The Israel Crisis

[expvideo]

So I'm very frustrated with Israel right now. The rocket attacks on Lebanon seem to be over the top, in my opinion. At the same time, I'm not very happy with Hezbollah for the rocket attacks on the Israelis, although Lebanon has lost far more civilians.

 

I personally am affected by this, as I have friends with family on both sides. One of my close friends has two little sisters in Lebanon, one of which (15 years old) is probably going to lose her arm, due to shrapnel. My friend hasn't been able to contact her sisters in several days. I also have friends with family in Israel, who are also worried about the safety of their loved ones.

 

I just want to see what an international opinion is, since I pretty much don't listen to American media anymore. Thanks for taking the time.

[Connery]

*looks at watch and starts counting how long it takes PILMAN to get here*

[guanaconaco]

Hezbollah definitely crossed the line... Not to mention they made a HUGE mistake, they attacked Israel (Which I support), it's as if they kicked an ant hill, man are they in for some trouble.

[expvideo]

Hezbollah definitely crossed the line... Not to mention they made a HUGE mistake, they attacked Israel (Which I support), it's as if they kicked an ant hill, man are they in for some trouble.

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But does that make it ok to bomb lebanon's civilians? I mean, I'll agree that Hezbollah through the first punch, but a lot of innocent civilians are being killed and injured as a result.

Another analogy here is this: It's like you're friend is being stupid and shooting at a bee hive with a paintball gun, and you get attacked by hornets for standing next to him. Sure, it's inevitable in that situation, but I'd like to think that the Israelis have a little more sense and compassion than our hypothetical hornets.

[teetee]

Hezbollah's rocket attacks have only become a major issue after Israel entered Lebanese territory and started bombing the entire country. Hezbullah's rocket attacks are not justification for Israel's actions. The fact that Hezbullah captured two Israeli army members was the original reason for this conflict. I remain failing to see how capturing two enlisted army members is justification for over 350 civilian deaths.

 

Regardless, this thread won't last long.

[expvideo]

Hezbollah's rocket attacks have only become a major issue after Israel entered Lebanese territory and started bombing the entire country. Hezbullah's rocket attacks are  not justification for Israel's actions. The fact that Hezbullah captured two Israeli army members was the original reason for this conflict. I remain failing to see how capturing two enlisted army members is justification for over 350 civilian deaths.

 

Regardless, this thread won't last long.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.

[Munitions Man]

I fully support Israel and am very happy with their response to hezbollah!

 

 

I'm tired of the Israelies being stepped on! They've always been the canary in the coal mine! I'm glad they fought back! Them Fighting back is a message to the extremist muslim sect that we will not tolerate their attacks on innocent people.

 

 

And this stuff about, "the Israelies are killing innocent civilians", well they aren't doing it purposely! Unlike the terrorists who will willingly kill their own countrymen to further their cause, they'll kill some innocent people, film it and say "the infidels did this" just to make people hate America and Israel, and divert attention from the bloodshed they cause.

 

and third, I hope Israel destroys Hezbolla! And frees the people of Lebanon!

 

 

BTW thanks for this thread

debates are fun

[guanaconaco]

Not that I'm Pro-killing civilians, it's just that Israelis live by the "eye for an eye" saying, and since the other guys killed some of their civilians... well, you get the picture.

 

*I don't approve killing INNOCENT civilians though, so don't get me wrong.

[guanaconaco]

I fully support Israel and am very happy with their response to hezbollah!

Im tired of the Israelies being stepped on! They've always been the canary in the coal mine! Im glad they fought back! Them Fighting back is a message to the extremist muuslim sect that we will not tollerate their attacks on innocent people.

And this stuff about, "the Israelies are killing innocent civilians", well they arent doing it purposely! Unlike the terrorists who will willingly kill their own countrymen to further their cause, they'll kill some innocent people, film it and say "the infidels did this" just to make people hate America and Israel, and divert attention from the bloodshed they cause.

 

and third, I hope Israel destroys Hezbolla! And frees the people of Lebonan!

BTW thanks for this thread

deabtes are fun

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I fully agree with what you say.

[expvideo]

Now before I go into this, just remember that this is a debate, and I'm not trying to flame anyone.

 

I have to disagree. I understand that Israel is under a lot of pressure and it is important that they look like a formidable opponent. However, I think Israel acts too quickly and too powerfully. I think they should have gotten approval from the UN, not just suddenly gone to war. I think they stomp around a little more than they should.

 

I was already upset with Israel for the way they treat the Palestinians. Don't think that there isn't propaganda on both sides. There is a lot about the Israelis that we don't hear from American media. The Israeli military has basically gone WAY over the line in fighting the Palestinians. Now that they're retaliating on Lebanon by bombing civilians, without getting approval from the UN, I think they're doing a little too much ###### waving.

 

And again, let's remember that Israel started the rocket attacks, not Hezbollah, so the eye-for-an-eye phylosophy is not really evening out the way it should.

[teetee]

I fully support Israel and am very happy with their response to hezbollah!

 

I'm tired of the Israelies being stepped on! They've always been the canary in the coal mine! I'm glad they fought back! Them Fighting back is a message to the extremist muslim sect that we will not tolerate their attacks on innocent people.

 

And this stuff about, "the Israelies are killing innocent civilians", well they aren't doing it purposely! Unlike the terrorists who will willingly kill their own countrymen to further their cause, they'll kill some innocent people, film it and say "the infidels did this" just to make people hate America and Israel, and divert attention from the bloodshed they cause.

 

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Israel may not be killing innocent civilians purposely, but they're doing a 10x better job than the supposed terrorist who according to you are only aiming for civilians. That's over 350 Lebanese deaths to ~35 Israeli deaths. Who cares about the numbers though, since Israeli officials go on TV and say it's not on purpose...

 

Psst, since when have Israelies been 'picked on'? All the generous US funding and one of the strongest armed forces in the world is hardly 'underdog' in my opinion.

[Lord Krell]

These terrorists set up in civilian areas to launch their attacks against a demcratic society. Israel has to respond and sadly this will meen that some civilians will be killed. It isn't the fault of Israel, its the fault of the terrorists who ar bringing suffering to the very people they so say want to protect.

 

Its nice to see a country that has the balls to take on the terrorist threat without the liberal taking over with their "its against the terrorists' human rights" ######.

 

GO ISRAEL.

[snowman]

Not that I'm Pro-killing civilians, it's just that Israelis live by the "eye for an eye" saying, and since the other guys killed some of their civilians... well, you get the picture.

 

*I don't approve killing INNOCENT civilians though, so don't get me wrong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This sounds more like a Life for an eyelash... Remember it all started over the kidnap of a couple of soldiers, NOT unprovoked rocket attacks on Haifa (which started AFTER Israel bombed Beirut).

 

It's a pity someone can't find a way to develop an extremist virus and wipe out all the hate filled psychos on BOTH sides and then people in Israel and Lebanon could just get on with living there lives...

 

There you are Mr Gates, spend your billions on something that would REALLY help humanity...

 

Cheers

 

PS I wonder if anyone siding one way or the other is doing so on sectarian grounds?

[teetee]

Its nice to see a country that has the balls to take on the terrorist threat without the liberal taking over with their "its against the terrorists' human rights" ######.

 

GO ISRAEL.

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Killing hundreds of civilians, abusing human rights, disregard for the Geneva conventions.

 

What's your definition of terrorist.

[Lord Krell]

I think the abduction of two Israeli nationals by a illegal terrorist orgonisation which is being given free run of a country is justification for war, don't you.

 

You can not talk with terrorists, the second you do they have one. The only reasonable thing you can do with groups like Hezbollah is wipe them off Gods green earth. A few civilans will be killed, yes, but that happens in war, i don't know why everyone is so supprised and shocked. In war innocents die. The important thing to remember is once Lebanon is free from these terrorists it will be a safer country.

 

I know its sad that civilans die but its not like they didn't have warning from Israel. Sometimes the ends to justify the means and i think currently this situation does.

[Munitions Man]

Since when have the Israelies been picked on? I dunno, what would you think if hitler in a headscharf was launching rockets into your city day by day?

 

Oh and when you start talking about the amount of people who have been killed, just remember those numbers are since Israel started fighting Hezbollah again, and dont count the number of Israelies who have killed by suicide bombs, Katushka rockets, and IEDs. And then tell me who the real murderers are.

 

The Israelies are being attacked because they are against the extreme far views of the terrorists, they did nothing to Hezbollah or the Al Aqsa martyrs or the Taliban.

[Lord Krell]

Killing hundreds of civilians, abusing human rights, disregard for the Geneva conventions.

 

What's your definition of terrorist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A terrorist is one who uses violence or the threat of violence against innocent people to cuase fear to bring people into line with their ideology. Hezbollah is doing this, they attacked first by abducting the Israeli nationals. Israel responded by attacking Hezbollah.

 

Israel is acting in self defence, they did not ask for this fight. They are not attacking civlians on purpose to cause fear, they end up killing civilans because the cowards in Hezbollah mingle in with civilans so they can go about their business. Hezbollah uses the very people they claim to want to protect as human shields.

 

So long story short....

 

Abducting foreign nationals... terrorism

 

Using people as human shields... terrorism

 

Launching attacks against civlian targets with the single goal of causing civilian deaths... terroism

 

Attacking terrorists who hide in civilain populated areas in response to attacks on your nation... A just cause.

[teetee]

The Israelies are being attacked because they are against the extreme far views of the terrorists, they did nothing to Hezbollah or the Al Aqsa martyrs or the Taliban.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Last I checked invading and occupying foreign territories was frowned upon. I doubt people would blow themselves up just because Israelies were merely opposing their views.

 

As for the numbers, if you have credible comparisons please do show. We can make incredible claims all day or pose hypothetical questions, but fact is in the past two weeks Israel has killed 350 civilians to Hezbullahs 35.

[Lord Krell]

If i recall those territories were captured after the Arab nations declared war on Israel. Once again Israel didn't ask for a fight, occupying those areas as a buffer zone between them and their enemies seems fair to me.

 

Israel is a peaceful and most of all democratic nation. It only attacks when attacked or threatend, it is the right of every free nation to do the same.

[teetee]

Abducting foreign nationals... terrorism

 

Using people as human shields... terrorism

 

Launching attacks against civlian targets with the single goal of causing civilian deaths... terroism

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Israel does the above. Often.

 

Israel has in jail over 800 foreign women and children who have not been put on trial, these are the individuals Hezbullah wanted to negotiate the two Israeli soldiers for.

 

Israel has repeatedly used Palestinians as human shields in the past, forcing an October 2005 ruling by the Supreme Court of Israel against the use of Palestinians as human shields by Israeli Military.

http://www.adalah.org/eng/humanshields.php#

 

Israel has been using cluster-bombs in Lebanon. Cluster bombs are far more indiscriminate than the Katushkas you've been hearing about on CNN, and cause far more civilian casualties (as is proven by the casualty numbers).

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2006/07/24/isrlpa13798.htm

 

Any more? Humour me

[Munitions Man]

Boo hoo, we invaded Lebanon. Look if it is going to stop an evil regime like Hezbollah you bet im gonna invaid your country! im gonna save you from their oppresive regime. Yes many consider it facist and evil but it's what must be done, unless of course you want the Israelies to get bombarded with rockets?

 

Yes salt isn't pleasent on a wound, but you do it anyway to stop infections.

 

Second, yes , Islamic extremists, note the word extremists , will blow up someone because of differing belifs. In the extremist Korans it doesnt say kill an infidel if he attacks you, it says basically, kill the infidel.

 

And third, blame Hezbollah for the deaths of innocent civilians. They're the ones using innocent civilians as sheilds. They build munitions dumps next to schools because they dont care what happens to civilians.

 

also if you notice, the site you posted adalah.org, is a Palestinian site. Now if it was a jewish site then maybe i'd belive it. It's like a Nazi writing something about a Soviet, what do you think they'll say?

[Ubar]

the site you posted adalah.org, is a Palestinian site. Now if it was a jewish site then maybe i'd belive it

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lol

[teetee]

Second, yes , Islamic extremists, note the word extremists , will blow up someone because of differing belifs. In the extremist Korans it doesnt say kill an infidel if he attacks you, it says basically, kill the infidel.

 

 

also if you notice, the site you posted adalah.org, is a Palestinian site. Now if it was a jewish site then maybe i'd belive it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

There is only one version of the Koran. Please get a clue, and we can carry on this debate

 

 

Palestinian or not, the ruling is real. Sorry to dissapoint youre extremist biased views: "Although in some recent decisions – the “human shields” case and some of the petitions regarding the West Bank Barrier – the Israeli Supreme Court proved that it is capable of ruling against the government on security-related issues, it seems that in cases like this, where secret evidence is involved, the Court will invariably rule for the State. "

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2006/05/...-combatants.php

 

Or is the University of Pittsburg also an incredulous resource?

[Lord Krell]

Hezzbolla might want to "negotiate" with Israel but you should never ever negotiate with terrorists, once they find a way to get their own way they will keep doing it. Before you know it Hezzbollah would be abducting people left right and centre.

 

Abducting foreign nationals for the sole purpose of either killing them as an example or using them as a bargening chip is very diffrent to holding suspected terrorists (who are fed and treated humainly). You must remember that Israel is currently at a state of war with palistine and in war combatents and suspected civilains can (and are) be detainted. The british do it, the Americans do it. Just because a suspcted terrorist is a woman or child doesn't meen they are not cappable of carrying out terrorist acts. Since they declare themselves as combatents they do not require a trial.

 

Cluster weapons are a legtimiate weapon, when you look at the terrain and enviorment the terrorists are operating from they are one of the most effecting weapons to use. Civilains will die, but thats a sad fact of war.

 

As for the human shields israel used your right that wasn't really on. But that has now been dealt with and israel appologised. Technically however those people could be seen as Israeli nationals as the right of palistine as a nation is somewhat a grey area. But still yes it wasn't on and has been corrected. No nation obeys the Geneva convention 100%, in the UK we still use "children" in combat roles.

[teetee]

lol

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4314898.stm

 

 

lololol...