The blind fire rule, Good or bad ?

[Big Willy]

f***ing W***er GIT-R-DUN

[Thomme]

Ah, you see, Marlowe hit on it. Every field I play at requires a full face/ear p-ball mask be used. So, hits to the ear/nose are out of the question. This is why our opinions differ so much. Whenever we talk about blind firing, the worst case scenario I can think of is a neck shot, cuase we use full face protection, where all ya'll think of nose/ear/ face shots.

 

I said it before, that the rule can be applied to skirmishes that don't require full face mask, but, as long as there's full face masks, I think it should be allowed.

[Hissing_Sid]

I said it before, that the rule can be applied to skirmishes that don't require full face mask, but, as long as there's full face masks, I think it should be allowed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But that still doesn't prevent the boredom which would ensue if the opposition was made up of a bunch of morons who were happy to sit in a ditch at their basecamp and simply hose for an hour.

 

I know that's unlikely but it could happen.

 

Equally, a guy with a box-mag could theoretically hide behind a door in a room and avoid getting hit for a long while by hosing.

In this situation, you've got a bunch of people who have all PAID to spend a day having fun. They aren't going to want so sit around smoking cigarettes while one rather dull person gradually eats their way through 3000 BBs.

 

Again, unlikely but definately possible.

 

By implimenting a blind-fire rule the marshals have got some leverage to force people into proper engagements. Hopefully, they would never have to invoke it, except for safety reasons, but it's there to persuade people to stop hiding if required.

[Thomme]

Ah... if face masks were required equipment, blind firing in moderation could be allowed. Any examples of excess blind firing (like the situations described above) would be dealt with on a case-by case basis, ya know?

[Longhairedhippy]

i think that something that is concrete is best, as it can be dealt with by the players themselves. this is especially important at US sites, since quite a few do not actually have referees.

[Thomme]

i think that something that is concrete is best, as it can be dealt with by the players themselves.  this is especially important at US sites, since quite a few do not actually have referees.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

true, but, we're never going to reach a unanimous decision or a concrete country wide rule on it.

[Crazy_Harry]

hissing sid, you should have been at SWAT 04- that was a DULL game.

 

lots of both teams just sitting and hosing, very, very dull...really didn't enjoy that one at all, but there you are :_

[Longhairedhippy]

that's not quite what I was implying, but that is indeed a valid point.

 

My main idea was that there needs to be a definitive yes/no (obvisouly on a site-by-site basis) due to the fact that a concrete rule leaves no room for interpretation, while "certain cases" can leave room for argument, which just ruins the game for everyone.

[Hissing_Sid]

Ah... if face masks were required equipment, blind firing in moderation could be allowed.  Any examples of excess blind firing (like the situations described above) would be dealt with on a case-by case basis, ya know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For sure. I can't imagine any marshal pulling a player if, for example, they were retreating and gave a quick burst around a corner to cover their retreat.

 

It's just that the rule needs to be in place, as a "rule" so a marshal can use it if required.

After all, if it wasn't a rule, I can imagine the conversation:-

Marshal: "Hey, guys, get out of that ditch."

Idiots: "Why should we?"

M: "Well, you've been there for half an hour now."

I: "Yeah! Great isn't it?!"

M "Well, no. Not for the people waiting for the next game to start."

I: "Tough. We roxorz!"

M: "I quit!"

 

It's just a question of stating all the rules before you start so people don't just assume thay can do dodgy things.

[Longhairedhippy]

indeed. i know my local site does a safety/rules briefing before every day's play starts, and everyone must attend, even seasoned vets. newbies are given the chance to ask questions, etc. it really helps gameplay flow smoother.

[Krazy L]

I am all for it. I do world war two re-enactments with real guns (blank adapted) and the rule applys there to. Trust me you do not want a full auto mp40 or mp44 going off in your face .

 

Edit:

If you want, you could go to my webpage at http://www.3rdarmored.com/

The sherman tank is my dad and my 16 month long project we just finished, and hwe owns all the vehicles.

[4PlayCycles]

What the hell are you on about? If your not wearing a mask, thats just plain stupid, you cen get a pro mask for £20 now so get one, because head shots count and I have no mercy for people who dont wear the proper facial protection. If someone blind fires at me i drop to the ground and sipe him in the head when he looks arround. Not wearing a mask whenever playing with any kinds of bb guns is just plain stupid, its like wearing trainers for a rugby match, or going on holiday to babados with your snowbording jacket, it just shouldnt be done.

[Banzai]

I have to agree, for CQB at least. I mean, come ON, full auto at close ranges, someones gonna get shot in the head, period, blind or not

[4PlayCycles]

And as for pain, i've been shot thousands of times with CO2 guns which are too powerfull for skirmikshes, and the pain goes away. Some of you lot are a bunch of pussies, honestly, the guy who said he would quit if he was gonna get injured, OMG! You could probably do some more serious damage to yourself playing chess and falling off your chair! I come from downhill mountain biking, where you do speeds on average of 35mph, but on some courses can go upto 60mph, and we do jumps, big jumps, rock gardens, the lot, and we fall off. Now I wear all the neccasary protection, but I'm telling you, i'd rather take an AEG to the forehead from 10ft than falling off into a gint pit of rocks at 35mph! Just toughen yourselves up.

[4PlayCycles]

Banzai, I totally agree, even if its aimed, what if someone has too much hop up on, thats an aimed chess shot ends up in the eye. Crosswinds, nerves, fear, fatigue, all theses things could cause you to accidently shoot someone in the face, get a mask!

[docs90]

In my opinion and that of Lightfighter airsoft sites Blind fireing is not tolerated !

 

Only shoot @ what you can hit ,it is not only dangerous but UNSPORTING

 

And the later fact of unsporting i what the whole airsoft community is about ,sportsmanship

 

Its gay

[4PlayCycles]

Ok then docs90, what do u think about this case, for example; I'm walking along, and someone takes a few aimed shots at me, but misses me, so I dash, drop, cover. Then i'm behind an object, i stick my head round the corner and he rattles 20 off at me, but still misses, is it ok for me to put my gun round the corner, and strategically fire a few off to get him to take cover so i can make my move?

[DarkLite]

I think that BFing is perfectly acceptable in Woodland, but definately not in CQB.

 

From my own personal experience, it's painful, dishonourable and downright selfish really.

 

Case: Someone sticks a 400+FPS AK47 round the corner you were running towards and fires a blind burst at about 4 feet.

 

It hurts, and it's poor sportsmanship. There was no challenge, no chance to fight back at all, just 50 or so welts across my sternum.

 

I've also taken part of a 165 bb shower grenade from 8 feet. Thank god i only caught a bit of it, but the blinding screaming agony that kept me out of the next two games was VERY irritating.

 

The only times that I think BFing is acceptable is when you know someone is there and not too close, ie 10-15ft+ AND you are totally pinned. I mean 3 or 4 people hosing the barrel you're hiding behind.

 

Anyway, I find it much more satisfying to force someone into surrender than to BF.

[Marlowe]

See! I agree with docs entirely. Not that I would disagree with him anyway, seeing how it's LF where I've started to play the most....

 

Is it me or is there a cultural divide becoming evident here between the way the British airsoft and the way nations with higher FPS limits (eg America) choose to?

[DarkLite]

Personally, I think that no AEG should be allowed over 350fps.

 

600 rounds at 400fps is not fun at all. Only snipers should be allowed to go over 350, and certainly not above 550.

 

C02 Gas guns? Meh, limited ammo capacity balances out the 400-450 fps.

[Drayvn]

Over here in Guernsey, we dont mind blind firing, but we do everytime before a coporate or kids game let the guys know that its better to aim ur weapon round the corner with u following as ull be able to hit the person better than just spraying round the corner.

 

But again we dont mind ppl who spray round corners. A hits a hit, so be it. But our one rule is single shot inside anywhere there is a roof over ur head, so we have a bunker that leads outside, u can only fire single ride inside the bunker. So really negates the use of blind firing. As u need full auto for it.

 

And since the single shot rule applies then, well u really do need to peek round the corner with ur gun anyway.

[Marlowe]

I think that the UK limits are fairly suitable for airsofting (many of the Yanks will no doubt disagree with that). However, the one element of the current limits used by most skirmishing sites in the UK which I don't agree with was the shift in the last year towards having a 1J limit not only for automatic weapons but also single / bolt action.

 

Now I'm not a sniper, but this seems to make the weapons fairly pointless. The marginal increase in accuracy offered by a bolt action rifle in most situations to me seems to be little compensation for a guy with an assault rifle firing at the same velocity and spitting out a few hundred bbs a minute. By having lowered the effective range of such weapons in my eyes makes them little more than novelty weapons for those eccentric people who want to play sniper...:S

 

However that's the current trend with UK sites and insurance, so who am I to argue?

 

I think it's interesting that culturally the majority British players on this thread appear to favour as someone else said earlier the 'it's just not cricket' mentality (as I do), whilst the majority of American posters adopt a 'well if this was a real life situation I wouldn't do that' view.

 

Perhaps this thread's succeeded in drawing out the different cultural values / views of airsoft?

[Hairy]

I think that BFing is perfectly acceptable in Woodland, but definately not in CQB.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My thinking is that there's woodland, and then there's woodland

 

At Combat South sticks, there's a shack, a small village, and bit 'n' pieces to hide behind.

 

Somone firing blind into one of the buildings is just as dangerous (and painful) as in CQB.. because it is at Close Quarters.

 

A burst on the hoof (let's call it "semi-aimed fire") to cover an advance is one thing; firing a Moscart through a window into a bunch of defenders is quite another..

[heavyweps]

This is beyond any shadow of a doubt a 50-50 issue, personally having lost a tooth in a BF incident i can see the safety aspect . . . and at the same time the attraction of BFing with a mac11 holds attraction for a certain kind of player. Now frankly, when it comes too myself, I do step out from corners and check targets and will use that corner as cover but only on a viable angle of attack.

 

For example, looking into a corner from a 45 to 60 degree angle allows you the maximum amount of coverage without DIRECTLY entering the corner, the angle allows me to fire controlled bursts at enemy players situated away from the wall whilst not allowing enemy players hugging the wall who could be in a position to come round the corner, to advance. (rereads the paragraph to make sure it makes sense, yep i think so) though i can`t see the other player i can see both my angle of attack and when retreating from the corner, i have ample space to double tap anyone dumb enough to come round the corner without endangering anyone.

 

oh and just so you all know not an ak hicap using scumbag, g36 and lo-caps only admittedly about 20 lo-caps but hey

[Marlowe]

Lol yet another person who seems to think that all ak users with hicaps do nothing but spray. Some re-education needs to take place I think....