HK 416 Finds use in Iraq.

[PariahWolf]

I'm almost 100% certain it's a RAV, definitely not a CIRAS.

 

Could be the predator.

 

Also is that guy actually bothering with a ladder to get over that wall?

[Wesker]

No one said anything about the scope... Schmidt & Bender' Short Dot (1.1 to x4 with an illuminated dot).

[Milla]

Cool pic, H&K is awesome, but expensive.

[Trasher]

I just think that American weapons don't get the credit they deserve. I have nothing against the term "German engineered" but American Engineered is right up there with them.

American engineering is up there, but... how should I put it.... in a different league. As a part of my job, I shot hundreds of different RS guns over the years. German guns tend to work flawlessly out-of-box, regardless of their make/manufacturer. That's definitely not the case with a great deal of US made stuff...

 

And why should HK care about civilians and low prices when their manufacturing capacity is sold out for 2-3 years in advance.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Trasher

[Titleist]

The problem is H&K thinks that they *beep* gold. They don't, they make nice guns for the most part, but they price them too high and their service and parts division is poorly regarded among users in the field.

 

I'll agree with what booster said, I love german engineering, but lets not brush aside america and german engineering. That said, I'm a big fan of smaller companies lately, who keep innovating, or even big ones like Fabrique Nationale, who understand that that designing a gun is only half of the equation, it's selling it for an obtainable price that completes it.

 

I don't necessarily agree on that Trasher, I'd put my friend's Kimber against a USP any day of the week. Products range in quality across the board, however I think the MP5 is a great gun, the G36 is a great gun. But they have not produced anything since that has as field proven or as reliable. Frankly H&K is the Sony or Bose of the gun world, used to be great, but have coasted on product brand recognition for a long time. "Oh this product must be good, cuz it's expensive."

 

Again, I like a lot of H&Ks products, but lately they've been churning out ###### in the hopes of getting a government pork barrel contract.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Titleist

[MistorPie]

weird, i was just looking at the HK 416.

[Trasher]

I don't necessarily agree on that Trasher, I'd put my friend's Kimber against a USP any day of the week.

We don't have to agree... I have a long mental list of US made self-loading pistols that failed in some way out-of-box, and a very short list of german guns doing the same. But this is getting offtopic...

[Milla]

The problem is H&K thinks that they *beep* gold. They don't, they make nice guns for the most part, but they price them too high and their service and parts division is poorly regarded among users in the field.

 

I'll agree with what booster said, I love german engineering, but lets not brush aside america and german engineering. That said, I'm a big fan of smaller companies lately, who keep innovating, or even big ones like Fabrique Nationale, who understand that that designing a gun is only half of the equation, it's selling it for an obtainable price that completes it.

 

I don't necessarily agree on that Trasher, I'd put my friend's Kimber against a USP any day of the week. Products range in quality across the board, however I think the MP5 is a great gun, the G36 is a great gun. But they have not produced anything since that has as field proven or as reliable. Frankly H&K is the Sony or Bose of the gun world, used to be great, but have coasted on product brand recognition for a long time. "Oh this product must be good, cuz it's expensive."

 

Again, I like a lot of H&Ks products, but lately they've been churning out ###### in the hopes of getting a government pork barrel contract.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

MP7, P2000 are the 2 new ones no?

 

 

Anyway i plan on getting a USP Compact eventually, probably next year now, as in i cannot afford one at the moment because i was going to get one for my birthday this month. Oh well, ill just wait and get one next year.

 

 

Also Colt lost the M16 contract to FN because Colt had a higher number of flawed rifles than FN had.

[boosterboy]

I concur with Trasher

 

let's not let this errupt into

 

a 1911 VS USP argument or

 

gas-impingement VS. piston

 

it could get ugly and would violate arnie's forum rules.

 

Let's save it for our next paper punching session

[boosterboy]

Frankly H&K is the Sony or Bose of the gun world, used to be great, but have coasted on product brand recognition for a long time. "Oh this product must be good, cuz it's expensive."

 

Good metaphor.

 

But Sony has committed worser sins like rebranding *suitcasey* consumer electronics, while their consumer level customers still think it's "made in Japan"

[HaVoC]

I'm almost 100% certain it's a RAV, definitely not a CIRAS.

I'm swinging the other way. The shoulder area just looks TOTALLY WRONG for the RAV/RMV.

 

While I can see the point about what appears to be a rear zipper, it could simply be a shadow cast by someone else on the back of the vest. The Paraclete pouches are another point, but then I have 2 Paraclete M4 singles on my CIRAS...

 

The area where the cummerbund comes out of the rear panel also looks more CIRAS-like, although I'm not massively familiar with the RAV/RMV.

 

The colour would have been useful to tell it apart, apart from the fact that the photo isn't great due to the lighting, and Eagle now make 'Ranger Green' CIRAS vests as well as OD ones. That, and their OD looks quite like Paraclete's 'Smoke Green' anyway.

 

To be honest, I don't think we'll ever figure out what it is unless the guy comes on here and tells us

[boosterboy]

Hey Havoc, go get your OD Ciras and some ACU and stand in the same position, and have someone take a picture of up at a relatively slow shutter speed.

 

We'll reproduce the situation like how people do it on TV like on CSI

 

 

PS.

 

What if those are DBT m4 pouches. the color of the elastic band throws me off.

Edited July 2, 2006 by boosterboy

[Tommygunn]

Not Iraq but NASA security:

[Dirty]

Ok, it's not the 101st. Who is it? Notice the patch on the right side of two of the helmets. I don't recognize it from what you can see.

 

Can 101st pick and choose their armor carriers? Are they given SOF gear freedom, or are they required to be uniform?

[Milla]

NASA security....hmmm thats intresting.

[HaVoC]

Hey Havoc, go get your OD Ciras and some ACU and stand in the same position, and have someone take a picture of up at a relatively slow shutter speed.

 

We'll reproduce the situation like how people do it on TV like on CSI

Anyone want to buy me the ACU?

 

EDIT: After coming across a big pictoral review of the DBT Predator, I think the vest pictured may indeed be one of those. The shoulder and cummerbund areas look spot-on.

Edited July 2, 2006 by HaVoC

[trfo2o]

space monkey protectors! weird, Are they from the Army?

[PariahWolf]

Judging from the part I've circled I'm certain it's not a CIRAS.

You notice the CIRAS doesn't have that extra piece of fabric on the top of the cummerbun to reinforce the seam?

 

Whereas the RAV definitely does.

Also in my opinion the colour looks alot like the RAV, also I think those things on the RAVs shoulder straps are visible.

 

Of course could definitely be the predator, I've only got this picture of it.

It's got that seam reinforcement, I just don't think it looks quite right.

[keyserSOZE]

definitely a RAV! the shoulder eliminates the predator.

[IronWolf]

PariahWolf, you forgot the land version CIRAS ^^.

 

I'm also going for the RAV as the back piece looks too thin to be a pouch/ hydration carrier, that and the mags do look awfully smoke green

[PariahWolf]

Looks even less like it that the Maritine.

[boosterboy]

I'm gonna have to agree with Havoc's zipper theory, to eliminate the DBT Predator.

 

Although I haven't examined the real RAV, only the Guarder replica

 

 

Pictures are courtesy of the reviews on LF

 

We see a black wide outline, can't be a shadow

 

zippered pocket of an RAV

 

Side of DBT Predator

 

back of a DBT Predator (difference from the back of a RAV)

[PariahWolf]

The shoulder gives it away, it's almost certainly a RAV.

 

Also notice the black finishes on that picture where the zip does on the RAV, the DBT finishes lower down.

[systema]

This thread is neat...we have:

- HK416 = expensive fanboy gun

- RS enthusiasts debating on German vs. American gun engineering

- geardos solving mystery of the day

- pics of evil space monkey defenders wielding HK416

 

Most excellent!

 

I for one don't think the cost justifies the product in this case. But I guess when you're defending the explorers of the only frontier left of humankind, you just have to be stylish while doing it.

[Milla]

Ive got a DBT RBV, looks liek that, i think thats what it is.