CQB corner

[101matt1]

Well i have done limited CQB but i can put up a good idea of things you want to have. This is more MOUTish type

SMG- i have an MP5k which i have not yet to use, but my mc51 has served well. While i detest it most of the world uses some type of armalite m4, which means you have a gun that is kinda good at range and kinda good indoors. Im more of a have a gun that sux at one type but roxorz at the other. Hence G3, and MP5k. Not at the same time, yet.

Gun accessories-Mag Clamps, Magpulls, Buttstock Mag Pouches, Cheap Star Mags

Novel Ideas(or not)-buy star locaps so when u are playing your reload time doesnt consist of worrying about the empty mag. My friend has an m4 with the magwell filed down so the mag will simply drop out. Thats it dont worry about it, put your name on the bottom or spray paint it some wild color. This drops the reloading time to half. If you dont have this option, then i suggest a Rolly Polly large on your first line(belt) not because you need the size but sometimes the medium i have trouble finding the hole in a hurry. You can make magpulls with paracord easy, one guy i know made them completely from duct tape. Or you can get a 3 pack for like $5. Easily reachable mags. Tactical Tailor has the mags which has the bungee retention, hence no flap you have to pop open. Always have the direction the bullets would be pointing going to your strong side. When picked up properly this elimnates having to flip the mag with your hand. This is more or less a problem depending the shape of the mag(ak-duh, m4,g3-maybe not so duh) I dont find that you need a whole bunch of mags, i shoot semi indoors so i can make it with 6 100 round mags for a while. Get the most simple vest unless you are at an extended op which requires other items. A simple rig which has 3 or 4 double mag pouches and 2 larg utility pouches it perfect. That with a small camelbak(2L Sabre) is perfect. Second, take all that ###### off your airsoft guns unless its a vertical grip. Torches are fine at night, but all the other cute milsim stuff you guys have, like scopes on a m4 going 350fps, take it off, u just need basic iron sights for these distances(as if you ever need scopes) strip that gun down to exactly what you need. This is whyi favor Marui stock guns. They shoot 280 fps which i Cqb is perfect, the maru smgs have little creak due to their length, and they are lightweight so u are carrying as little as possible. Get a 1 point sling or a sling that directly attaches to the vest. This is to let you let go of the main gun and draw the side arm without worrying. The safariland holster is cool i guess but a good ol HSGI will do u. I see alot of guys wearing thier thigh holsters in the niddle of the thigh or lower. That is ridiculous. If you cant reach your sidearm standing up using only your hand something is wrong. Seeing guys contorting sideways to pull a pistol is silly. I draw my pistol and in my other hand draw another magazine in the begininning, so you dont have to go back down to get it. DONT DROP pistol mags, most cant take the abuse, dump pouches or those large util pouches are good for this use. The only other thing i can thing of is just think light, you can have an advantage in you mobility alone, take all that ###### you dont need off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whoa!!! You are really serious about this aren't you? How long did it take you to type that?

[Sinner101GR]

Well i have done limited CQB ...blahblahblahblah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

....simplistic, not wholly correct, but I guess it would work for some of the newer guys wanting to get in, but as youve said, youve got limited CQB stuff...

 

so, Ill post my experiences in CQB.

 

First off, there are several ways to go about CQB, the SWAT way, or the military way.

 

1st: SWAT...

Generally, the idea is to get there fast, yell at the cockbag to get down on the ground, throw some distractionary devices and rush in very fast while looking like a ninja (this was dumbed way way way down...in laymans terms....) SWAT officers are generally not going to be on extended missions, they generally will be in a domestic area and they will want to focus on protecting everyone, including the perpetrator. Most teams go for scare factors, they want to disorient the Badguy (BG) with Flashbangs, smoke grenades, CS gas and other items to get him to surrender. Black is worn to scare the BG when the team enters, some teams use Woodland camo and others just use green flightsuits. SWAT teams continue to this day to use Velcro systems, but others, such as FBI, CIA and DEA other government agencies have promoted to using MOLLE kits, as seen by KC FBI SWAT team here:

(I was there...)

Hes actually wearing what I am going to talk about next, armour. Get a helmet and some vest that will allow for plates to be held in. The best ones are the Velcro SWAT ones that those misc. airsoft websites sell...if you want a MOLLE rig, Diamondbacktactical is the favorite for SWAT so far, but Ive seen RAVs being used and now Eagle has put out non releasable CIRAS rigs for the Government. When dealing with your loadout, the first thing to note, those assualt vests are ###### and the cross draws are even worse. Keep your mags to the front on your vest. Have a belt with a holster on there, no need to keep the pistol in an area that could use some more mags. On the leg area, thats where you want to keep distractionary devices and other tools for what you need. It all really depends on how far you want to go with your setup.

 

 

NOW, onto Mil, CQB, and boy there are a lot of ways to doing it...

theres simplistic

to hardcore

note: both pics are airsofters pics.

 

Youll want a second line which is your vest, and a first line, which if your belt.

The vest for a military setup should be MOLLE, the assualt vests are, as said previously, ######. Youll again want to keep your Mags up front, but this time, youll want GP pouches and other items to get the job done. Wirecutters, multitools, smoke grenades, gas mask, water, radios, and mission essential stuff. Some guys even use big ol sledgehammers on the back. On the first line, youll want something on your legs, a holster, more mag pouches or a drop leg platform to put more gear on. Body armour, helmets and goggles are basically going to be required, and if you truly get into this sport, you can really have fun with your gear and the way you personalize your setup. Morale patches are fun to own as well. For your weapons, any pistol will do, but keep your gun short, less than 14 inches long. I personally use a SHorty gun that you can see in the Armalite thread. your gun will want an optic and nothings better than the EOtech, but the aimpoints are fantastic too and my personal choice. Get a flashlight as well, there are a lot, but Surefire and especially the M951 take the cake. Pentagon lights are good too, a foregrip and thats all you need. Make sure you have a rail system for the light and foregrip, but they arent required, you can go plainjane as well!

 

good loadout!

bad loadout

good loadout! (not done, but its mine...)

bad loadout (for CQB)

[Lanesracra]

You censored the faces but I can still read a name.

[Sinner101GR]

You censored the faces but I can still read a name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

not my work, I just copied and pasted, those guys rock! ( know how you can read the name too....)

 

and after all that, I get a ha!, I can read a name!!!

[Lanesracra]

Ha! I love your loadout. I want a nice vest like that, but I have to settle for this.

[Dizzy]

bad loadout

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OI! That's my loadout! And let me assure you it is VERY effective if used correctly! (Ask Janno if you don't believe me )

[Sinner101GR]

OI! That's my loadout! And let me assure you it is VERY effective if used correctly! (Ask Janno if you don't believe me  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I had one when i started, its not good for CQB at all....ever

[Azulsky]

Well i was just posting stuff i have tried out and seen other successfully try out. Sorry Blarney if i dont have the exact geardo aspect as you do. Like i said the most important peice of advice is to be as light as you can afford. The rest was just stuff i have tried out and have come out good with, things others i know have tried and it worked, then things that i have tried and failed at.

 

I see the angle that Blarney comes from. He is right in saying that my ideas are not formulated from testing out the highdollar and gucci gear. I dont really agree with the CIRAS and the Larger Plate Carriers because i play in a climate that is commonly >100C and >100% humidity but i guess everyones perspective is unique, mine is keeping yourself light and active. I can give a more detailed idea of a simple CQB setup

 

 

Riggers Belt

Holster

pistol mag pouches

dump pouch

Chest Harness(simple one)

Mags with magpuls(homemade or bought, i dont like hicaps)

Camelbak 2L or 3L(pers pref, i like the streamlined ones with no xtra pockets)

Some kind of simple sling(vest attached or 1 point)

gloves(mos def)

boonie(or a helmet if its your thing)

Comfy boots(quiet ones hehe)

kneepads if u like, i want to try neoprene ones

 

Erm thats all i can think of at 11:30 my time, but i that is a setup that will get you through for a game that has rounds lasting an hour apeice. I might have missed something but im tired. /yawwwwn

[Jagdraben]

So your climate is inside the boilers of a boiler room?

 

That's the only explanation I can think of for what you just said....

[Azulsky]

No my climate is southeast Louisiana, in the summer we get 100 easy and in the 90% with humidity, you sweat and the air is so saturated it stays on you, like bleeding water, BDU's and gear are thoroughly soaked at the end of an average day. I was in Williamsburg, VA when it was 155 with heat index and it was wonderful compared to our climate.

[Sinner101GR]

Well i was just posting stuff i have tried out and seen other successfully try out. Sorry Blarney if i dont have the exact geardo aspect as you do.  Like i said the most important peice of advice is to be as light as you can afford. The rest was just stuff i have tried out and have come out good with, things others i know have tried and it worked, then things that i have tried and failed at.

 

I see the angle that Blarney comes from. He is right in saying that my ideas are not formulated from testing out the highdollar and gucci gear. I dont really agree with the CIRAS and the Larger Plate Carriers because i play in a climate that is commonly >100C and >100% humidity but i guess everyones perspective is unique, mine is keeping yourself light and active. I can give a more detailed idea of a simple CQB setup

Riggers Belt

Holster

pistol mag pouches

dump pouch

Chest Harness(simple one)

Mags with magpuls(homemade or bought, i dont like hicaps)

Camelbak 2L or 3L(pers pref, i like the streamlined ones with no xtra pockets)

Some kind of simple sling(vest attached or 1 point)

gloves(mos def)

boonie(or a helmet if its your thing)

Comfy boots(quiet ones hehe)

kneepads if u like, i want to try neoprene ones

 

Erm thats all i can think of at 11:30 my time, but i that is a setup that will get you through for a game that has rounds lasting an hour apeice. I might have missed something but im tired. /yawwwwn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Who said gucci kit? If your gonna do CQB, do it right. Now onto some critiques for ya....first, light as possible? not at all man. You want at least 10 mags, a lot of gear, heavy equipment to bang on things, helmet, plates, comms, this is why you see leg rigs and drop leg pistols more often on CQB setups than on basic grunt guys. Your hardly moving as much as youd need to in a forest enviroment, your in confined spaces and youll be getting to a knee or getting low a lot less, thus you can bulk up to get everything you damn well need for a successful mission. next, your set up suggestions. Boonies in CQB are basically wrong...CQB dictates a helmet for ballistics protection in the real world and are sometimes required at PD games to ensure you dont bump into anything. A sling is fine, but keep it at a single point or a direct attach through a Dring and some 550 cord or something. Magpulls arent needed, I hardly use mine, but they are a smart thing nonetheless. Your ideas on a chest rig limit the amount of retail youll have for pouches, will not provide protection and arent advised upon. I see your saying your time is 2330, Im at the same time zone and I dont know a place in our zone with 100% humidity, nowhere I know can do that..and I go to Florida all the time (5 times a year for a week each...). Not to be an *albatross*, but I am going to be blunt, your suggestions are not meant for a CQB zone whatsoever, at all. Sorry to be blunt, but if this is going to be a CQB thread, the accepted rules for a CQB operation need to be addressed, one of the biggest bothers for me when I play is seeing some kid in a Y harness playing in a building...but your opinions. Sorry to be harsh and all

[Jagdraben]

No my climate is southeast Louisiana, in the summer we get 100 easy and in the 90% with humidity, you sweat and the air is so saturated it stays on you, like bleeding water, BDU's and gear are thoroughly soaked at the end of an average day. I was in Williamsburg, VA when it was 155 with heat index and it was wonderful compared to our climate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You said it was ">100C" where you live. Which I would assume means one-hundred degrees Celcius. Which is the boiling temperature of water.

[dannyboy]

Blabla snippity

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Speaking of being blunt, harsh and an *albatross*, allow me.

 

Who gives a rats *albartroth*? Do whatever loadout/tactics etc work for you. FFS

[Jagdraben]

<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You both forgot FULL FACE PROTECTION.

[Azulsky]

Oh i guess i did type Celsius, my bad, and i should have typed 115 for that Williamsburg temp, i have had a long day sorry. I bow humbly before your omnipotnece.

 

Also Blarney im not saying that you should carry 4 mags on your person, i definetly think 8 magazines is mandatory(assuming maybe 100 bb's a mag).I just see it being more efficient to carry exactly what you need and nothing else on a platform that can carry just that with no wasted space.Helmets and large plate carriers for protection fall under my category of intense milsim, which is not as important for me but i respect your choice.Erm i have never operated in a group large enough for each man to require full comms setup. We have had it large enough to had a man designated as as comms to communicate with the other squad flanking. At least we agree on the sling, and you concur with the potential for magpuls.

 

I still dont follow the plate carrier=protection in the airsoft sense, unless someone is shooting over what i am used too ~300ish fps with Semi indoors, there really isnt an outdoors its a building.

 

But dannyboy is right enough of the back and forth im am done.

[dwade32]

bad loadout

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ehh... It depends, mine's slightly different,it has 2 more M4 pouches,rather than a holster. My "hardcore" loadout is this pimped-out with pouches.

 

http://optactical.com/stomve.html

 

But it'll soon be a Guarder FSVB (what ever it's called) Vest.

[dannyboy]

Must admit, I'm curious as to why a crossdraw is a bad loadout.

[El Ornitorrinco]

Must admit, I'm curious as to why a crossdraw is a bad loadout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Me as well. Would you preffer a non-crossdraw with a the pistol on the hip or thigh? You could alternatively get thigh mag holsters for your primary...

[Thechom]

I am debating the sense of using M93r AEP, and a Tanaka M629 dual gunning, am I being foolish?

[Dizzy]

Who said gucci kit?  If your gonna do CQB, do it right.  Now onto some critiques for ya....first, light as possible?  not at all man.  You want at least 10 mags, a lot of gear, heavy equipment to bang on things, helmet, plates, comms, this is why you see leg rigs and drop leg pistols more often on CQB setups than on basic grunt guys.  Your hardly moving as much as youd need to in a forest enviroment, your in confined spaces and youll be getting to a knee or getting low a lot less, thus you can bulk up to get everything you damn well need for a successful mission.  next, your set up suggestions.  Boonies in CQB are basically wrong...CQB dictates a helmet for ballistics protection in the real world and are sometimes required at PD games to ensure you dont bump into anything.  A sling is fine, but keep it at a single point or a direct attach through a Dring and some 550 cord or something.  Magpulls arent needed, I hardly use mine, but they are a smart thing nonetheless.  Your ideas on a chest rig limit the amount of retail youll have for pouches, will not provide protection and arent advised upon.  I see your saying your time is 2330, Im at the same time zone and I dont know a place in our zone with 100% humidity, nowhere I know can do that..and I go to Florida all the time (5 times a year for a week each...).  Not to be an *albatross*, but I am going to be blunt, your suggestions are not meant for a CQB zone whatsoever, at all.  Sorry to be blunt, but if this is going to be a CQB thread, the accepted rules for a CQB operation need to be addressed, one of the biggest bothers for me when I play is seeing some kid in a Y harness playing in a building...but your opinions.  Sorry to be harsh and all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh dear god... it seems that we have entirely different methods of play; that loadout just seems...wrong to me. How on earth can you run in such a get up? How can you dive behind cover, move quickly to consolidate your position, sprint up the stairs to make sure your team is the first to hold the top floor? I can't imagine playing in all that stuff. I use:

 

King Arms Crossdraw Vest

King Arms Triple Grenade Pouch (attached to the MOLLE on the back)

TM P226 x 2 (soon to have one replaced with an automatic glock and extended mag - one with taclight)

Maurzen P99 NBB (with silencer)

Custom Moscart Laucher (built into a TM tactical launcher - This is on a two point sling across my chest)

Extra P226 mags x 4

Extra P99 mag

Four Moscarts (one in the gun)

Full Face Mask

Black Turtle-Neck

Green Combat Trousers

 

...Now I accept we play a different game, but can you see how that will allow me to run my *albatross* off while still putting down a decent rain of fire. I don't need a helmet because it's airsoft so I don't need it; plus my full face protects my ears. I suppose I could add coms but again you don't really need them, and it is a distraction. Again, plates are a heavy and pointless sheet of metal/kevlar. You are going to 'die' from each shot anyway, so why bother?

 

Can I just highlight one phrase:

 

Your hardly moving as much as youd need to in a forest enviroment, your in confined spaces and youll be getting to a knee or getting low a lot less, thus you can bulk up to get everything you damn well need for a successful mission.

 

I have never played woodland, so I can't compare between. But you do move a LOT in CQB. And you ALWAYS are on one knee or low down! Basic combat doctorine stats that if you are below your oponents's level, they are much more likely to instinctively fire over your head. Getting low is how you stay alive. Plus there is always cover which is too short to hide behind without crouching, so you need to get down. Finally getting down on one knee increases accuracy; and believe it or not you really need accuracy in CQB. When only the smallest fraction of a person is sticking out from behind cover, and you'll only have one shot before they will realise and pull back, you really do need expert accuracy to take them out.

 

I play in Electrowerkz, which is very hardcore and agressive. Trust me, you WILL need to run, and dive, and crouch, and much more than that. I'm not sure what kind of place you're playing at which doesn't need that...

 

Oh, and just one thing that struck me as funny:

 

and are sometimes required at PD games to ensure you dont bump into anything.

 

What kind of an idiot has to have a helmet to ensure they don't bump into something and hurt themselves?

[Calcifer]

Hey as your all CQB people. I figure you will know where to get a nice grip for my HFC M190 I just cant find one that will fit

[Harmless]

Before people get excited, I think the difference in approaches can easily explained by on one hand a more milsim type of approach to a wider interpretation of CQB than most EW players are use too.

 

As an EW player we can get a little to specialized in our own arena which involves only interior spaces that are narrow ,poorly lit and at very close range. The games are also relatively short about 20mins. Here Hi Caps are the norm as is the rather desperate diving behind barrels planks and the plane ( yes we have plane fuselage in the site). We have no pyro or smoke (and apparently no AEGs if you're Dizzy - scary)

 

The loadout only reflect the playing arena. To say" if you're gonna do CQB do it right" misses the point. The only "right" is if you win, the rest is just personal satisfaction at the way you won, milsimish or not. Some lesson from real life are good but some just don't apply.

 

Anyway that's my approach

[ezgil]

I think some of you guys are gettin 2 types of CQB confused

 

First CQB type: Flame me not, it is a adaptation of Speedball, which is hella fun, dont get me wrong, and i dont live in the UK so i have not been to the Electrowerkz site, but i get this type of impression. The same tendencies are there that are present. You have a course which is designed for such engagements with appropriate cover provided. One team has advantage over another because of the structure of the arena. Which is fine and dandy, i dont mind the extremely fast paced action and recklessness(playing style, not safety) You dont see guys decked out in the Gucci gear or Multi Glam for this, its you a few mags and nice sneakers.

 

Then we have the second form of CQB: Which is more of a Swat/ MOUT training engagement. You see guys with gear prepped to go on for hours. Pre existing teams that train together, and use a little more advanced team tactics than "cover me" or "go left". Room clearing techniques come into play, methodical positioning and formations. This floats way over to the more milsim side of airsoft created by player who are ex mil or ex police or those who seek the geardo and milsim side of airsoft. This is something like Operation Irene(big event at Army MOUT base in US).

You get things like organized squads with weapon restrictions.

 

Look, im not saying that you are going to just play one or the other, there is definetly hybridization. Also im not saying that the MOUT isnt fun, but it goes along with the milsim. The first type has fun paramount as KrazyL said and everything else second. Its just a rant at guys who are saying one thing and other who are on the other side of the road.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

this is all you need to consider

[Sinner101GR]

Must admit, I'm curious as to why a crossdraw is a bad loadout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

i shall explain. First off you need to see that there is a holster on your vest. As stated, CQB setups prefer those pistols to be belt mounted, why you ask? In case the second line (vest) needs to be ditched. Thats why many pistols are on the belt along with their mags. That cross draw, provided you ditch it, basically takes away a pistol holster from you. The first line is to survive, the second is to fight with more than enough, the third line is to continue to be able to fight. To survive a weapon is needed. Even though this is Plastic death, the true world of CQB is rough, and putting a pistol on your belt or in your pants is not something to do.

 

next reason, your taking away from real estate for mags for your primary. They call it the primary because you will want to use that gun the most. Look slike 4 mags cannot be used thanks to this vest.

 

third, getting mags out of this vest is a *badgeress*, at least the Tac Force one I used so long ago was rather annoying. Open the flaps that cant go open face, get the mag out and get the flap back to where it was. With a Shingle or open face mag pouch, I have a weapon reloaded in seconds, with my old tacforce vest, it took me up to 20 seconds to get L&L.

 

forth. Modular setups are a no go, you are stuck with this rig, the way it is with no chance for modular setup. mags, some space for a very small utility and even the radio pouch is too big for the smallest of radios.

 

fifth, no body armour capabilities, no plates, no soft armour. nothing. CQB basically requires it in the real world...it helps saves lives.

 

Those are just a few of the ones that make this a bad rig.

 

Oh dear god... it seems that we have entirely different methods of play; that loadout just seems...wrong to me. How on earth can you run in such a get up? How can you dive behind cover, move quickly to consolidate your position, sprint up the stairs to make sure your team is the first to hold the top floor? I can't imagine playing in all that stuff. I use:

 

King Arms Crossdraw Vest

King Arms Triple Grenade Pouch (attached to the MOLLE on the back)

TM P226 x 2 (soon to have one replaced with an automatic glock and extended mag - one with taclight)

Maurzen P99 NBB (with silencer)

Custom Moscart Laucher (built into a TM tactical launcher - This is on a two point sling across my chest)

Extra P226 mags x 4

Extra P99 mag

Four Moscarts (one in the gun)

Full Face Mask

Black Turtle-Neck

Green Combat Trousers

 

...Now I accept we play a different game, but can you see how that will allow me to run my *albatross* off while still putting down a decent rain of fire. I don't need a helmet because it's airsoft so I don't need it; plus my full face protects my ears. I suppose I could add coms but again you don't really need them, and it is a distraction. Again, plates are a heavy and pointless sheet of metal/kevlar. You are going to 'die' from each shot anyway, so why bother?

 

Can I just highlight one phrase:

I have never played woodland, so I can't compare between. But you do move a LOT in CQB. And you ALWAYS are on one knee or low down! Basic combat doctorine stats that if you are below your oponents's level, they are much more likely to instinctively fire over your head. Getting low is how you stay alive. Plus there is always cover which is too short to hide behind without crouching, so you need to get down. Finally getting down on one knee increases accuracy; and believe it or not you really need accuracy in CQB. When only the smallest fraction of a person is sticking out from behind cover, and you'll only have one shot before they will realise and pull back, you really do need expert accuracy to take them out.

 

I play in Electrowerkz, which is very hardcore and agressive. Trust me, you WILL need to run, and dive, and crouch, and much more than that. I'm not sure what kind of place you're playing at which doesn't need that... 

 

Oh, and just one thing that struck me as funny:

What kind of an idiot has to have a helmet to ensure they don't bump into something and hurt themselves? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

oh yeah...you and I play an entirely different set of CQB games....a very very different set....your premise is that wholly of airsofting and not of a militaristic perspective like I play mine, but yeah...if we are going to talk CQB, we should talk CQB as in the way its meant to be done. But yeah...that is all...

[thatguy]

Blarney's reason 1 & 2 are dead on.

 

Yet another reason for NOT having a crossdraw vest: its in a BAD spot when you have to quickly transition to your pistol.

 

You pull the pistol because you can't use your primary--whether it's the rule, or a malfunction, or just because. Most people have their primary on a sling right? If you drop your primary wher is it now located? Answer: right on your chest, getting in the way of your draw on the pistol.

 

Time is a luxury in CQB--spending a lot of it slinging your prime and unf**king your second is DEFINATELY something you don't want to do.