screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 wow loads more info from you guys cheers dudes. well these "MACV-SOG" dudes seem to be the rudest guys out there, so i think they are the patches im gonna be picking up. i agree, its the patches that make all the difference to the loadout. wow. this thread is a GOLDMINE for anybody wanting a 'Nam laodout. Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 SW, instead of buying your Tiger Stripe BDU's seperate, and paying more money - http://www.campingandcamo.co.uk/ishop/975/shopscr344.html Link to post Share on other sites
Boba_Fett Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Advisor Cut isn´t BDU style Light-Weight Jacket 4 pocket design with button flaps Adjustable cuff tabs Concealed buttons <= wrong! Reinforced elbows <= wrong! Adjustable Waist Tabs Polyester/Cotton fabric <= Jesus..... Sizes: S-XXL Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 wow loads more info from you guys cheers dudes. well these "MACV-SOG" dudes seem to be the rudest guys out there, so i think they are the patches im gonna be picking up. i agree, its the patches that make all the difference to the loadout. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, SOG was in the sh!t, so to speak, but that's just it - they wore no insignia, unit identification, rank, or dog tags while on operations. Their uniforms were completely sterile. Also, the standard US issue webgear wasn't used by SOG teams. Because they needed to remain deniable, they often wore Chicom (Chinese-Communist) chest rigs, NVA uniforms and Pith helmets - anything that would give them the edge over the NVA because they were literally in their backyard along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Typically, they used the BAR ammo belt because it has six huge pouches that allow for 4-5 standard M16 magazines per pouch and because it was untraceable. This is a BAR belt, but disregard the "US" markings. The H-harness will fit up to this belt and you don't need ALICE clips or extra ammo pouches. The only problem is that they are rather expensive, but I got mine from eBay for $20. Also, instead of using ALICE clips, I used zip-ties and it worked 110% better. Link to post Share on other sites
screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 the kit that Misfit linked to - would i not be able to use that, and still get away with having a convincing loadout ? only it is cheaper, even than ordering in from the US ( the TS in the UK are around 80 quid a set at best ) im not too bothered about concelaed buttons and re-inforced elbows, but why is there such a reaction to the cotton/polyester fabric ? Easy - now im not sure. you say the best SF unit didnt have patches, which is what i need to make the kit look good. so really i need to pick a unit that did wear patches, and oens that look good. Link to post Share on other sites
Boba_Fett Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 im not too bothered about concelaed buttons and re-inforced elbows, but why is there such a reaction to the cotton/polyester fabric ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That´s the question you have to answer for yourself It´s up to you how close to the original you want get. Having a brand new suit it is no problem changing the buttons from covered to open and it is no problem sewing the breast pockets to the upper arms. Problem with most of the synthethic repros is their shiny look and mostly used darker pattern I have a JWD pattern Tiger Stripe for my VN load out and my team is wearing european standard tiger stripe by MilTec. So it was easy comparing both types. MilTec is the better choice for playing in Europe but it is not the real style I added a picture where you can see the different versions: On the right side the JWD Tiger Stripe. All the others are different versions of the "european" Tiger Stripe. Different productions, different material (less od more synthetics) and different ages. As mentioned befor very good camo within the Euopean AS-area but "different" Link to post Share on other sites
screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 hhmmmm that is quite different. the one im thinking of getting from MM is JWD. the one from campingandcammo is the darker version. both are the same price. now im really confused. which do YOU think works best in the UK/european woodland (i dont know where you are) ? would the cotton/polyester darker one from CandC withstand skirmishing, or is the material not up to it ? ok. so for patches, i like the look of the following, if they dont 'go together' can somebody point me in the right direction please ? right chest - my name in black and yellow patch left chest - black and yellow MIKE FORCE patch left arm - Ranger Tab above which of the below patches ? are the para wings essential ? Link to post Share on other sites
sevenzero Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Yes, SOG was in the sh!t, so to speak, but that's just it - they wore no insignia, unit identification, rank, or dog tags while on operations. Their uniforms were completely sterile. Also, the standard US issue webgear wasn't used by SOG teams. Because they needed to remain deniable, they often wore Chicom (Chinese-Communist) chest rigs, NVA uniforms and Pith helmets - anything that would give them the edge over the NVA because they were literally in their backyard along the Ho Chi Minh Trail. Typically, they used the BAR ammo belt because it has six huge pouches that allow for 4-5 standard M16 magazines per pouch and because it was untraceable. This is a BAR belt, but disregard the "US" markings. The H-harness will fit up to this belt and you don't need ALICE clips or extra ammo pouches. The only problem is that they are rather expensive, but I got mine from eBay for $20. Also, instead of using ALICE clips, I used zip-ties and it worked 110% better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ive been wondering what kind of pouch that is, now i know, thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Boba_Fett Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 @ screamin_weasel Due to regulations and the german law we are playing in the rest of western Europe. Should be simillar to your vegetation Depends on the exact area you are playing. JWD is a very good pattern but in autumn and the other "wet" times of the year I prefer the darker tiger stripe. And of course its warmer than the 100% cotton tropical ripstop But to meet your reanecting purposes you need the JWD. My tip: Get both ... I did Cheap version of the MilTec is 40 to 50 Euro and after washed twice it gets less shiny Link to post Share on other sites
Jimisin73 Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Re: Jump Wings Not essential, but they do add to the whole look if you are going for that "patched up" look. BTW - Correction take re: Mike Force and the CIA...I was thinking of some of the stuff that SEAL Advisors did in conjunction with the Phoenix Program...they also ran Platoon to Company sized units of indigenous personel...usually Nungs. Keep in mind that the MF loadout I described was used by advisors, so they wore lots of badges and patches, as much to impress the local tribal leaders, as for any other reason. We do a ton of overnight and weekend ops here in my neck of the woods, so if I were doing this loadout I'd have two shirts...One Sterile for on the field, and one all "patched up" for at the campsite . Also for footwear you want old style jungle boots or HO CHi Minh Sandles (Easily made from Old Tire Tread and Rubber Innrtube bits). Tropical Jungle Boots Sandals Re: The Patches Of the ones you showed, only the MIKE FORCE (Black with skull and crossed bones) would go with the name tapes you plan on using Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Screamin_Weasel, here's some more info on the patches you posted above: This is the correct look of the MACV-SOG pocket patch. There are many different types of color combos, but this is the one they wore. The creator of this patch has been lost in the time of history and remains unknown, but this patch was never "officially" issued to MACV-SOG teams - they simply adopted it to stand out from the crowd. This patch was worn only on the left breast pocket of the fatigue blouse. Now, this is the standard Special Forces insignia issued to ALL SF units, even to this day, however today's SF units wear all the tabs (Special Forces, Ranger, Airborne). There were subdued versions of all insignia, so the colors wouldn't stand out while in the bush. In Vietnam, only the Airborne tab was worn over the shield insignia, like this: This is the 5th Special Forces beret flash that is only worn on the Green Beret. Now, in MACV-SOG, there were three C&C compounds: Command and Control North (CCN) operated out of Da Nang and this was their patch: Command and Control Central (CCC) operated in the Central Highlands out of Kontum, South Vietnam and this was their patch: Command and Control South (CCS) operated out of Ban Me Thout and this was theirs: This patch is not affiliated with MACV-SOG. This patch was issued to Mike Force members, which was trained and operated by the 5th SFG, not SOG. Now, historically, SOG teams did run missions inside South Vietnam, called "locals" and they may have worn insignia on their uniforms, but when they went over the fence into Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and North Vietnam, they did not. This is a photo of two of SOG's most accomplished One-Zeros (recon team leader numerical designation 1-0). On the left is S.Sgt Ed Wolcoff of RT New York and beside him is legendary SOG One-Zero Franklin Doug Miller, Medal of Honor recipient. This is what they wore while on the compound. Note the slanted pockets of the BDUs and their insignia placement. Now, in the pic that Boba_Fett posted, the guy on the far right is wearing the original Vietnam tiger stripe pattern. Be careful when buying tiger stripes because there are a lot of variations. This is the original tiger stripe pattern intended for Vietnam. Hope this helps some. Link to post Share on other sites
screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 boba fett - im going to get the lighter version JWD. i cant afford 2 different sets unfortunately jimisin73 - i saw those boots, and to be honest thougth they looked like they would fall apart. if they stand up to skirmishing i will get a pair though - they look cool. easy company- right. i think im getting closer to the final patch solution now. right chest - name in black and green (optional para wing above) left chest - US ARMY in black and green (optional para wing above) left arm - SF patch with 'Airborne' tab above so where would the CCN patch go, or is it instead of the SF patch ? would i look like a tit if i had all these patches on (in colour) while i was skirmishing ? im not going for 100% correct 're-enactment imression', but i dont want to look like a nobhead either. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Set your blouse up like this: - Left sleeve: Airborne SF patch - Left breast pocket: MACV-SOG pocket patch (if you're immitating SOG) - US Army tape above right breast pocket. - Name tape above left breast pocket. Then, if you want, but your parachute qualification badge above your name tape, then the combat infantryman badge (CIB) above that. You do not want all the C&C patches and the MACV-SOG patch on your blouse - that is in no way, shape, or form historically accurate. If you do use the SOG patch, just use the general pocket patch, don't use the C&C patches. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 The Car 15 that marui makes looks like a squashed down M16A1. Wheras their xm177 looks like the "CAR 15" you showed earlier. So what is the MArui CAR 15 a replica of? Link to post Share on other sites
Full Metal Jacket Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 The Car 15 that marui makes looks like a squashed down M16A1. Wheras their xm177 looks like the "CAR 15" you showed earlier. So what is the MArui CAR 15 a replica of? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The first one called CAR-15 The XM177 is just a improved version. The first CAR-15 had a very hard kick because of the flashhider/suppressor I think. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 The TM CAR 15 and the real life CAR 15 have totally different grips though? Link to post Share on other sites
Full Metal Jacket Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Realsteel CAR 15 It's like the first M16.. They just called it AR-15, the CAR-15 is just the first model of Carbine AR-15's therefore "CAR 15", whereas the XM177 is like the M16A1 and XM16E1 are to the AR-15. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 http://www.world.guns.ru/assault/as50-e.htm Oh... so the Xms were later versions of the CAR 15? Link to post Share on other sites
Boba_Fett Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Nearly all M16 carbines were called CAR15. The one TM makes must be one of the rare first versions of this weapon. Most used version in country was the XM177-E1 but many claimed it to be a very bad weapon just good enough for cool pictures... Link to post Share on other sites
Full Metal Jacket Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Yes. Link to post Share on other sites
screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 and cool loadouts easy company - my mind is now at rest at which patches to get. superb. well i think thats pretty much teh whole kit sorted out now then CAR-15 M-79 launcher Tigerstripe BDU's (JWD) Tigerstripe Boonie M67 Suspender M56 pistol belt M56 ammo pouches M56 compass pouch M56 butt pack M56 canteen M16 canvas sling Name and US ARMY tape green /black SF patch with airborne tab above MACV-SOG pocket patch and maybe optional para wing / CIB badge jungle boots superb guys. you have all been a MASSIVE help to me. i hope your impressed when i eventually get all the kit together now i need to lose some weight so i can run about topless with just a bullet belt on, 'Nam stylee Link to post Share on other sites
Full Metal Jacket Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Please, please, pleeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaase don't take pictures of yourself topless oh and for future reference "green/black" is called subdued Link to post Share on other sites
screamin_weasel Posted November 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 stfu GREEN / BLACK Link to post Share on other sites
Full Metal Jacket Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 SUBDUED!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Boba_Fett Posted November 19, 2005 Report Share Posted November 19, 2005 Jup...subway...äh...subdued...got to get something to eat Link to post Share on other sites
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