The Israel Crisis

[Lord Krell]

So, if you can afford aircraft carriers and cruise missiles to do your killing, anything is acceptable?

 

Cheers

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There is a vast diffrence between an armed wing of a political party and the standing military of a nation with a mutli party parliment. If you fail to see this yuo are a fool.

 

 

expvideo i find that pictures like that just show you have nothing valid to add to the dicussion so type "evil + Jew" into google image search.

 

Oh and that last invasion of lebanon, that would have been when palistinian terrorists were attacking israel from there and Syria (who were effectivly running lebanon) attacked Israel yes?

[kliskey]

Lord Krell - Your facts above for Hezbollah point only to one thing - During that period - Lebanon was occupied by the so called "good" of the world - America and Israel - Hezbollah were fighting back for what they believed in. If to use Guerrilla tactics was the only way forward then so be it!

 

Using the Nazi's as an example for this case is preposterous. The Nazi's invaded Poland - Not the other way around like in Israel’s case. As the Nazi's did invade - They are in the wrong.

Petty kidnapping by one side, and then large scale invasion? I think that that is slightly unprovoked!

Lebanon are defending themselves - Why can't you see that?

Hezbollah have a Militia - They don't have major funding, nor do they have a full blown army - they have a few thousand guys running around with dodgy rockets and AK's - Israel have major support from the States, highly advanced tanks and planes - I don't see how Lebanon will win this one unless Syria or Iran intervene - This is what America wants - To draw out these so called Terrorist branches.

 

I just want to add one thing - Because I stand up for Lebanon - Does this make me a Terrorist, as that is the impression that I get from your posts

[expvideo]

Here's one from the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon

 

Then in 1989 Shaykh Abd-al-Karim Ubayd, a Hezbollah leader, was abducted by Israel.

 

Then in 1992, less than a year after Lebanon attended a Middle East Peace Conference, Shaykh Abbas al-Musawi, Secretary-General of Hezbollah, was killed by Israeli gunships

 

1993 Israel attacks AGAIN to try to destroy Hezbollah

 

1996 Israel bombs beriut. They also bomb a UN base in Lebanon killing over 100 Lebanese refugees.

 

2003 Israel is believed to be behind the car bombing of a Hezbollah leader in Beruit

 

 

source BBC news

[Lord Krell]

I did not refer to WWII i was pointing out that real political parties don't have armed wings. The nazi party during the Weimar Republic had a militia they used to intimidate.

 

I would not call them dodgy rockets and AK's, the rockets they are using have a hell of a range and aer faily acurate. Of course they would be since they are supplied by Iran.

 

So tell me how Hezbollah are defending lebonan. Israel occupires none of their land are responding to an armed attack against its military by a terrorist group who the goverment have no intention of bringing under contol. Tell me at what point does israel use force, when 100 people have been kidnaped, 1000? Where do you draw the line?

[Connery]

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[The Chef]

Come on now guys.....

 

Can I suggest that if you are going to post statistics to illustrate a point, please can you do a tiny bit more research and post the same statistics for the other side too.

 

Just in the interest of fairness and impartiality.

 

Taken from BBC webiste as of 20th July

The death toll reaches at least 306 people in Lebanon and 31 in Israel.

[Connery]

[nobody]

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Zionism is a jewish movement not the hatred of jews or isreal like that picture implies

[Connery]

Zionism is a jewish movement not the hatred of jews or isreal like that pictue implies

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[expvideo]

I would not call them dodgy rockets and AK's, the rockets they are using have a hell of a range and aer faily acurate. Of course they would be since they are supplied by Iran.

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Well according to the Seattle Times, and to be fair, you could be right and they could be wrong.... the majority of Hezbollah's rockets have a 10 mile range and the longest range rocket has a 50-100 mile range, but they don't have many of those, and they're much larger (harder to move)

 

Or was I missunderstanding what "a hell of a range" means. Because they do fire much farther than bottle rockets and roman candles. And almost 5 times as far as bullets!

[expvideo]

Zionism is a jewish movement not the hatred of jews or isreal like that pictue implies

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You're misunderstanding the picture, that's not what it implies at all.

[snowman]

There is a vast diffrence between an armed wing of a political party and the standing military of a nation with a mutli party parliment. If you fail to see this yuo are a fool.

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No need to get personal - I could call you a moron for swallowing right wing propaganda wholesale, but that wouldn't be discussion, would it?

 

Of course, there's a difference, but the inappropriate use of force against innocent civilians is wrong, full stop, isn't it?

 

Or ARE you saying that if such action is carried out by a state (one YOU approve of, of course) it's acceptable?

 

If so, I'll leave others to judge the foolishness of our relative standponts...

 

Cheers.

[billymak]

So I'm very frustrated with Israel right now.

 

I just want to see what an internet opinion is

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corrected

[doc_newstead]

Come on now guys..... blah blah blah

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I was you numpty. Matey said "a few broken windows" were caused by the rockets on Haifa. Is that impartial is it?

[Lord Krell]

No need to get personal - I could call you a moron for swallowing right wing propaganda wholesale, but that wouldn't be discussion, would it?

 

Of course, there's a difference, but the inappropriate use of force against innocent civilians is wrong, full stop, isn't it?

 

Or ARE you saying that if such action is carried out by a state (one YOU approve of, of course) it's acceptable?

 

If so, I'll leave others to judge the foolishness of our relative standponts...

 

Cheers.

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I don't believe Israel is using inappropriate force against civiliains. These terrorists whose lebanon's govermen is incapable of doing anything about hide in civlian populations. To target them civilians will die. It is one of those cases where there will be some justifiable deaths of innocents in order for security.

 

If Israel were to target civilians out of pure spite then yes, thats wrong. But they are not.

[Connery]

[Psaldorn]

I don't tink Israel should exist. Yeah Hitler killed lots of Jews, but he also illed Gypsies and, well, you get the idea. Reparations, fine. United Nations saying that that then entitles them to a country and plonking some new lines on a map which then leads to peoples houses being bulldozed.. did they not think about what the outcome would be? (And i know it's Lebanon, but you can see why they'd be peeved at what happened to the Palestinians - if there's other Lebanon/Israel stuff then it must have happened post-Israel and probbaly is related somehow)

 

I say this becuase that's what it stems from, if you keep stepping back, if the Israeli Jews lived with the Arabs then there would be no Govt vs Govt war and the mingling of civilians would not make carpet bombing such a tempting retribution tactic (or just impossible as there is no Side A Air Force or Side B Air Force)

 

If anyone had any sense they'd see that the cycle of "an eye for an eye" leaves everyone blind. The way Israel could prove it was more 'civilised' is not to use F-16s to blow up houses but to.. wait for it.. act civilised! Lebanon could do the same, but they were there first and are sort of allowed to be angry that this Citadel has been plonked near them.

 

If you go back far enough it's Englands fault anyway, divvying it up to lots of warlords.. why can't they just talk, agree to stop fighting and tear downthe giant concrete walls, mmm? Peace through violence won't work here. Jews would be too stubborn to leave what they claim is land predetermined for them. Arabs were there first. DEAL WITH IT. State of Palestine and Israel.. no seperation and mixed population, it's going to be the only way to stop the hatred.

[Lord Krell]

Arabs were there first. DEAL WITH IT.

 

Actually historically Jews were there fist.

[Connery]

[Psaldorn]

Actually historically Jews were there fist.

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And left/Were ousted.

 

I wouldn't like it if Italians (Romans) came back and demanded we gave them London (Londinium).

 

Edit: Been playing too much Rome: Total War, does it show?

[Lord Krell]

viper2681 if you are going to do nothing but post pictures and otherwise distract from what is an intresting debate would you mind, you know...

 

*fruitcage* off

[Lord Krell]

And left/Were ousted.

 

I wouldn't like it if Italians (Romans) came back and demanded we gave them London (Londinium).

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And that Arabs were ousted after WWII. Works both ways you see.

[Psaldorn]

Yeah.. excuse me if that sounds a little.. idiotic. You'd be OK if I moved into your house and just said "Ousted"?

 

It's not like the Jews amassed and went back to claim Jerusalem after the diaspora. Why weren't the Jews given a section of Berlin or some German city? Oh no.. Hitler killed them so we give them some of the Middle East.. that makes sense. Tough luck Middle Eastians, Jerusalem is so good the Jews want it back!

 

Pffht.

 

Edit: Were talking 80 CE/1950's AD We can't go back and change stuff from hundreds of years ago, but we could try to stop stuff like it happening again. See; Ensuing constant wars after Israel was established

[Lord Krell]

But as i just said the Jews were there before the Arabs so why are they not allowed back. Again it becomes one of those intresting situations where there is no clear line.

[Robot 2000]

So Israel is allowed to respond to a bunch of maniacs with some 50 year old Russian hardware by using everything short of nuclear weapons and slaughtering hundreds of innocent people?

 

Fine.

 

Just don't expect the next generation of Palestinians, Lebanese, etc to be peace loving hippies either.

 

Does no-one wonder where terrorists come from? They aren't born that way. The actions of Israel and Western countries are largely to blame for the hatred against them.

 

All this ###### about the Koran telling Muslims to kill Jews is just religious ######. If you bomb their houses and kill their wives and children and brothers and sisters, do you think they're going to send you a thank you note? No, they're going to reach for the nearest Kalashnikov.

 

If, on the other hand, you found some way of taking care of terrorists without bombing bridges, power stations, blocks of flats, hospitals (yes, all those well known articles of terrorist infrastructure, not at all necessary to the running of a modern country ) etc (how about using those much vaunted "special forces" everyone obsesses over in airsoft?) you might stand a chance of not pissing everybody off.