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CA M15 Series


ColDaz

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Indeed, personally I'm primarily for the UK use of the Steyr AUG, as in my opinion it's one of the best assault rifles in the world, not to mention the relatively modular nature of it, making transitions between roles quite easy. Still, god knows how much it'd cost to set up the whole UK Armed Forces with AUGs...

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"These rumours are as old as the XM8 Program itself. Most of them are BS, hawked around by some hardcore AR15-fanatics who couldn't accept that the AR15 System is one of the worst military rifles in the world.

 

Time will tell, let's take our popcorn and watch the show. If a offical information is released we can talk about, but we shouldn't speculate about rumours. "

 

They arnt rumors, the person ive talked to has talked to XM8 testers and SSG Thorpe of the US Army(involved in the project). the optic is too high and has terrible battery life, it melts on full auto, i could go on and on(i owe my knowledge to him).

 

The Ar-15 is one of the best weapon systems in the world. Its very modular and very reliable. Just about all the initial bugs have been wiped out. why do you think its been around for over 40 Years? have you ever used one?

 

its funny that you talk about how bad the Ar-15 is when you have a G36 in your avatar. the g36 is only marginally better than the crappy XM8. A guy on ar15.com has a G36(under a special lisence) and it melted while he was doing magazine dumps. H&K makes out there guns to be some of the best in the world, when some have flaws. they make some great firearms but some are not so great.

 

Email me at kjs776@hotmail.com if you want he guys email adress. I dont want to argue.

 

Oh and Colt only sued Bushmaster and H&K so they cant name their guns the m4.

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They arnt rumors, the person ive talked to has talked to XM8 testers and SSG Thorpe of the US Army(involved in the project). the optic is too high and has terrible battery life, it melts on full auto, i could go on and on(i owe my knowledge to him).

 

Talked to a person that has talked to an other person and so on... for me that are rumorus - sorry. As long as the Army not officially make a statement

 

 

The Ar-15 is one of the best weapon systems in the world. Its very modular and very reliable.

 

It's modular - yes. But realiable it's only if you clean it constantly. And exactly that makes it useless as military rifle for me. In combat situations, you don't have the time or even the possibility to clean it two or three times a day. Especially in the desert areas, where the United States fight wars today. Talk to soldiers how often they are advised to clean their M4/M16s in the sandy areas of Iraq and Afghanistan. As a civil sports-rifle or for LE purposes the AR15 is okay. These Rifles can be cleaned after everey useage and don't have to take so much stress as in military service.

 

Just about all the initial bugs have been wiped out.

 

A lot of them, but not all. The gas-system is still a major pain, magazines often double fed and jam (especially if fully loaded with 30 Rounds), gas-pipes take damage from RIS (funny but true), the fixed stock of the full size rifles is too long, no ambidexterious controls etc.

 

why do you think its been around for over 40 Years?

 

Good question. But only because it have been around for 40 years doesn't mean it's a good rifle. In my point of view, it's a shame for Colt that they were not able to make a better rifle in 40 years of development.

 

 

have you ever used one?

Not only one, a few. Colt, Bushmaster, DPMS, OA (German AR-Manufacturer). The Colt was pure ######, jamming, missfeeding and soiling all the time. The other ones were better, but not a quarter as good as other designs like from SIG, FN, Steyr or HK e.g.. because they still need to be cleaned pretty often compared to the competing designs.

 

 

its funny that you talk about how bad the Ar-15 is when you have a G36 in your avatar. the g36 is only marginally better than the crappy XM8.

 

The G36 is not perfect by far. And you will never hear me saying something like that. The fire selector is strange in position and use, no bolt-catch (only US Version has one), half open laying bolt, vulnerable stock, *suitcasey* Optics (G36A2 Version is better) etc. But at least it's reliable. I never would trust a AR15 if my life depends on it.

 

 

A guy on ar15.com has a G36(under a special lisence) and it melted while he was doing magazine dumps.

 

Heard about these storys. But can't imagine they are true. German armend forces using the G36 over five years now in larger numbers, the Spanish over three years and there was never a problem with the polymer-body.

 

 

I dont want to argue.

 

Agree, I don't want to argue too :). But you see the AR15 System is not only surrounded by supporters. There are a lot of people who don't like it. And there are good reasons for this, it's not only "bashing".

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Clarification:

The last time I checked up on this kind of thing, rifles with the AR suffix (AR-10, AR-15 etc) were civilian versions, some chambered for 7.62NATO.

 

The M16/M4 is very modular, true, but they're complete *beep*.

 

The only time an m16/m4 works is when it's clean, something that you just cannot garuntee in warfare.

 

Dunk it in water for a minute or two and it will either not fire or jam.

Get it sandy, not fire, jam.

That'd bugger you up right good and proper in the middle of a firefight, wouldn't it?

 

Anyway, isn't the XM8 just G36 internals worked into a new body?

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"But at least it's reliable. I never would trust a AR15 if my life depends on it. "

 

The army has tested with gas pistons for the M4s and M16s and it increases reliablility. Gas piston Conversion kits have been sent to troops in Iraq.

 

"The Colt was pure ######, jamming, missfeeding and soiling all the time."

 

jamming mostly occurs when the mags are *suitcasey*, not the gun.

 

"But realiable it's only if you clean it constantly."

 

That is untrue. The M16 series is very reliable, even if it isnt cleaned. Plus troops are told to clean thheir guns often.

 

"it's a shame for Colt that they were not able to make a better rifle in 40 years of development. "

 

The m16A4 Is the latest M16 and it is a very good combat rifle(reports from Iraq say so). The USMC has placed a huge order for more M16A4s. If the USMC finds a good combat rifle they stick with it(past wars have shown this). Now if the M16A4 sucked why would they still use it?

 

"Heard about these storys. But can't imagine they are true. German armend forces using the G36 over five years now in larger numbers, the Spanish over three years and there was never a problem with the polymer-body. "

 

They are true, If I can find the link, i will back this up.

 

"Talked to a person that has talked to an other person and so on... for me that are rumorus - sorry. As long as the Army not officially make a statement"

 

I understand. :)

 

"Wonder what would happen if they tinkered with a M4"

 

They wouldnt help it at all, just like the L85

 

"Good thing we have Heckler & Koch eh"

Yeah so all our guns can melt can melt from their Plastic connstruction! Screw Steel, Plastic Rules!

 

They are advertising masters, making there guns look 10x better than they really are.

 

"The M16/M4 is very modular, true, but they're complete *beep*.

 

The only time an m16/m4 works is when it's clean, something that you just cannot garuntee in warfare.

 

Dunk it in water for a minute or two and it will either not fire or jam.

Get it sandy, not fire, jam.

That'd bugger you up right good and proper in the middle of a firefight, wouldn't it?"

 

Where is your source? A guy has fired an Ar-15 underwater(ar-15.com to very bad results). It will definantly fire, just your gun will be ruined. Plus Navy seals take M4s in and outt of water all the time and they still work fine(from what ive heard). Unimatrixx seems a bit credible, you seem like a little kid making stuff up.

 

Heres something to read about the M16 and m4 (read it all, be warned, its long)

 

http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/311467-1.html

 

its interesting imo

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Just curious kjs7, what kind of modification to the gas cylinder are you talking about?

Unimatrix, Colt have actually made many modifications to improve their ar15-line, though many of them have never been adopted for various reasons, so the fault are not their entirely. But it appears that they have friends in high places helping them out from time to time(the m4).

The longer stock is a strange thing, I don't understand the purpose of it, even if the US armed forces kept the older shorter ones in some quantities.

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The army has tested with gas pistons for the M4s and M16s and it increases reliablility. Gas piston Conversion kits have been sent to troops in Iraq.

 

We will see, i hope a gas piston become standard for the AR15, perhaps then it becomes a better rifle.

 

 

"The Colt was pure ######, jamming, missfeeding and soiling all the time."

 

jamming mostly occurs when the mags are *suitcasey*, not the gun.

 

Sure, but the same magazines feed absolut properly in the bushmaster. Also a brand new magazine directly out of the original wrapping changed nothing.

 

 

"But realiable it's only if you clean it constantly."

 

That is untrue. The M16 series is very reliable, even if it isnt cleaned. Plus troops are told to clean thheir guns often.

 

I can't agree for the ARs I know, but I don't know ervery single weapon of course :)

 

 

The m16A4 Is the latest M16 and it is a very good combat rifle(reports from Iraq say so). The USMC has placed a huge order for more M16A4s. If the USMC finds a good combat rifle they stick with it(past wars have shown this). Now if the M16A4 sucked why would they still use it?

 

I never fired a M16A4 of course. So I'm unable to say something qualified about it :). Exept for: It's made by FN... not by Colt... so it MUST be better :D. The only thing I'm still wondering about is that they didn't changed the Stock.

 

 

They are true, If I can find the link, i will back this up.

 

Would be nice to see pics :)

 

 

Plus Navy seals take M4s in and outt of water all the time and they still work fine(from what ive heard).

 

Hmmm... well salt water is a big problem for every gun. AFAIK the Navy Seals use waterproof bags and/or containers to transport guns under water. Also they use a wide range of other guns beside the M4, like the SIG 551 and 552. But I'm not an expert for the SEALS :).

 

 

Unimatrixx seems a bit credible

 

Oh, thank you :P

 

 

The longer stock is a strange thing, I don't understand the purpose of it, even if the US armed forces kept the older shorter ones in some quantities.

 

Yes it's pretty strange. The old stock was already too long for the most soldiers, but instead of shortening the stock the made it 2cm longer in the A2 version... US Army logic ?

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"Exept for: It's made by FN... not by Colt... so it MUST be better ."

 

Im pretty sure Colt came up with tthe specs, and FN makes the guns(the m16A4 has the Colt trademarks on the reciever).

 

Oh and another thing, Colt was the first to present a gas piston upper for the M16/M4 but the DoD wasnt interested. H&K was not the first to do this in an Ar-15(just to stop this from coming up).

 

Lastly, Im still trying to find the M15a4 pic.

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Quick reminder - this is an Airsoft forum guys. Obviously real-steel is a perfectly legitimate reference as our toys are all replicas of real-steel guns.

 

But this is past mere references. Let's not get in to discussions of ammunition, real-steel modifications, in-depth operation & shortfalls of real-steel mechanics, etc... Operation of real-steels is not particularly relevant to Airsoft as the performance of a specific firearm in no way translates to its Airsoft replica.

 

Apart from anything else, there aren't a lot of people with genuine relevant experience of real-steels (especially assault rifles) on this board (although there are a few), and we don't want arguments starting based on misconceptions and rhumor.

 

Many thanks.

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Apart from anything else, there aren't a lot of people with genuine relevant experience of real-steels (especially assault rifles) on this board (although there are a few), and we don't want arguments starting based on misconceptions and rhumor.

 

Second that.

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