david3558 Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I have found this in Airsoft Canada, compiled by ERT about a year ago: Ok, I'm buying an ICS M4, and I wanted to research it as much as possible. There's tons of information on both airsoftplayers.com and filairsoft.com and it's almost overwhelming. There's a frickin 21 page thread on filairsoft on this. So, I condensed all the useful information that I could find into this one thread so nobody else will have to go through the pain of hunting all this up. This IS NOT MY MATERIAL, but is rather adapted from the experiences of actual ICS M4 owners across the world. I hope it helps some of you ICS owners out. ICS Innovations: - De-cocking lever incorporated on the forward-assist button - De-cocking is not possible using an ultra or infinite gear because the swing-arm inside the lower gearbox hits the spur gear - Metal receiver is nicely finished, laser etched markings of Olympic arms - Pipe stock is different in design, totally different than Marui, even the way it's bolted - Barrel wobble is non-existent. Totally re-designed from the collar ring to the front barrel - Internal wiring is neater, with small conduit nicely done towards front of gun - High capacity magazine - More robust gears, standard ratio - The small screw locking the mag release has been changed for the better. - De-cocking feature is quite useful, but is not possible if you use ultra or infinite gears. - Just chronoed the barrel with and without the o-ring in front of the hop assembly. FPS went up with that o-ring! ICS got something right! - Now for the fun part; I had installed an old polycarbonate piston head which separated from the piston after a few shots. Had this been another Marui AEG I would have just put it back in its gun bag and pick up another AEG - imagine having to take of the ret. stock, motor plate, motor, pistol grip, mag catch, hop-up thingy, etc, etc. As this was an ICS M4, I opened the receiver, pull out the upper gearbox, took out six screws, and presto, installed a brand new Prometheus piston head, and had the AEG firing away...all in less than 10 minutes, and at a leisurely pace too. Receiver: - Metal receiver is longer than your regular Marui receiver to accommodate the swing-up upper receiver Pistol Grip: - Pistol grip is more durable than Marui, more motor space inside; wiring is straightforward, better designed motor plate - Don't replace the stock pistol grip with Guarder reinforced grips. The angle of the motor will not be aligned properly and it will eventually ruin your bevel gear. - ICS pistol grip is different size than the Marui pistol grip. Its thinner, I think to make it more realistic than the Marui ones. Even the Marui motor plate does not fit on the ICS pistol grip. Motor: -ICS motor may be louder than a TM motor out of the box. This is due to the fact that the pinion gear is longer on the ICS motor than on the TM motor. It can often be changed back to a normal volume by adjusting the motor height. -If you are buying an EG1000 or other aftermarket motor for the ICS gun, it is suggested that you swap pinion gears so that the new motor has the ICS pinion on it. This is mainly due to the fact that the ICS one is longer than most out there and it's made that way for a reason. A shorter gear may not mesh as completely with the mechbox gears and result in a stripped gear over time. Gearbox: - Gearbox is a 2-piece design exclusively made and designed by ICS similar in material to Marui - Upper gearbox is judging from the reinforcements on the front part, looks more durable than a version 3 gearbox - Internal dimension where the spring and pistons rest are the same, but inner dimensions lengthwise is about a millimeter shorter -The most important part of the gearbox (front part where cylinder head rests) has been reinforced like a version 3 box, but a bit thicker. - Interface integrity of the sector gear and piston gear is excellent and did not present any problem due to the very tight tolerances on the upper receiver-upper gearbox and the lower gearbox - The piston rails are 'lumpy' in some areas and have to be finely sanded to have better piston sliding. - It was a breeze upgrading the spring, piston head, and cylinder with the new gearbox design. http://www.megasphere.net/mark/photo.php?f...s/11%281%29.jpg Gearbox Screw Problem/Fix: OLD: - The lower gearbox uses 3 screws 2 X 3.0 mm 16 and 1 X 3.0 mm 10. The short screw (3 mm X 10) is not long enough to go through all the threads in the gearbox. Therefore when the gearbox has stress either by upgrading fps or using automatic mode it tends to pull out the threads thus stripping the threads and causing separation at the rear of the gearbox. This could lead to more serious failure as gear stripping and total gearbox failure. Fortunately for me I didn’t have total failure. According to the technician ICS is aware of this failure issue. A good fix and recommended upgrade for ICS CAR-97 M4 owners is to go to your local hobby shop and purchase 3mm X 16 fillister screws (used in RC cars) and cut down the screw so the entire screw goes through the hole located at the top rear of the gearbox. Also allow a bit to come out through the hole to allow you to thread a nut on. Also use locktite blue to further strengthen the threads and nut. This will prevent gearbox failure at the gearbox's weakest point. As stated before ICS is aware of this issue and they are taking steps to prevent this in future releases but doing the above. NEW: -That problem only existed in the original run of the gun (known as version 1) which was not available in Canada. This is not a problem for any Canadian owners and only existed in guns sold elsewhere in the world. It is now fixed and no guns being produced by ICS should have this problem. http://www.megasphere.net/mark/photo.php?f...ous/gearbox.jpg Piston: - Don’t use the aluminum piston as it seems to bind too much in the ICS cylinder. The set up I prefer and will field test has the Intruder Shop Poly piston and Systema poly piston head; sounds smoother to me. Bushings: - The stock bushings are plastic. Used Systema reinforced bushings. It's hell to install, that's y I used a C-clamp and appropriate spacers to do this. Did not want to hammer it in because this might deform the lower box. Shimming is the easy part, really enjoyed it because of the open design. - The Systema reinforced bushings are what I can recommend for that gearbox. It is a pain to install because the ICS bushing holes are smaller than 6mm, so it's a pain. Use a C-clamp or maybe a table vise with appropriate adaptors/ spacers to do this. Hammering is not recommended for it will DEFORM the lower box. If this happens, you will have a hard time shimming, not to mention the trueness of the gears is suspect. Then use a lubricant, I recommend using silicon mixed with Teflon treatment. Anti-Reversal Latch/Spring Release: - Anti-reverse latch spring is #$@#, it’s so soft, no wonder sometimes the gears would reverse totally if I release the trigger in mid-cycle i.e. spring partially or almost fully compressed. Anyway, I will look for a Marui/Systema replacement today. This may be why your AEG might sometimes shoot out 2 bb’s. Actually, mine would shot out 4-5 bb’s at times when the latch totally failed to engaged. - The spring release is known to break after a while. I’d replace the ICS anti reversal lever with a Marui or Systema one Nozzle: - Nozzle for Marui AEG is longer by 0.5-1mm, and tapered thinner at the end. Thus, the ICS nozzle does not seem to go all the way into the chamber of the Systema hop up. It would appear that if you change to a Systema metal hop-up, you will have to change the nozzle too. - Systema tight nozzle for M4 will be fine Tappet: - Area 1000 tappet works fine - Marui tappet plate works fine Hop-Up: - The ICS hop adjustment is hard to adjust, even when lubricated. - Install a Systema BS barrel by putting a metal o-ring (instead of the default rubber o-ring - w/c require a groove), it’s the same ring you find on G36 hop ups. You can also buy this metal o-ring thing with an upgraded hop up backing/bucking. - I installed a Marui stock hop-up on the ICS M4 and the upper gearbox still fit perfectly, implying the Systema metal hop-up can be used - note: use a Marui size nozzle since the ICS nozzle is thinner overall but thick at the lip so it may not seal properly - to my recollection, nozzle length is same for both. - Also, the bottom tube (connecting to the magazine lip) of the Systema hop-up has to be modified as its flat metal plate snags on the lower receiver. Inner Barrel: - Removed the barrel last night and compared it to the Marui. One thing nice about the ICS barrel is it also has an O-ring that seals the barrel outside surface to the hop-up. I install the Marui barrel to see if it would fit and it does but the O-ring feature would be deleted. I need to get a micrometer to check the inside barrel dimension of the ICS because it may be a 1/2 hair wider internally. I rolled a bb through it and compared this test with the Marui. - ICS inner barrel looks lousy (not sure how other ICS barrels look), the hole for hop-up is unevenly done, barrel finish is very rough - which is probably why it’s disappointingly inaccurate out of the box - Also, be careful re-inserting the inner barrel into the receiver/barrel. If spring on the hop up is twisted, the gearbox will not fit snugly and you cannot close the receiver. - Played with the M4A1 using the TN 6.04 barrel....big difference. The range and accuracy was much better RIS Options: - The Marui RIS for M4RIS or SR 16 works fine on the ICS barrel - with TM RIS end cap. - Using the standard TM method of installing the RIS is not practical - rails wobble too much. What I did was loosen the triangle-sight and lengthened the front outer barrel section. I then fitted the RIS rails and pushed the tri-sight in position. If the RIS was still loose, I shortened the barrel. Then fitted the RIS again, and so forth..... Once I got the tightest fit possible, I tightened the front outer barrel, fitted the RIS and finally, pushed the tri-sight in place. Not a bit of wobble of the RIS anymore. Oh yeah, if there are slight rail movements, just fatten the ears of the outer barrel and end cap - I used elec. tape. - 2 ways to put a TM RIS on your ICS M4 1) w/ Marui barrel: Pro - easiest, sturdy at the collar coz its metal Cons - will still need to tighten nuts occasionally 2) w/ ICS barrel: Pro - no barrel wasted, sturdy Cons - need to replace ICS end cap (for hand guard) and collar ring, with Marui end cap (for RIS), and Marui collar ring * I did this last night and the Marui RIS for an SR16 rails fits on the ICS M4, its just a bit loose so you will need to fine-tune the length of barrel and fatten the ears on the barrel so the rails will sit tight. - Mosquito Molds M4a1 standard R.I.S. fits nice and snug with no modifications needed. Only thing I had to do was lengthen the barrel ONE full turn and the tighten it. Foregrip: - The retractable stock version can hold a 9.6v 1700 mah in the fore grip. Retractable Stock: - Could not get the Marui ret. stock to fit on the ICS receiver, it seems a tight fit, so I did not pursue this. I was thinking of installing front SR rails and a crane style stock on the ICS M4. Also, the tube for the ICS ret. stock is much lighter than the Marui tube, presumably because it’s made of aluminum. - I tried installing Marui retractable stock on the ICS M4 (w/ ret stock) and I found the Marui tube difficult to slide in. It would go in less than 1 inch then seemed to get stuck.. - According to the air smiths at Guns n Guys in Hong Kong, the Prime Crane Stock will fit and without replacing the stock stem. However, a hole needs to be drilled at the bottom of the stem closest to the body for the battery wiring. Odds and Ends: - The gearbox sound emanating from the ICS M4 when fired seems louder than on a Marui. I even compared it to a friend's Marui M4 fitted with similar specs. See Motor for fix… Minor Fixes: - On the lower gearbox, the prong holding the small spring for the electric contact switch, you can use a needle file to put a small canal, so the small spring will not detach easily. - If your rear butt pipe droops down ward, you can place a small washer or better yet a lock washer, in front of the large slotted screw to straighten the butt. taken from www.filairsoft.com and www.airsoftplayers.com Link to post Share on other sites
casey_cole Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 thanks - I've jsut got one as my first AEG - and I'll refer to this for any problesm I have. Thanks again. CC Link to post Share on other sites
Misfit Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 - Barrel wobble is non-existent. Totally re-designed from the collar ring to the front barrel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why do people say things that aren't true? Sid had to tell me how to sort out my ICS M4's barrel wobble last night. So it obviously IS existant. Admittedly, it doesn't wobble now, but it did. Link to post Share on other sites
nextmayor Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sounds just about right based upon my experience with my ICS PCR-4 (M16A3). Nice complete post. Required reading for anyone considering an ICS. Link to post Share on other sites
Angry Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Thanks for that. My ICS M4 arrived on Monday and this will be good reference material Link to post Share on other sites
Alex4Yu Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Why do people say things that aren't true? Sid had to tell me how to sort out my ICS M4's barrel wobble last night. So it obviously IS existant. Admittedly, it doesn't wobble now, but it did. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> how do you fix the barrel wobble? Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 how do you fix the barrel wobble? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's unfair to say it had "barrel wobble". The delta ring assembly was loose. He tightened it up and the barrel stopped wobbling. It's like saying a gun has a problem with a loose stock when it's just that the screws need tightening. Link to post Share on other sites
Easy Company Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Retractable Stock: - Could not get the Marui ret. stock to fit on the ICS receiver, it seems a tight fit, so I did not pursue this. I was thinking of installing front SR rails and a crane style stock on the ICS M4. Also, the tube for the ICS ret. stock is much lighter than the Marui tube, presumably because it’s made of aluminum. - I tried installing Marui retractable stock on the ICS M4 (w/ ret stock) and I found the Marui tube difficult to slide in. It would go in less than 1 inch then seemed to get stuck.. - According to the air smiths at Guns n Guys in Hong Kong, the Prime Crane Stock will fit and without replacing the stock stem. However, a hole needs to be drilled at the bottom of the stem closest to the body for the battery wiring. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I currently have a Classic Army M4 stock assembly in the mail and on the way. From what I understand after starting a thread over on Airsoft Cleveland (nextmayor's team forum), it is infact doable to mate the stock to the ICS receiver. From what I gather, all that's required is some Dremeling to the tube "ears" that guide the tube into the back of the receiver. I'll update once I've done the swap. Link to post Share on other sites
AussyMurphy Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 I'd like to make a few additions to this: -Firstly the pistol grip is not compatible with Marui compatible pistol grips. The motor allignment is different, and will strip your pinion gear and possibly your gear. -Systema metal hop-up is actually a VERY complicated modification. You have to do a LOT more than just shave down the square part at the bottom. -The anti-reversal latch problems have been remedied and now works very well. -When it comes to an aftermarket spring guide, I'd suggest getting the ICS one because it comes with a locking screw that will hold the spring guide in place. -When reasembling the gun, make sure the latch on the backside of the mag well is engaged by the upper gearbox. That's all that I can think of for now. I know a few more things, but I just can't think of them. ~Tyler Link to post Share on other sites
nextmayor Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Like I said, excellant ICS post! Covers just about everything. Here's another ICS thread that I contributed to. There MIGHT be some info in there to make this even better. A great post on a great AEG. +1 http://www.airsoftretreat.com/forums/topic...?TOPIC_ID=88059 Link to post Share on other sites
david3558 Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The barrel would wobble, if you put too much stress on it: ex: sling. To tighten again, take a small hammer and hit those two pins on the barrel further in to prevent wobbling.. Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The barrel would wobble, if you put too much stress on it: ex: sling. To tighten again, take a small hammer and hit those two pins on the barrel further in to prevent wobbling.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> WRONG! Knock those pins in further and all you'll do is cause them to dig into the inner barrel and make it difficult to remove. I gotta say, I live in fear of noticing this starting to come loose. If those pins come loose the only possibility is that the holes are starting to stretch. If that happens, I'd say the only solution would be to drill the holes out a slightly bigger size and then fit larger pins or maybe grub screws instead. Hammering the pins further in certainly wouldn't help with anything. Link to post Share on other sites
david3558 Posted December 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 lol, well it helped me, maybe im describing it wrong, well I forgot which side i hit the little pins. They are really tight now. Link to post Share on other sites
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