Vietnam SF loadout

[screamin_weasel]

if all goes to plan, i should be getting a TM CAR-15 next month, the first gun i ever wanted

 

as it goes, if you have an uber-cool VN gun, you have to have an UBER UBER cool VN loadout to go with it.

 

i have been told by some good people in SNAFU that the CAR-15 was used by special forces, though not extensively (it sucked apparently). well mine wont suck, so i dont care about that.

 

im no geardo, and i dont know jackshit about individual fighting units, which is where the good people of this forum come to help.

 

questions:

 

1. from my brief research, it seems there were many different SF units in 'Nam. but i cant make heads nor tails of them, so which one is what im looking for (fighting wise - i dont want to re-create SF housebuilding unit or something ) also, i really want a unit i can find patches of, so i can adorn myself with them.

 

2. i have been informed that the loadout consists of pretty much just Tiger Stripes, black boots and some lighweight looking rig, and a boonie hat (as the basis - other random 'Nam cool stuff can be added later), as well as my gun. i dont think i will be buying a 1911 (if thats what they used), because quite frankly my DE is better.

 

3. FMJ guided me to a US site full of everything 'Nam, but i was looking at getting the Tiger Stripe BDU's from Flecktarn (cheaper than i thought). this is unless anybody can point me towards some weathered, used ones, which will look much better.

 

thats it for now, but no doubt as people (hopefully) answer, more will arise.

 

cheers

[Kurtz]

I think tiger stripe, jungle boots and Alice webbing system is the way to go, but you know that the original tiger stripe is different to the one flecktarn is selling. Y have the Rothco replica and must admit that it works better than the original one, at least in the european woodland.

 

Stuff like buttpack, the classic M16 magazine pouches and canteen are needed and useful

 

You can looking for the patches in ebay. They are pretty cheap.

 

An image says more than a thousand words.

 

http://www.complementosmilitares.com/unifo...iformeTiger.jpg

 

Saludos

[Pablo]

Who the devil wore ERDL then?

[Full Metal Jacket]

I think tiger stripe, jungle boots and Alice webbing system is the way to go, but you know that the original tiger stripe is different to the one flecktarn is selling. Y have the Rothco replica and must admit that it works better than the original one, at least in the european woodland.

 

Stuff like buttpack, the classic M16 magazine pouches and canteen are needed and useful 

 

You can looking for the patches in ebay. They are pretty cheap.

 

An image says more than a thousand words.

 

http://www.complementosmilitares.com/unifo...iformeTiger.jpg

 

Saludos

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They sell patches on mooremilitaria too

[screamin_weasel]

*drools*

 

superb pic dude.

 

i dont know the difference between Tigerstripe patterns, but i can see the colour differences between what you posted and the flecktarn kit. to be honest, the flecktarn colour looks more suited to UK woodland anyways, while re-taining the tiger stripe(ish) pattern.

 

would it be wrong to use the fleckie tigerstripe in my loadout ? surely i could get away with using it in the UK as a 'Nam SF loadout ? any links to the one you have ?

 

as for ALICE, that sort of terminology goes right over my head dude. is it a brand, or design i dont know. to me the one you posted looks like any other rig that i have seen on here. im a vest man up until this loadout, so rigs/harnesses/whatever are completely new to me.

 

as for the other stuff, yes i had banked on ebay, and also the site given to me by FMJ.

 

cheers dude

[Full Metal Jacket]

*drools*

 

superb pic dude.

 

i dont know the difference between Tigerstripe patterns, but i can see the colour differences between what you posted and the flecktarn kit. to be honest, the flecktarn colour looks more suited to UK woodland anyways, while re-taining the tiger stripe(ish) pattern.

 

would it be wrong to use the fleckie tigerstripe in my loadout ? surely i could get away with using it in the UK as a 'Nam SF loadout ? any links to the one you have ?

 

as for ALICE, that sort of terminology goes right over my head dude. is it a brand, or design i dont know. to me the one you posted looks like any other rig that i have seen on here. im a vest man up until this loadout, so rigs/harnesses/whatever are completely new to me.

 

as for the other stuff, yes i had banked on ebay, and also the site given to me by FMJ.

 

cheers dude

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Evil metal things which can be hard to fasten

 

[screamin_weasel]

good god what the *fruitcage* is that

[Pablo]

They're the clips used to fasten pouches to the webbing belt. They're a damn site more secure than the 58 pattern webbing, I know that!

[Maple-Leaf]

I'd think it would be pretty easy actually to dig up the kind of info you need to make your decision. For a start, Osprey have several good reference books on the US Army Special Forces:

US Army Special Forces 1952–84 (Elite 4)

Special Forces Camps in Vietnam 1961–70 (Fortress 33)

Green Beret in Vietnam 1957–73 (Warrior 28) <maybe the best one>

 

As for Tiger Stripes - you want to get authentic repros of the Tiger Stripe Products variety (called "Advisor Pattern") which you can buy from Soldier of Fortune. Look under "Vietnam".

 

 

P.S. As for web gear - M56 pattern was more common than ALICE; especially among the old hands. I even used the M56 H-shaped shoulder straps rather than the ALICE Y-shaped ones in the 80's becuase I found them much more comfortable and load stabilising.

[screamin_weasel]

cheers dude.

 

so

 

on that site are 2 different tiger stripe patterns - the one you posted, and the other, darker one.

 

the darker one says in the description it was used by SF, yet in the lighter one you posted it doesn't.

 

am i right in thinking the darker one is a 'modern take' on tigerstripe, and the lighter one you suggested is the correct, historically accurate one ?

 

to be honest i like the look of the darker one more, and as i said, it will be more suitable to UK woodland, while still hopefully passing as Nam SF. but, both the darker and lighter one you posted are a bit mroe than i was hoping to pay (or am i hoping in vain ? i saw the fleckie ones at 18 quid and got my hopes up)

 

i still dont know exactly what pattern was used by the troops in Nam. im now assuming it was what JKT1 posted

[Maple-Leaf]

I don't think that there was one authentic type. This one is a repro of the American-made TigerStripe uniforms that were used by a lot of the American units in Vietnam during the latter part of the war. So it would be correct if you're going for that type of look.

 

The one I posted before is a repro of the Vietnamese-made type that was worn by Vietnamese units, and also adopted by their American advisors. So it would also be correct, if you're going for that type of look.

 

The dark coloured poly-cotton ones in BDU-style sold by Flecktarn and others are not authentic at all. I think they're a copy of a 1970s-1980s Thai pattern.

 

If you want to be really authentic about your look, I'd suggest you have a look at the Osprey books - and there's also a big reference book from Schiffer that is only about Tiger Stripe! - and also contact some Vietnam re-enactor groups to get their input.

 

P.S. Did a Google and found a couple of other useful sources for ya:

http://www.incountry.ca/icforums/viewtopic...86936e997b4d5c8

 

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/Main/Links.htm

[screamin_weasel]

ahhh, i see. you made it all clear dude, cheers.

 

right then. the flecktarn oen sucks balls, official.

 

i think i am going to go for the darker one, as not only is it real, i like it more, and it is better suited to my game site. now to find it at not such an extortionate price.

 

im gonna go down the library later, see what i can dig up SF wise, its cheaper than buying a book (yes money is a big deal about this loadout, incasae you hadn't realised)

 

i think my lan of action is this - find somewhere that has some of the US tigerstripe pattern for relatively good value, and get some. then, once my BDU's are sorted, i will look into the webbing and other stuff.

 

i took a quick look at the M56 webbing on SoF, but to be honest i am none the wiser about it. would i buy a 'harness', then attatch whatever pouches i want to the harness? or are the harnesses they have listed not even relevant ?

 

i will probably contact some re-enactment groups to see if i can source some cheaper stuff, or hard to find stuff (i hope they dont look down on me )

sorry to keep picking your brain dude, your info is MUCHO helpful.

[Maple-Leaf]

i took a quick look at the M56 webbing on SoF, but to be honest i am none the wiser about it. would i buy a 'harness', then attatch whatever pouches i want to the harness? or are the harnesses they have listed not even relevant ?

 

Basic load-out would be H-harness, pistol belt, 2 ammo pouches, 2 quart canteens and pouches, butt pack, compass/first aid pouch.

 

If you wanna go real high-speed, low drag then you'd add 2 more ammo pouches, another compass/first aid pouch, a machete, and 2 more canteens (it was HOT in the jungle).

[Pablo]

Check out www.fngsupplies.com, I got most of my lads gear from ebay, but I've just put an order in with these guys for some bits and pieces.

 

Yep, sad to say my lad is not FUNDY any more.

[screamin_weasel]

thanks again dude, you have NO IDEA how helpful you are being. those other sites you edited in are top notch. + 1 to you

 

correct me if im wrong, but i cannot find an H-harness on SoF ?

 

as for the specific load out, i dont know if i want to carry 4 canteens lol. im really going for the look rather than the exact detail of how many pouches they carried. i intended on making the rig up to my own needs, but using the M56 stuff, thus retaining the basic look of the era, but accomadating what i need.

 

so now i have the following list :

 

1. US version Tigerstripe BDU's and Boonie

2. M56 webbing - h-harness, pistol belt, butt pack, enough mag pouches for 8 VN mags (4 - 2 in each ?), canteen with cover, compass pouch.

3. i have some boots.

4. some SF patches/nametags ( i may end up picking some random SF patches)

 

so thats the basic kit, or what i see as enough to get me the 'look' of Nam SF. as i said, after i have hopefully seen some more research from books, i will get little things that make the kit a bit different and original.

 

i assume anything with 'M56' before it will all fit together with no problems ?

[Maple-Leaf]

i assume anything with 'M56' before it will all fit together with no problems ?

 

Yup, that was the idea. The "H-harness" is officially called "M56 suspenders" - look under Vietnam, webbing, M56. Cheers!

[Lance Jackass]

Im not sure how realistic you want to be. Don't tell havoc i said this...

 

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/Main/Sitemap.htm

 

That site will tell you everything.

 

A basic loaout would be:

 

British army OG shirt - £3?

British army lightweight trousers - £8?

Boonie hat in OG or a 'Nam helmet - £30

M56 webbing - £40+ ?

 

The real stuff:

 

Ive seen us cav guys carrying CAr 15s wearing the green kit, not tiger stripe. So:

 

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/Patches/1stcav.gif These shoulder patches

 

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/USarmy/JungleUnif.htm

OG jungle shirt and trousers

 

http://www.thevietnam-database.co.uk/USarmy/M56webbing.htm

M56 webbing, or 64....

 

2x ammo pouches, belt, "suspenders" ( ) buttpack, many waterbottles, ammo bandolier etc...

 

Jungle boots

 

And a few other things. I'm pretty sure that 1st cav would have worn ogs untill a point and used the Car15, which is a nice little weapon Still on sale at my local shop if anyone cares...

[screamin_weasel]

suspenders? thats what i thought, but wasn't sur. i didn't want to buy them and findout they only hel dmy trousers up, and not actually held anything on them.

 

right, so i think im just about sorted for a kit list now.

 

my final question is this : the 'M56 ammo pouch used' (8 quid). how many mags will it hold ? i will be using the VN style mags.

 

again, thanks a bunch for your info, i am now set to spend lots more money than i intended, but i will look the mutts. perhaps a SNAFU call-up is waiting

[Pablo]

At least 2 mags, possibly 3.

[Full Metal Jacket]

It takes 3 vn style mags

[screamin_weasel]

cool. i intend on having at least 6 VN mid-caps, so i was hoping they would hold at least 2 mags each

[Full Metal Jacket]

mooremilitaria has a "basic fieldgear" package, add a magpouch and your set

[Boba_Fett]

An alternative to the 56 system is a Chicom Chestrig combined with your tiger stripe as your aim is a Special Forces Load Out. http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/graphics/olive/odtcr1nx500a.jpg

 

Question is what direction of VN SF you are going to. Green Berrets and Army special forces very often wore the 56 webbing. Some of them especially the LRRP wore a wide combination of stuff.

 

Chicom Chestrig is best to use with 30rd mags...20rd will "drown"

 

As JKT 1 mentioned it is hot down there so the minimum of canteens is two sometimes the load is up to 3 or 4; 2 worn in cantine covers at the belt rest hooked up to the back pack or webbing.

 

About the ERDL-Question: ERDL arrived very late in country and was mostly used by remaining Marine combat units. This time there were nearly no ealry CAR15 left and the most used carbines were XM177 E1 and E2.

[Lance Jackass]

You know when you've been SNAFU'ed. I think the M56s take 3, could be 2 though.

 

Personally i would just keep to the basics. You can look like a US special forces guy from 'nam without using the same toilet paper as them and still get into SNAFU.

[Full Metal Jacket]

You know when you've been SNAFU'ed. I think the M56s take 3, could be 2 though.

 

Personally i would just keep to the basics. You can look like a US special forces guy from 'nam without using the same toilet paper as them and still get into SNAFU.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

S_W : if it was up to LJ he'd let you in as a us spec-ops from 'nam with DPM...