The Israel Crisis

[Ubar]

uh, I was laughing at him, but now i shall mock you too.

 

lol

[PariahWolf]

As for the human shields israel used your right that wasn't really on. But that has now been dealt with and israel appologised. Technically however those people could be seen as Israeli nationals as the right of palistine as a nation is somewhat a grey area. But still yes it wasn't on and has been corrected. No nation obeys the Geneva convention 100%, in the UK we still use "children" in combat roles.

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No we don't

[Lord Krell]

So here is a question for all of you terrorist Sympathisers out there. What should Israel do? negotiate with a terrorist orgonisation. or is back and let its cities be hit time and time again by rockets.

 

Hey at least this way they wouldn't be killing anyone, right. And when the Iranian tanks role in to their borders i guess they should just lie down because they might kill someone if they defended themselves.

[Lord Krell]

No we don't

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17 year olds in the British army can be sent into areas where there is a chance they will engage in fire with the enemy.

 

As stated by the UN in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child...

 

"State Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons below the age of 18 do not take a direct part in hostilities"

[teetee]

So here is a question for all of you terrorist Sympathisers out there. What should Israel do? negotiate with a terrorist orgonisation. or is back and let its cities be hit time and time again by rockets.

 

Hey at least this way they wouldn't be killing anyone, right. And when the Iranian tanks role in to their borders i guess they should just lie down because they might kill someone if they defended themselves.

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Haven't looked at a map lately at all have you Iranian tanks would have to cross Iraq, which is full of US tanks.

 

Israel could negotiate with Hezbullah, moreso as a way to buy time while cooperating with the Lebanese military to locate the 2 soldiers. The Mossad can find just about anything they want, being one of the most competent intelligence agencies in the world. As for negotiations, I think it would be more than fair to Israel to release the imprisoned children in exchange for the two soldiers.

[Munitions Man]

my view will surely be considered facist, extremist, but this is only because I am right.

 

 

maybe if you watch this you will realize why these terrorists need to be eliminated

 

The twin towers

 

now tell me how peaceful and nagotiable those subhumans seem after seeing that. Over 2000 people died that day, and those were the same kind of people who are killing Israelies

 

ya the Israelies aint perfect, but they sure aint as dangerous as the terrorists

[Steve Pearson]

I think it's about time the mighty Chuck Norris stepped in and gave BOTH sides a damn good thrashing. Both sides are guilty of murder. Both sides are racially bigotted and both sides are guilty of human rights and international law abuses.

 

"Oi, Israel/Hezzbollah. If you want to wipe each other out, crack on. Just keep the noise down if you don't mind"

 

I watched a news report on BBC2 news night about a week ago and there was this old fella, a holocaust survivor, who believes that all the Palestinians and Lebonese(sp?) should be wiped out like flies.

 

Anybody recognise those kinds of words from another era of world history?

 

A Red Cross report done a few years ago (2002 I think) calculated that there has been more Israeli civillians killed by terrorism since the late 70's than any other country on Earth from the same time scale (although Iraq is very quickly beginning to take that title from them). It also stated that Israel has committed more human rights abuses and war crimes against the Palestinian people since that report than any other country to date (up to the date of the report).

 

Bottom line: If they want to wipe each other out, let them, just don't drag the rest of us into your (Israel/Palestine/Hezzbollah) pathetic little squabbles. And do keep the noise down, some of us are trying to listen to the Archers.

 

Oh, and I think both sides are religious extremists..............

 

 

.........................................

 

 

A funny thing happened shortly after 9/11. Large numbers of Americans stopped donating money to Sinn Fein *cough*IRA*cough.

 

Hmm, I wonder why. Had they finally realised terrorism is not a nice thing to fund?

[Lord Krell]

I have looked at the map thankyou. Instead of making smart arsed comments how about adressing the issues. I was making a reference to the fact Iran is fighting a proxy war with israel and that in relality they are at war. From now on i will no longer use metaphors as you clearly find them confusing.

 

Now back on topic. So you basically agree with giving in to terrorist demands? Wonderful, so next time somebody is captured in Iraq or Afghanistan should we just all pack up and leave like they demand?

 

What you fail to realise is that once you give in to terrorists they know how to get what thwy want. They will then carry on doing what has worked before in order to achieve their goals.

[snowman]

Hezzbolla might want to "negotiate" with Israel but you should never ever negotiate with terrorists, once they find a way to get their own way they will keep doing it. Before you know it Hezzbollah would be abducting people left right and centre.

 

Abducting foreign nationals for the sole purpose of either killing them as an example or using them as a bargening chip is very diffrent to holding suspected terrorists (who are fed and treated humainly). You must remember that Israel is currently at a state of war with palistine and in war combatents and suspected civilains can (and are) be detainted. The british do it, the Americans do it. Just because a suspcted terrorist is a woman or child doesn't meen they are not cappable of carrying out terrorist acts. Since they declare themselves as combatents they do not require a trial.

 

Cluster weapons are a legtimiate weapon, when you look at the terrain and enviorment the terrorists are operating from they are one of the most effecting weapons to use. Civilains will die, but thats a sad fact of war.

 

As for the human shields israel used your right that wasn't really on. But that has now been dealt with and israel appologised. Technically however those people could be seen as Israeli nationals as the right of palistine as a nation is somewhat a grey area. But still yes it wasn't on and has been corrected. No nation obeys the Geneva convention 100%, in the UK we still use "children" in combat roles.

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Hezbollah ARE terrorists (well, in my book), but the civilians living in Haifa and Beirut are NOT.

 

Hezbollah seized some Israeli soldiers (I feel sorry for them and their families, the Israeli government's macho tactics ensure they'll never get home except in a body bag, I suspect - But, heh, at least those well protected political figures won't look weak, will they?) and Israel's response was bombing civilian targets in Beirut - Disproportionate? I'll let everyone else decide...

 

Of course you CAN negotiate with Terrorists - People do it every day, except this week they're 'freedom fighters' (ETA in Spain, Islamic Fundamentalists in Afghanistan, Warlords in Africa, the IRA in Ireland, Saddam for God's sake...), but next week, they're terrorists and we should wipe them off the face of the earth (and if the side effect is a hike in oil prices worldwide, then so be it...)

 

What's the REAL difference between Hezbollah and the Provos? Not a lot, but the UK government negotiated with them (behind the scenes) and we don't have Irish terrorists bombing UK pubs anymore.

 

The Israeli's, too, have done prisoner exchange deals in the past and the area has been more stable than for 50 years.

 

It just seems that the current Israeli government, emboldened by a warmongering US administration, feel that killing Lebanese civilians (and getting their own civilians killed in return) is a better approach than that of Peace.

 

Still, we all know, now, that giving Peace a chance will lead to the downfall of civilisation, so I guess war it must be...

 

Cheers

[Ubar]

my view will surely be considered facist, extremist, but this is only because I am right.

maybe if you watch this you will realize why these terrorists need to be eliminated

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palestine blew up the wtc!

 

[Munitions Man]

No palestine didn't! Bush did right? No it was rumsfeld!

 

 

You cant nagotiate with terrorists, the Israelies tried when they gave up Gaza and part of the west bank. But the rockets didn't stop, this clearly shows that it is impossible to nagotiate terrorists.

[teetee]

I have looked at the map thankyou. Instead of making smart arsed comments how about adressing the issues. I was making a reference to the fact Iran is fighting a proxy war with israel and that in relality they are at war. From now on i will no longer use metaphors as you clearly find them confusing.

 

Now back on topic. So you basically agree with giving in to terrorist demands? Wonderful, so next time somebody is captured in Iraq or Afghanistan should we just all pack up and leave like they demand?

 

What you fail to realise is that once you give in to terrorists they know how to get what thwy want. They will then carry on doing what has worked before in order to achieve their goals.

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Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. Make a stupid statement, get a stupid response. You mentinoed Iranian tanks, sorry if you got offended that I pointed out that it's an impossibility

 

Ahem... did I say the right thing to do is agree with terrorists demands outright? Not at all. When the terrorist's demands are to release children who are imprisoned with no trial, then absolutely those demands should be granted. Those demands should be honoured regardless of who they are made by.

 

What you fail to realize, is maybe a group that abducts 2 soldiers to release imprisoned children and women... isn't a terrorist act.

 

Time to be productive, enjoy this debate.

[The Chef]

Personally, both sides are wrong, and both are far too stubborn to admit that they are very wrong.

The poor lebanese people are caught up in the middle of all this rubbish.

 

My reasoning. And my personal view is that despite all the claptrap that has been spouted by both sides, they all just want an excuse to kick ten shades out of each other.

 

Hezbollah capture some Isreali soldiers, supposedly to use as bargaining chips... foolish, since when has any government given in to such demands?? not ever that I can remember, because to do so would open the floodgates to such activity.

I think Hezbollah know this, and knew what the Isreali reaction would be, in order to use the spiralling tit for tat attacks on each other to escalate violence.

 

The Isrealis have been handed the perfect oppurtunity to go and pound the wahoonies out of Lebanon citing the 'oh we are such a downtrodden society we must look after ourselves' line. Rubbish, they have one of the most sophisticated armies in the world, supplied by the yanks. they have smart weapons, a superb intelligence network and a good special forces unit.

They could easily mount co-ordinated and pinpoint attacks on Hezbollah, but instead they use artillery and stuff killing innocent civillians. Justifiable... hardly.

Lets just rocket a convoy of Red Cross vehicles, they really look like Hezbollah trucks.

 

So whilst both sides are claiming to be holier that thou, they are both mindless idiots hell bent on violence because they are so stuffed up their own backsides through religious indoctrination that they cannot beleive that other people have the right to beleive in something different and have the same right to live with their own beleifs.

 

If I were being ultra cynical, I would say that this whole shabang has the undertones of the American government being fully aware of Isreals stance and sitting back hoping that the tinderbox will ignite, bringing in Iran and Syria giving the Americans the perfect excuse to go and bomb the life out of these countries (which they have been wanting to do for ages but havent had the excuse). But this wave of public sentement has given ol' George W a bit of a headache.

 

Isreal are being international bullies and need to be brought into check, but they feel (or know) that they have sympathy and an almost green light to carry on from the Americans, and Hezbollah are just downright stupid because they carry on seeing the devastation that is being caused to their country.

 

WHO I THINK IS TO BLAME:

 

The international community for not stepping in sooner and telling both sides to wind their necks in.

 

Violence is not the key. and the land around Jerusalem belongs to no 'one' religion. Get a grip people, Christianity, Judaism and Islam all stem from the same thing. Its just three different outlooks on the same set of events.

Who has the right to say they are the correct ones and everyone else is wrong.

 

Just a brainwashed lack of religious intolerance and narrowmindedness.

 

 

eidted to correct the religious terminology. Its Islam not Muslim, fool....

[Munitions Man]

What you fail to realize, is maybe a group that abducts 2 soldiers to release imprisoned children and women... isn't a terrorist act.

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Well they're using fear to make the Israelies give up their land

 

I belive that is... an act of terrorism

[expvideo]

And third, blame Hezbollah for the deaths of innocent civilians. They're the ones using innocent civilians as sheilds. They build munitions dumps next to schools because they dont care what happens to civilians.

 

also if you notice, the site you posted adalah.org, is a Palestinian site. Now if it was a jewish site then maybe i'd belive it. It's like a Nazi writing something about a Soviet, what do you think they'll say?

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3 things:

-It's stupid to say that only an israeli site would be credible and a palestinian one wouldn't.

-Can we stay away from the nazis and hitler in this conversation? They're really uneducated refferences that no one will take seriously.

-"they build munitions dumps next to schools" has been an excuse for any invading country to use. They all use that excuse. The US uses that excuse. It's a crock of *beep*. We all say it, and it's never true. You don't send cluster bombs into civilian sectors. It's just plain evil, not to mention highly unjustified.

 

my view will surely be considered facist, extremist, but this is only because I am right.

maybe if you watch this you will realize why these terrorists need to be eliminated

 

The twin towers

 

now tell me how peaceful and nagotiable those subhumans seem after seeing that. Over 2000 people died that day, and those were the same kind of people who are killing Israelies

 

ya the Israelies aint perfect, but they sure aint as dangerous as the terrorists

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

-Heil Patriotism! What a weak debate tool! (and we killed WAY more than 2000 in retaliation, JUST counting civilian casualties)

-"but they sure aint as dangerous as the terrorists"... you mean the terrorists who have killed 1/10th the civilians the Israelis have? That makes no sense.

[Lord Krell]

Oh, and I think both sides are religious extremists

 

The Muslim extremists want a muslim state where anything that does not 100% conform to their religion is punished brutally.

 

The Israeli's want a peaceful country which although inspired by Jewish teachings all religions and even sexualities are allowed to practice their beliefs. Everyone is allowed to vote and stand for ellection. Israel is no more run by religious extremists than italy.

[Steve Pearson]

What Chef said.

 

Absolute bang on target (excuse the pun).

[Munitions Man]

yep im an evil conservative alright, just a bush bot neo con eh?

 

It saddens me how one seeks to blame one's own country for something their enemy does

 

BTW My oldest sister was fighting in Iraq, so I assume she is an evil person because she took part in the retaliation against the poor terrorists? Because well... her and her fellow soldiers apperently killed way more than 2000 civilians in retaliation.

[Basho]

*fruitcage* Hezbollah

 

Thats what I think. You cant backhand fund and assist a terrorist organisation (a simple label that puts the responsibility on `someone else`) and not expect what you are seeing.

[expvideo]

Well they're using fear to make the Israelies give up their land

 

I belive that is... an act of terrorism

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We're talking about lebanon, not palestine. And Lebanon doesn't care about Israeli land. I beleive there's a debate about the border, but we aren't talking about demanding a large amount of land. Besides, that is not the reason for any of this.

[Connery]

*still looking at watch, waiting for PILMAN to show up*

[The Chef]

Well they're using fear to make the Israelies give up their land

 

Their land?? and how did they come by this land in the first place? The country has only been going since the 60's IIRC.

 

I am not saying people dont have the right to live where they want, its just they dont have the right to claim it as their own to the detriment and exclusion of others.

[Night_raven]

The way i see it, is that Hezbollah are firing rockets into Isreal, .. yes we know it's bad.

 

BUT!

 

Isreal Attacking, .. is giving Hezbollah more excuse to fire rockets into their country.

 

 

So who wins?

 

 

No one!

[Steve Pearson]

*still looking at watch, waiting for PILMAN to show up*

 

Patience old boy, patience.

[Munitions Man]

It began in Israel with one group of terrorists and is now in Lebanon with another group of terrorists(who are probablly linked with Hamas), it started with the land my friend.

 

And it is the Israelies land because they were the ones who made it what it is, they took that god forsaken land and turned it in to a beautiful country. Plus they were there before the Palestinians were