The look of XM's?

[Onechance]

What's your problem?

You sound like some redneck gun-bunny yokel.

 

Hate to steer the topic off track even further but I gotta say that I disagree with the whole "Britain produces no decent guns" thing.

The L85A2 has proved itself to be more reliable than the M16 and it's only half the age.

I'd also like to point out that for the time where BAe owned HK britain was producing G3s, MP5s etc and I think it's fair to say that they're some of the best guns in the world.

 

On topic, if you look at how long it took for the springer MP7 to get over here don't hold your breath while waiting for the LPEG XM8 to show up.

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The sten, sterling, lee enfield and the Bren and they're all old designs.

 

Back on topic if the XM was the best AEG, and had no problems i would go for it.

[unimatrix001]

I remember the same discussion in airsoft about the G36 and the P90. "Ooh, they look like toys/too futuristic/not enough metal." Now they're regarded as two of the best AEGs. Meh.

 

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indeed... it's the same old "form follows function" vs. "function follows form" story.

 

The European weapon manufacturers decided for "form follows function" (material and design has to fulfil the needs of function) while wide parts of the US market opted for "function follows form" (every gun needs to look/work like an AR15, function predicted by the design)

[CZFan]

Geez fellas. Try posting some facts and links.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92F/FS

http://www.thegunzone.com/m9-a.html

 

Now, let's all just agree to blame the French.

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negative. it is not about it sucking or not (that is up to each's opinion, like i think glocks suck)

 

this is about him saying that only the one made in the US sucks. funny bloke ain't he.

 

ps.

 

but since suck is more a matter of opinion, how about reinstating his "point" again for those who should not have to suffer through 3 pages of "i can't prove squat capt'n". he clearly said that there are structural faults and an inferior build quality in the same piece of al. alloy and steel just because it is built "over there"..

 

this is a direct implication that is completely false and only dumped out of spite for whatever reason.

 

sad thing is some kid will read it and assume it's true and this is how rumours begin.

[Hissing_Sid]

this is about him saying that only the one made in the US sucks. funny bloke ain't he.

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Well, surely the best way to counter that would be to point out that the faulty ones were the first batch, supplied by Beretta, using sub-standard French steel.

 

That'd be far more constructive than tit-for-tat insults and bickering.

[Xaccers]

Well, surely the best way to counter that would be to point out that the faulty ones were the first batch, supplied by Beretta, using sub-standard French steel.

 

That'd be far more constructive than tit-for-tat insults and bickering.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And it blames the French! huzzar!

 

Anyway, now I have experience with a CA36, I have to say I prefer a folding stock to a sliding stock (from my MP5) as the butt plate when retracted would catch on my wrist.

So I think I'll definitely be saving my money and not converting to a XM8 just yet

[M1911A2 guy]

Well, the only positive choice on the poll was extreme beauty, which I don't think the X/M8 is, but I like the looks of the rifle. Its a good gun to boot, so if the poll choices weren't so, err, extreme opposites, I would have chosen the choice of "Attractive, functional rifle".

 

Amazingly, my post seems to be the only relevant post in the last ten pages of bickering in which only say six or seven people know enough about what they are talking about to hold an honestly educated and backed opinion. Everybody else is either ragging on the States for no reason, or ragging on the people ragging on the States. Also, the AR15 has kicked enough *albatross* in the past to be either retired or replaced. I still believe it is among one of the best assault rifles in the world at this very moment, and I have reasoning to back it. But what happens when you have the same rifle in service for so many years is that the gun just becomes worn. M16A2's from 1987 are still in use by armor crews and tankers, still in good working condition, but still old. New M16A4s and M16A3s in the field are being used by lucky USMC folk, serving their purpose of ending human life quite well. Isrealis are still using AR15s over many other rifles in the world, because it is a great rifle. It is going to be one of the most controversial things ever constructed on in human existence. Special forces and special operations capable groups and forces are going to use the AR15 well into the replacement of it by the US Military, because it is a damn good rifle. Basically, we are never going to see the end of the AR15, no matter how much some people want it completely out of existence. End of story. If you want to argue anything about the rifle to anyone, either start a different topic or PM them, don't pollute topics with spam and false facts backed by rumors and speculation.

 

As for Vietnam, the US lost around 70,000 men. That is a statement from the US government of the casualties form our involvement from 1954 to 1975. Recently, North Vietnam has released casualty counts on the lowest end, every number believed to be a legitimate number, ON THE LOWEST END OF THE SPECTRUM, to be 1.5 million Vietnamese killed. Not wounded, not blind or deaf or disfigured, but DEAD Vietnamese. Vietnam said that over 53% of the casualties were because of small arms fire(Hmm, what was the name of that pesky rifle the Yanks used in Vietnam?)and the remaining 47% due solely to air bombings, napalm, agent orange, and artillery, with the etcetera included of course. We might not have stopped the NVA from invading South Vietnam and turning it communist, but we DID kick the everloving, God forsaken, horrific because of the amount of death two peoples are willing to cause to each other, S-H-I-T *beep* out of the Vietnamese, regardless of a victory or not. They might have accomplished their goals, but saying the M16 hasn't proved itself as a killing machine is simply ridiculous and arrogant.

 

Also, I believe Sledge mentioned the M1 garaned as being a "real fine piece of work". Well, it was. It was a very accurate, powerful, reliable weapon that although the enbloc clip couldn't be removed from the gun until it was empty, could infact be reloaded via stripper clips that held 8 rounds of 30-06 ammo. Real fine piece of work? Was probably the best rifle in the war, thanks to a Canook named Garand.

 

So this concludes my rant. If anyone disagrees,please PM. The spamming and useless flaming on this forum is getting out of control, and sadly, the majority of the people who protest it start it. Cheers.

 

EDIT: Accidently put 1.5 instead of 1.5 million. HUGE difference there.

[Sledge]

I disagree. The XM8 is beautiful!

 

[Sale]

Also, when the L85 was sent to H&K to be "fixed" they were owned by BAE/RO.

 

It's german engineering nonetheless. Brits couldn't make a working piece so the germans remade it, no matter who owns the company on paper.

 

The side arm of the British Military that has been in service for so many years is the FN Browning Hi-power, Designed in Belgium, Made in Belgium and better than the M1911.

 

"In the early twenties, John Moses Browning and FN Herstal jointly designed the original Browning 9mm Hi Power single action pistol." http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/mk3/index.htm

 

The FN Browning, just like almost every modern handgun, is based on the patents of John Browning. It's essentially an american design (1911) in a smaller caliber and double stack magazines. Browning did the base work (which still apply to almost every service pistol you can think of), and also many of the improvements.

 

"Better than the M1911." A few SWAT operators might beg to differ about that, and I wouldn't even think about questioning their validity to choose their weapons.

 

And to balance out the hype about FN Brownings, the official sidearm of the Finnish army is the FN Browning BDA model, and it's considered by the vast majority of finnish soldiers to be the worst handgun ever produced. Us peacekeepers are issued SIG Sauer P226's because the FN's can't be trusted.

 

So about the look of XM's. Anyone feel like talking about them? 8)

 

-Sale

[Sledge]

These the same SWAT operators who use a 5.56 rifle for CQB?

 

The XM8 looks lovely, in a fishlike way (apparently). I can't see the fish thing myself, but... meh.

 

[ECHO419]

while everyone is on the topic of the XMs, what is the XM25? it looks almost like the smg variant they showed on that chart with a thermal scope

[Xaccers]

while everyone is on the topic of the XMs, what is the XM25? it looks almost like the smg variant they showed on that chart with a thermal scope

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It's a grenade launching assault weapon type thingy

 

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl13-e.htm

[Bob_Marley]

It's german engineering nonetheless. Brits couldn't make a working piece so the germans remade it, no matter who owns the company on paper.

"In the early twenties, John Moses Browning and FN Herstal jointly designed the original Browning 9mm Hi Power single action pistol." http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/mk3/index.htm

 

The FN Browning, just like almost every modern handgun, is based on the patents of John Browning. It's essentially an american design (1911) in a smaller caliber and double stack magazines. Browning did the base work (which still apply to almost every service pistol you can think of), and also many of the improvements.

 

"Better than the M1911." A few SWAT operators might beg to differ about that, and I wouldn't even think about questioning their validity to choose their weapons.

 

And to balance out the hype about FN Brownings, the official sidearm of the Finnish army is the FN Browning BDA model, and it's considered by the vast majority of finnish soldiers to be the worst handgun ever produced. Us peacekeepers are issued SIG Sauer P226's because the FN's can't be trusted.

 

So about the look of XM's. Anyone feel like talking about them? 8)

 

-Sale

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I bow before your superior knowledge.

 

 

while everyone is on the topic of the XMs, what is the XM25? it looks almost like the smg variant they showed on that chart with a thermal scope

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, The XM25! when that comes into service the US infantry will probably have the most fire power of any army world wide. How many in a standard US rifle squad? I think its 12 so I'll go from there. 2 FN Minimis (M249 SAW), 2 (X)M25s (with the [X]M104 computerized grenade sight as well) and the rest with M16/XM8 some with M203 or (X)M302 (an improved AG36). Quite a lot of fire power.

 

I wonder if/when we'll see an airsoft one.

 

In conclusion

XM8: looks not too bad. If a bit fish like.

AR15 series rifles: Good if not the best ever made (if the SAS use Diemaco [which, apparently has recently been purchased by Colt] made C7/8s then who am I to argue?)

Colt M1911: See AR15 rifles (scratch the part in brackets)(Canada makes these [well, high capacity copies anyway] too)

FN Browning Hi-Power: Yet again see AR15 rifles (hey, those crazy cannucks made these too!)

Canada: Stop stealing everyone elses small arms and make your own!

 

And now back to the very series business of discussing just how good airsoft guns look.

[Antagon]

Ah Sale, trying to argue with him should be a bannable offence. Because 100% of the time you'll be wrong.

 

I like the XM8 myself, hope they end up making a civillian version.

 

 

"AR15 series rifles: Good if not the best ever made"

 

But M16 = wurst gun evar!!!111 HK best!!! I love the AR15 myself

[wolfster]

even though theres 14 pages...ill just chim right in for the fun of it...i think it looks really really good, and is made by hk so its gotta perform.

 

Ill give u that it looks futuristic, but u have to remember wat the m16 looked like when it came out, it also looked futuristic and got panned for its looks. so give it time and people will come around

[CZFan]

Well don't forget that the XM technically should fix the ergonomic faults with the G36 (the stock for one is horrific, so is the selector) while still featuring the robust internals.

 

If the project ever makes it into the production stage. The way things are looking now, it will be at least another 5 years.

[InspGadgt]

Body count in Iraq is a poor argument and if anything demonstrates how much better the American military is. The ratio of US troop deaths to old iraqi/insurgent kills is many times higher on the kill side then on the deaths side.

 

Oh and my vote on the XM8 is it is a hideous looking gun.

[M1911A2 guy]

It's a grenade launching assault weapon type thingy

 

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl13-e.htm

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assault weapon type thingy. You, good sir night, are now one of my heros.

[Xaccers]

assault weapon type thingy. You, good sir night, are now one of my heros.

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Always aiming to please

[systema]

I don't like the looks of the XMs, other than the XM-177...

[unimatrix001]

Well don't forget that the XM technically should fix the ergonomic faults with the G36 (the stock for one is horrific, so is the selector) while still featuring the robust internals.

 

Hmmm I can't agree about the stock, the G36 stock is really comfortable for me. Especially when compared to AR15 stocks or other rattly sliding stocks. The only issue is, that the standard stock is a bit on the long side, even for a tall person. But the solution is easy, opt for the G36C stock when ordering the rifle .

 

The selector is also not unergonomic, the only fault is that it's nearly impossible to move the selector from fullauto back to save without moving your hand (moving the selector the other way works fine). I'm actually not sure whether or not this is different on the XM8. The position of the selector seems to be the same.

[Sale]

These the same SWAT operators who use a 5.56 rifle for CQB?

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Yes. What would be your choice then?

 

You know, I really thought about posting something about the XM177 models, as "an XM" makes me think of those first.

 

I like the idea of XM8's that you get a futuristic looking rifle without the bullpup feature. Still I like G36C more.

 

-Sale

[unimatrix001]

But the G36C is rather useless for military application

[Sale]

Well I was actually thinking more of airsofting. It's about time that we see a modern plastic assault rifle (like AUG and FA-MAS), with a conventional design, which is better suited for CQB.

 

Of course for a realsteel basic grunt rifle 10" is too little barrel length, but a small assault rifle is a perfect replacement for SMG's. And in airsoft it doesn't matter.

 

-Sale