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I think its a shame that a forum I used to enjoy reading has been populated by a bunch of Jeremy Clarkson-Alan Partridge hybrids.

Both very funny men, thank you for that.

 

Fact is, huge crowds of people were destroying massive amounts of property and it takes more than a line of police with plastic shields to deal with mobs like that. If CS was used, and did breeze over someone who wasn't directly smashing in shop windows and setting fires, then by the time it had reached them it's going to be so diluted that in any wide open space the worst it's going to cause is a bit of a sting and a runny nose, hardly anything comparable to some guy getting physically rammed to the floor is it? In the particular case of Mr Tomlinson, no he certainly didn't deserve it, and to be honest I don't appreciate the implication that I wish death upon any innocent passer-by; my job right now involves a very direct contribution to the UK's Sea King search and rescue force, what I do every day goes a long way towards saving lives, so I suggest you pipe down before you make accusations like that next time.

Edited by CKinnerley

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OK, so now a word from a country with free higher education for you guys.

There are students and students. Some focus on drinking and drop out for various reasons, only to return to paid studies a couple years later. Some drop out and don't even bother returning. Finally, some work their asses off for five years, just to find out that you only need a degree in a couple of specific subjects like engineering, law or economy and the rest, like marketing or *suitcase* like that, are pretty much useless and work experience is preferred instead.

 

Of course some employers demand "any degree" just to filter out the dumbest candidates, but that's not what higher education is for, is it?

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I must say, that there wasn't actually that many people causing criminal damamge to the conversative building (That I could see from the live news feed, though I must admit to not watcing it after 4pm). At one point a couple of yobs (I don't think they where students who did the damage but poeple just looking to vandalise, thats opinion not fact by the way. Though some students did appear to "egg them on") where in side trying to smash a large sheet of toughed glass, if it would have fell on them, it could have killed them. If I vote for a party that then go back on what they said they would do, if they got in power, I would be ###### off to. Though peaceful protests are far more effect and also help shed some light on to your cause, not high light you/them as a bunch of yobs.

Edited by Habakure

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Why do people continue to be surprised when politicians are revealed to be liars? The clue is in the name, people.

 

If you feel let down or betrayed by a politician or political party, you have only one person to blame - yourself, for being dumb enough to actually believe anything that a politician said in the first place!

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What narks me about the student protests is that the ones doing the rioting probably weren't even students. I gave up on NUS demos when I was at uni as they just seemed to get hijacked by the communist hippies socialist worker party who did all the trouble making

 

Actually having had to be involved in student politics to get my airsoft society off the ground two years back I've got to say that at least half of the NUS ARE the communist hippies socialist worker party *rickrolls*. The president of the NUS was lying through his teeth last night; he knew something like this was going to happen, we couldn't have a single bloody half hour meeting without some *beep* going off on a 'fight the power' tangent, and the NUS delegate was the worst of the bunch.

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Oh I'm never surprised when a politician is proven to have lied. I was just stating the obvious (Regarding why the students went ap *suitcase* and thought braking glass might help their plight), as thats what this rant thread is about. You tell a story then at the end explain why your ###### off.

 

I liked how some one put "*fruitcage* them" on the wall in blue spray paint and also how the one's doing the damage covered their faces, yeah you rebel you. If your going to protest, at least have the balls to show your face or it defeats the point.

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i only saw some footage of it all today, and what really gripped my *suitcase* was the fire extinguisher being dropped of the roof of the building, and landing about 8 inches away from a group of coppers/TSG, or whoever they were

 

its one thing smashing windows (which i also dont agree with), but that was some deliberate, malicious *suitcase*, aimed at killing or seriously injuring someone, under the guise of 'protesting'. really, really not on.

 

the police have rightly stated that if identified, the person who did it can be tried for attempted murder...

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Both very funny men, thank you for that.

 

Fact is, huge crowds of people were destroying massive amounts of property and it takes more than a line of police with plastic shields to deal with mobs like that. If CS was used, and did breeze over someone who wasn't directly smashing in shop windows and setting fires, then by the time it had reached them it's going to be so diluted that in any wide open space the worst it's going to cause is a bit of a sting and a runny nose, hardly anything comparable to some guy getting physically rammed to the floor is it? In the particular case of Mr Tomlinson, no he certainly didn't deserve it, and to be honest I don't appreciate the implication that I wish death upon any innocent passer-by; my job right now involves a very direct contribution to the UK's Sea King search and rescue force, what I do every day goes a long way towards saving lives, so I suggest you pipe down before you make accusations like that next time.

 

The reason I used the example of Mr Tomlinson is because his death was a result of excessive force, and I believe that using CS gas in such a situation would be excessive force. You can say that by the time the gas spreads it would have been diluted, but I think you're working on a false assumption that anybody in the vicinity is complicit in the crime, which given the chaotic nature of protests is unlikely.

 

Secondly, if you don't want implications being made about your wish or lack thereof of death or injury to passers by, its probably not write stuff like this;

 

"When they're all crying on the floor feeling like they're suffocating with every patch of exposed skin burning and nose and eyes streaming like taps, then maybe they'd think twice, but I'm sure there's some regulation/publication/set of orders that prevents any discomfort being caused to the poor darlings."

 

It may be an unwelcome side effect from a text based medium, but to be honest that sounds pretty sadistic.

 

As stupid as those particular bunch of protesters were - given the track record I'd rather have damaged property then lives put at risk.

 

In regards to CS gas;

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/5106600.stm

"Widow's payout after CS gas death"

 

http://www.veritagiustizia.it/docs/gas_cs/CS_Effects_Waco.pdf - "Possible lethal effects of CS tear gas on Branch Davidians during the FBI raid on the Mount Carmel compound near Waco, Texas"

 

http://inquest.gn.apc.org/pdf/Ibrahima%20Sey%20report.pdf - Ibrahima Sey - died of a heart attack after being sprayed with CS gas.

Edited by Skarclaw

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I didn't see the fire extinguisher being dropped, glad I didn't as I would have screamed "d*ckheads!" at the tele. Hope they catch the person responsible, it will make poeple think twice about doing something as dumb as that, ever again.

 

New rant, I really should hide the laptop when I go out drinking. Always end up buying something that I really shouldn't have, though I always end up keeping it but just feel guilty. Maybe the guilt will be squashed if I order something for my better half, as well?

 

Edit:- Anyone else having problems with the swear filter today, or is it something I am doing wrong?

Edited by Habakure

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channel 4 news was making a big deal about it being dropped, i just caught it as i got in tonight.

 

edit: swear filter works for me, but it must be the first time ive used it for a while, so wont really notice if its playing up :)

Edited by shmook

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I'm not saying that anyone in the vicinity is involved in smashing up shops, not at all, my point was that if you throw a grenade of the stuff directly at the ones committing the crimes, then anyone who's more than a few metres away will barely suffer any ill effects, as well has having plenty of opportunity to get out of the area before it diffuses to where they are. The reason it sounded sadistic was because it was meant to, I don't wish any suffering upon any peaceful protester, and I never would, but I believe idiots who do stuff like destroy businesses, invade and wreck buildings, set fires in public places and commit other potentially lethal crimes (fire extinguisher being dropped, case in point) need to be controlled as quickly and effectively as possible, that's why things like water cannons and rubber slugs exist. Is there a risk with any non-lethal system that it might be lethal? Sadly yes, but the sorts of crimes some of these 'protesters' were getting involved in warranted the use of stronger methods and unfortunately there's an inherent risk there, but it takes more than 1 police officer to control an angry person resisting arrest using only their bare hands, and the police were hugely out-numbered.

 

My 'sadism' is borne out of the fact that I've been put in to a very small, closed room filled with multiple CS tablets and made to breathe it for a good few minutes (i.e. the effect was many many times more concentrated than you'd get in the open air) and you know what? I was just fine afterwards, it was unpleasant, it hurt, it felt bloody horrible, but after about 10 minutes of recovering in the fresh air then I was right as rain, and so where the hundred other recruits I saw go through the same process that day. I quite agree that if some measure could be developed that had a similar effect but was 100% safe to every person that would, of course, be far better. But, we don't have such a thing right now, and unfortunately certain people do have intolerances and allergies to certain chemicals and compounds, but it's clear the benefits of usage out-weigh the negatives or these things would be banned already. It's hardly the government being 'evil' or not caring, you're never more than about 20m from a health & safety poster these days.

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"non lethal" is a ridiculous phrase and shouldn't be used. Another case in point is tasers, in my opinion only firearm officers should carry them, but thats another matter.

 

I don't think that using CS gas in those circumstances would be appropriate what so ever. I've demonstrated cases where its end awfully, and you won't have to look far to see the disastrous failings that the police have when handling protests. CS gas would only complicate matters. Call me a health saftey nazi or whatever but I am highly cynical of the met police's ability to handle this sort of stuff safely.

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Well that'll be the fault of some over-paid paper pusher somewhere who's never been 'on the front line' and yet is the one in charge of deciding what equipment and training the police gets. Military personnel in conflict zones accidentally kill civilians sometimes, it's a tragic fact, but did John Smith from Bristol join the army to go out and do such a thing? Course not, the same way Steve Jones from Cambridge didn't become a pilot in the royal air force to go and drop a 1000lb'er on an afghan hospital; yet it happens, the individual man in uniform does his very best, but there's only so much you can do when you've not got the right training, supplies or backup from the organisation above you. Level the blame where it needs to be levelled, not at the guys on the tiny salaries doing the proper hard work.

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"non lethal" is a ridiculous phrase and shouldn't be used. Another case in point is tasers, in my opinion only firearm officers should carry them, but thats another matter.

...

 

A friend of mine was zapped when an arresting officer couldn't get his arm to bend back at the angle he wanted (I forget the details but it's because he has some kind of joint repair/implant and lost his range of motion). When it didn't work, he tried several more jolts over my friend's protests and attempts to explain his disability. The best part was the added charge of resisting arrest and the officer's claim that the taser must have been faulty since they never did get those cuffs on right.

 

My gripe is with peace officers using a Taser as a magical remote control to make perps behave (which leads to this kind of thing), and the risk to those unlucky people who cannot survive a shock.

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Jesus wept. Life doesnt owe you anything!! Go to an ex poly, get a humanities desmond, then enter the real world and pay off your loans when you get a decent job. That's what I did. If everyone feels that they are owed a degree then surely having one becomes watered down. I didn't get a grant, I held down a job and joined the TA and still got a qualification. Stop whining, grow up and enjoy the students union without smashing things up. Cunch of bunts.

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I hate the fact that the wife can't take the first parking space at the supermarket. We have to cruise round like a curb crawler looking for a tom until we find a space that's a7.5 seconds shorter walk to the store...meh :blink:

 

Oh and re my previous rant, thats what 4 x 15 hour days on the bounce does to you...sorry if it caused offence.

Edited by Red5

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A friend of mine was zapped when an arresting officer couldn't get his arm to bend back at the angle he wanted (I forget the details but it's because he has some kind of joint repair/implant and lost his range of motion). When it didn't work, he tried several more jolts over my friend's protests and attempts to explain his disability. The best part was the added charge of resisting arrest and the officer's claim that the taser must have been faulty since they never did get those cuffs on right.

 

My gripe is with peace officers using a Taser as a magical remote control to make perps behave (which leads to this kind of thing), and the risk to those unlucky people who cannot survive a shock.

 

Surely that's grounds for a lawsuit over excessive force and general idiocy?

 

Also just looked at the link, bloody hell.

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Virgin Media! I would never recommend them to anybody. I have had to send a letter of complaint because of how inconsistent our connection is (0.9/20mb). To add to insult yesterday I received the bill which included a £5 payment handling fee and £1.50 for paper bills. When the rep came to the door I set up a standing order and I was never told that there was a charge for having a bill on paper.

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I always say to poeple, never sign anything until you have read the small print. And to always read your bills. Why? If they give you notification about a change in your billing and you don't act, its your own fault. Unless of course you can prove you where never notified of the change!

 

New rant. My army R85 has stopped working. No noise from the motor or gears or anything. Battery works fine, same as charger. All the wirings fine, as are the connectors. I am tempted to chuck it in the lake.

Edited by Habakure

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Could be a jammed gear. My G3 SBS has suffered a similar fate. I ought to get around to opening it up and finding out what the issue is. Also, check the fuse (if you have one) - I know it's a bit obvious, but sometimes the simple things get overlooked.

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Tried a new fuse, just now (As the wife watches ugly betty, how can anyone find that entertaining? Thats a new rant.) and still no joy, looks like it could be a jammed gear <_<

 

Might be lazy and send it off to get fixed ;)

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