring it one Sledge

*pulls out flamethrower

 

PWNd3d!

 

ONi

[Steve Pearson]

I'm not going to vote coz I'm still out on the jury regarding it's looks..

 

Firepower wise. Nice.

 

Watch the operation/firing videos on the link below.

 

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/blackwater/?s=2004_videos

 

and scroll down to the very bottom till you see XM8.

 

Steve.

[Sledge]

1) Yes, but it's not a useful point. All weapons are untested in combat until someone tests them in combat. It's not a particularly pertinent observation, now is it?

2) You didn't win Vietnam, you got your butts quite embarrassingly kicked by peasants with AKs; DS1 was unresolved, given the number of troops in place enforcing no-fly zones, etc; Afghanistan was barely a conflict, and I don't think war was ever declared; and I can only presume you haven't seen the body counts in Iraq recently if you think you "won" that one.

3) M9 is a Beretta, designed by... Italians! The M16 is outdated and inferior to so many modern rifles. The M1 Garand: 8 round clip, can't be reloaded until empty... yeah, that's a real fine piece of work. The 1911 is the one decent gun you can find, and it's going on 100 years old! Not exactly a glowing endorsement of the US firearms industry.

 

[onidemonXLR]

Curse you 56k! my internet sucks, so i cant watch those movies. Anyway, throw more wood on the fire people, this threads gettin stale!

[onidemonXLR]

1.) Ok... i said FOUGHT, not won. Btw, the US hasnt declared war since WWII, so, if were talking war here, you win. Im talking about "conflicts" that should be called "wars" beacuse of the sheer involvement by the US.

Vietnam, we left

DS1, there is no way you can say we didnt win

Afghanistan- yeah that was a conflict. People DIED, so dont tell me it didnt count

DS2- uh, we control the country. All we have is a bunch of die-hards blowing themselves up. Thats a great way to fight a war

 

3.) OK, you got me on the Barettas. On the 1911's, does age really matter? M1 garand- can i point out at the time the brits were using Lee Enfields (bolt action anyone?)

M16- im saying M16A2. Find me points of why it is inferior (i agree it is old) and ill believe you.

 

All ive gotten so far are me, sledge and Steve. Cmon people, post more!

 

ONi

[expvideo]

First off, I love the way the answers to this poll are worded. Second, I love my Colts. But I do think it's time to replace them with something a little more modern. And the XM8 has grown on me enough that I think we should probably get those. However, we ARE becoming starship troopers. And that gun isn't helping.

 

Aaron

[Sledge]

1) So you concede my point on combat testing?

2) Not my fault you listed confilcts when I clearly said "wars." The trick to successful debating is to pick arguments you can win.

3) Ambidextrous selector switch. M16 disnae have. And what's the UK rifle of the time got to do with it? I'm pointing out that the M1 was a flawed weapon. Especially given the Germans were developing modern assault rifles at the time. The Lee Enfield was a tested design that worked.

 

[Steve Pearson]

I'd much prefer something like an Armalite (M4 to be exact) though as our SA80's used to rust up to buggery in the desert, come to think of it they used to rust up to buggery regardless where it was (that includes the so called new and improved A2's).

Internally too many fiddley bits that used to, and still do for that matter, break or become fused together after excessive firing.

 

Don't get me wrong though, they could still stop an elephant in its tracks and it was a very accurate weapon, more so than an M4.

 

However, the Armalites of recent are a very versatile weapon indeed. Very easy to maintain and operate. Internally there are only a few working parts, hence cleaning is very quick and easy.

On several occassions we got a chance to use them in the Gulf alongside our American collegues. While our '80s were jamming with sand the M4's were still firing.

Didn't seem as accurate as the SA80 though, but thats probably because we were so used to using SA80's, and like wise for the American squaddies. We found that a lot of American squaddies hated their Armalites but loved our SA80's, whereas we hated our SA80's but loved their Armalites. Not too keen on the retractable stocks. A bit rattly for my liking.

 

Did you know the British Army were initially going to get the Armalite instead of the SA80?

 

A weapon is only as good as the person using it.

 

Steve.

[onidemonXLR]

I concede Sledge *bows

 

ONi

[Sledge]

*Shakes hands*

Well fought, sir.

 

To return to the topic, I think the XM suffers the same problem that new guns always do. The G36 looked too futuristic or toy like when first released, now people love them. Anything that deviates from the Armalite/AK standard is always going to look weird until you get used to it. To put it another way, when I first got my M945, I kinda didn't like it. I kept looking and thinking "What an ugly 1911." It wasn't until I stopped comparing it to something it wasn't that I found it's true beauty.

 

[expvideo]

no wars only conflicts huh? we are at WAR with Iraq. Bush declared war. As in, it is not a conflict.

 

And Sledge, please back your statements up. American gun, therefor crappy isn't a good arguement. I'm starting to get nervous of buying european guns. It seems to me that you europeans are a little convinced that you make the best stuff. Which leads me to believe your gun companies might not be willing to accept returns on defective rifles, as it HAD to have been stupid americans breaking them, not a deffective rifle that was GERMAN engineered! Just seems like there's a little arogance in this arguement

 

 

Aaron

[DarkLite]

Er, Just to make it clear:

 

The XM8 is just a G36 slapped into a different shell.

 

Is being made by The US division of H&K.

 

Of course, using G36s instead would be cheaper and faster, but then it wouldn't be an AMERICAN gun...

[onidemonXLR]

*pulls knife as Slegde shakes hand*

HA!

 

no jk

 

meh. Maybe theyll grow on me, but until they get cheaper, and i get more StarshipTrooper'ish, they're still ugly as hell

 

Expvideo, i agree completely on all your above points.

[Sledge]

Ok, how about: the US Military isn't buying American guns? Unless you want to concede that the US military knows jack about guns?

 

[expvideo]

We Ameicans don't have wars anymore. We have "heated non-verbal debates"

[Hissing_Sid]

An XM8 yesterday.

[expvideo]

An XM8 yesterday.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Steve Pearson]

I'm not getting involved in this

 

I can feel the battle lines being drawn even as I write.

 

[Sledge]

XM8: the only rifle that tastes good battered, served with chips and lightly sprinkled with salt and vinegar.

 

[onidemonXLR]

We Ameicans don't have wars anymore.  We have "heated non-verbal debates"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

*sputters*

 

Listen to this kid! WARS!!! everyone know americans dont have wars anymore!

 

yup thats us

 

ONi

 

EDIT: rofl on the fish pic

 

and.... im having one of those evil urges to make a snarky, heavily edit picture of an XM8 being held in the hands of a circus clown with red rubber nose. Dont mess with me