Hissing_Sid Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Just got lent one to have a look at. First impression is that it's very, very impressive. The gun itself is very well made and heavy as hell. The SUSAT is an absolute work of art. It weighs about the same as a decent GBB! The gun has been sent to me without the 1J modification and, even shooting at 405fps, it EASILY cycles using an 8.4v mini pack. I've read that the gun won't work with 8.4v batteries but it's nonsense. It is very, very smooth. So smooth, in fact, that I would have sworn it wasn't shooting at 405fps - until I chrono'd it. And now for a bit of bad news... Despite being one of the sexiest bits of airsoft kit around (truly, truly, stunning), the SUSAT is almost useless for airsoft. There's no eye relief on the scope. You need to jam your eye right up to the scope to see a clear, full, sight picture. If you're wearing something like Bolle Siliums you can just about use it, like looking through a keyhole, but if you're wearing goggles or a mask then forget about using the SUSAT. More news when I have it. Link to post Share on other sites
Robot 2000 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I've read on ASCUK that when people have tried skirmishing it it's run down batteries pretty quickly for some reason (gearbox too stiff/motor not got enough torque?). Any word on this? Link to post Share on other sites
yellobelli Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 sid, please pretend to break it so i can buy it off you cheap Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I've read on ASCUK that when people have tried skirmishing it it's run down batteries pretty quickly for some reason (gearbox too stiff/motor not got enough torque?). Any word on this? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'll get back to you in about 1000-odd shots. Link to post Share on other sites
Robot 2000 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Well, I've given you the excuse - go have fun Link to post Share on other sites
yellobelli Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 thankyou sid, ill hold you to that Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I've noticed people have said they are seeing "quirks" with the fire selector. As you do, I just got finished taking it to bits and I gotta say I'm very disappointed with the fire selector internals. It's made of 3 or 4 parts which are rather spindly and made out of weak metal. The whole thing pivots on a C section shaft which has a metal cam fitted over it. From new it's not a perfect fit and I'd bet money it's gonna get worse as the shaft wears and the cam stretches slightly. These parts REALLY need replacing with machined-steel ones. I hope somebody from Systema is reading this! As for taking it to bits, what a PITA! Considering it is "held together" with 2 pins, you need to remove about a squillion screws to get the gun to bits. There are also 3 fake pins which are cross-drilled with tiny holes that you need to slot a tiny allen key through and twist to unscrew. I also found a couple of screws which had mangled heads right out of the factory. Hopefully somebody at Star will get a decent set of screwdrivers for christmas. Oh and, on that note, when you get the gun, have a look at the multi-tool that comes with it, play with it for a few minutes then tossit back in the box and forget about it. Attempting to use it to work on the gun would be like trying to take a bike apart with the nasty spanner-thing that you always get. [edit] Just to add, and I know people are gonna disagree, that I get my jollies from proper innovation. I like to look at stuff and be impressed by the design and construction. Any idiot can build something that's held together with a million screws. It takes thought and intelligence to build something that is held together with a couple of pins. The ICS M4 (and Systema PTW, I guess) are miles ahead of the L85 in design, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
Redcap Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I was afraid of that. Thanks for the info, mate. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I can't decide whether I should be annoyed my anti-SA80 petition was ignored, or smug that STAR made a half-arsed job of it. I'm going with smug. Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 I was a little peeved when i saw that the "2 pin takedown" needed the whole butt assembly taken off as well. People in ASCUk country are complaining about their fire selects and gearbox shimmings. Do these sound like easily fixable problems? Or is it a case of "unless systema make upgrades, you're screwed?" Thanks for the heads up on the susat aswell. Link to post Share on other sites
Belladonna Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 as i expected, *beep* with a price tag... Link to post Share on other sites
Kipper Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Its a shame they made a bad job of the internals.. as thatll be the hardest to replace.. if at all Link to post Share on other sites
Hissing_Sid Posted December 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 To get the receiver to bits you need to whip out the 2 pins and remove the 4 screws at the front. TBH, I don't see any reason why you'd ever want to actually do just this, really. The spring has a quick-change doo-dah and you can access this (I think - judging by the pile of bits in front of me) by removing the 2 screws and the butt-cap. And, if you want to do anything other than swap the spring, you're looking at undoing about a squillion more screws. Bear in mind that I'm just guessing about the fire-selector but the one on mine is already a bit loose and, judging by the metal it's made of, it's going to wear pretty quickly. I definately wouldn't use the spring-decompressor very often. Link to post Share on other sites
mach3t3 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 ouch, i really didnt expect that... really... it sounded good, i moght have got one if they dropped the price by, say, £200, but if its going to mean another 70 or 80 squid on top, forget it unlucky i guess Link to post Share on other sites
Lance Jackass Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Well you can bin the SUSAT and take another £100 off... Link to post Share on other sites
yellobelli Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 STOP FOCUSING ON THE NEGATIVE its all you guys do, if your that worried about performance you will never be satisfied, from what hissing says i think its awesome and i will happily buy one, if i have the money, now stop bitching and start appreciating!!! .x.X.Krystal.X.x. Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore_Mitsuko Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 STOP FOCUSING ON THE NEGATIVE <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why not? Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost_Rider Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 STOP FOCUSING ON THE NEGATIVE its all you guys do, if your that worried about performance you will never be satisfied, from what hissing says i think its awesome and i will happily buy one, if i have the money, now stop bitching and start appreciating!!! .x.X.Krystal.X.x. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> For £400 it should sit up and whistle dixie. It looks to me like there are some major flaws with the deign and execution of the replica - it's a *badgeress* to strip, QC aint great (stripped screw heads, anyone?) fire selectors dodgy, plus a couple of other things Hissing Sid has mentioned in IRC. At £200, that sort of thing might be a pain in the *albatross*. At £400 it's unforgivable. Link to post Share on other sites
Chris P Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 As with anything in life people are more inclined to complain than praise items. I would rather know whats bad about a rifle then know whats good about. This means I can way up anything that will effect the rifles life and considering the VCR bill is coming I want anything new that I buy to last a while. A few questions that I wouldn't mind having answered: Is it the same gearbox as their M249? Iron sites, Any good? Over all machining, does it look like a monkey or a man did it? Can you really justify the price tag? Link to post Share on other sites
PariahWolf Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 STOP FOCUSING ON THE NEGATIVE its all you guys do, if your that worried about performance you will never be satisfied, from what hissing says i think its awesome and i will happily buy one, if i have the money, now stop bitching and start appreciating!!! .x.X.Krystal.X.x. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Really from Sid I got the impresion it is badly made and may possibly break very soon. Not really my cup of tea. So Sid you recomending the ICS M4 over this in performance and quality? Edit:spelling Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore_Mitsuko Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 At £200, that sort of thing might be a pain in the *albatross*. At £400 it's unforgivable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. If people are wondering about spending £400 on a gun, then they will want to know if it's worth it. From the looks of things, the negative far outweighs the positive, unless you are of the opinion that it's worth £400 for looks alone. Link to post Share on other sites
Sledge Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 As G_R pointed out, for the money it should be nigh on flawless, not in need of £70-£80 worth of parts. If I buy a UTG AEG for £100, I don't mind that'll it'll take a little time and money to make it truly skirmishable. I don't expect that from something that costs about twice as much as an ICS or CA metal AEG. Link to post Share on other sites
Shard Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Indeed Surely paying the hefty price tag of £400 would mean something towards a high degree of quality and performance. It wasn't so long ago that people were saying that the "quality" was the reason the L85 series were to cost so much. I don't want one, but i thought at the time that was a reasonable statement to make. As it appears to have turned out as a half arsed production, with a fair few apparent negatives that seem quite critical, i think a £400 aeg with sub par performance for something of that price tag is something to focus on. For example I doubt you would forgive systema, if their PTW's had shifty fire selects that could eventually break - though perhaps i'm wrong and you would gloss over that little negative that could stop the entire gun being useable Link to post Share on other sites
Catchv22 Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Also, I haven't heard STAR being the best at technical support, so don't expect them to improve the parts and send them to you for free. If G&G would come out with the L85, I'm sure they'd send you the parts to fix any of the issues in the first run, and it'd be at a much cheaper price as well... Link to post Share on other sites
Pendra Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 OK let's concentrate on the positive side: It is still the only full metal L85 available in quantities. The more I think of it, the classic ones had a metalised plastic bottom receiver, so that means it is the ONLY full metal L85 on the market. The outside is supposed to be 100% authentic both in colors and used material. And it comes with a free case (sorry I couldn't resist). Also, given the price tag, I guess you will not see many players fielding one. So it may not loose the rarity factor. The quick spring change function and the see through gearbox are nice ideas as well. The last one may prove helpfull if you experience problems inside the GB. But I still don't like the stripping. It is there just for the show. It has no practical function. I really wanted it to work like the real thing. So you could swap the LSW top with a AFV top in no time on the field. That would be a clear advantage. About the internals, dunno. We will see. Link to post Share on other sites
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