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menatarms

China Airsoft Development

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Yes there is a need for a high price - R&D is not free for the innovator. And that is the role that TM and other Japanese manufacturers have served in. Something that CYMA did not have to pay for.

 

Enough copies come out, no more innovations would be made and therefore there will be nothing new. It's good for the consumer in the short run, but bad for the sport in the long run.

 

Not to mention putting airsoft into the price range of more potential trouble makers than there already is.

Agreed on all three points.

 

Somebody here wrote "same quality, but for cheaper". Was that person posting in the wrong thread? Ever seen a state-of-the-art TM? Heck, everybody knows I am not a TM fan, but their quality is just so on top of all that even CA still cannot quite compare in that respect ... how could CYMA and alike be on par then? Those knock-off companies just aim for the quick buck and the quality is accordingly.

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I wouldn't worry about the innovation side of things.

 

First comes copying then eventually innovation. Most people on these forums won't be anywhere near old enough to remember when japanese car companies were making "poor quality copies" of american designs. Then eventually they caught up and and then surpassed their US counterparts. I doubt that anyone would argue the fact the now the Japanese rule the reasonably priced car market and are the major innovator in that class.

 

As for clone companies "trying to make a quick buck". I don't think it's exactly like that but i agree that the quality will befit the price. They saw a gap in the market for lower priced/lower quality AEGs for people that aren't as wealthy and so some products to fill that gap.

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IMO .. light industrial manufacturing like Airsoft, field of study being mechanical engineering for a comparatively simple product .. you wouldn't have to wait long to see significant strides made in Chinese Airsoft makers. We're not talking about making a world-class car here aimed at the west (BTW -- they predict in 10 years Chinese cars will do the same thing that Korean cars did 10 years before). Proof will be in the products that are in development now and will hit the market soon (not necessarily talking about CYMA).

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clones are natural. real steal have clones so the toy counterparts have to have clones too.

 

Im sure china aeg clones will get as good in quality as tm, just give them time. Can't compete with the super low labor cost not jacking up the price of items like other places with higher wages like japan.

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If our orange juice was grown, picked and juiced by Americans, it would cost 40 bucks a carton. Same thing applies to the airsoft industry in China. Labor is cheap and they just need to work on quality control. Eventually if a company steps up and takes Chinese Airsoft to another level, we can be seeing TM/CA quality guns for half the price.

 

However, I would like to find out the workers conditions and wages. Sweat shops are a huge problem in China. Next time you go to chinatown and buy some fireworks, consider that some of them are made by 10 year old kids with a poor family.

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Chinese workers are among the hardest working in the world. OT is put in with no complaints, and in the cases of private sector empoyers -- mandatory and with not paid at OT rate. But it's a function of the supply of labor with 1.3 billion mouths to feed, and 80% of the country's interior agrarian & under-devloped, which causes a constant influx of migrant job seekers to the coastal provinces, where industries are located (better logistics & thus lower costs). That's why China is the world's factory for the conceivable future (atleast 15-20 more years before another region would take over).

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I just worry about China's health. I'm Chinese myself and I feel for the farmer rebellions, and the people that suffer under corrupt government officials. Im sure you have heard of it in Hong Kong right? Threatening farmers and over taxing them. People in China are also suffering from the pollution caused by the huge spurt in industry. The pictures would be too harsh to post on this forum of people who wanted to wash thier laundry in the river and had thier hands burned to the flesh because of the waste from new factories.

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Yes it sad.....but true.

but the chinese prefer this way....because it can earn more $$ than work in farm.

"by the way it is a little bit off topic"

 

 

 

 

I just worry about China's health. I'm Chinese myself and I feel for the farmer rebellions, and the people that suffer under corrupt government officials. Im sure you have heard of it in Hong Kong right? Threatening farmers and over taxing them. People in China are also suffering from the pollution caused by the huge spurt in industry. The pictures would be too harsh to post on this forum of people who wanted to wash thier laundry in the river and had thier hands burned to the flesh because of the waste from new factories.

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All true .. but even a place like Hong Kong .. correuption exists. Police, judges, even the executives. Too many funky things are happening in HK that makes you wonder.

 

Back on topic though .. Airsoft is developing in China as we speak. Many new models will hit within the next 12 months. Some of them are going to surprise you (IMO .. in a good way).

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Well I guess its sorta off topic. Well allow me one more off topic thingy. I don't think the Chinese workers really prefer it this way. (Clarify on "prefer" I may be misreading what you wrote) Its more like many of the factory workers don't have a choice. Its either hard work with less pay(farmers) or hard work with a bit more pay (factories). Not that im saying those are the only two jobs in China but indeed makes up the majority of jobs.

 

and back on topic

 

Yes im confident in Chinese Airsofts and maybe in the future, not now (was thinking to buy the CYMA 028 but ill wait and see on how they grow). It will grow fast and be right next to TM and CA definitely.

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In the short time I have been playing airsoft (approx. 1 year since I bought my first "real" gun CA g36c) the improvement in chinese airsoft products has been unreal... just 18 months ago I purchased a CYMA g36 which couldn't get out of it's own way to shoot more than 180fps., and now the AK and MP5 series are shooting 300+ right out of the box, and are almost 100% compatible with TM and CA parts. I can only imagine what kinds of cool new things will be coming out of china 6 or 8 months from now...

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OK, AEGs and springers are fairly simple... But will mainland China attempt to copy gas guns or invent their own AEG models? I must admit that I'd be surprised seeing a PPS43 AEG/gas gun (the Chinese already committed a woefully crappy springer) or a working electric MP40 (since TOP is nothing but an expensive wallhanger).

Are Chinese fullmetal spring pistols a hint that something big is underway?

 

PS: I WANT QBZ95!

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Yes there is a need for a high price - R&D is not free for the innovator. And that is the role that TM and other Japanese manufacturers have served in. Something that CYMA did not have to pay for.

 

Enough copies come out, no more innovations would be made and therefore there will be nothing new. It's good for the consumer in the short run, but bad for the sport in the long run.

 

Not to mention putting airsoft into the price range of more potential trouble makers than there already is.

 

I agree wholeheartedly

 

I have seen the copies, right now the QC is not enough for me to give them a second look. But the potential is there, especially in China

Side note about the copies, i have a spasm in my conscious when i see a $90 MP5 running around competing with $250 ones. The thought of work going into design to be suddenly "stolen" and copied is painful.

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OK, AEGs and springers are fairly simple... But will mainland China attempt to copy gas guns or invent their own AEG models? I must admit that I'd be surprised seeing a PPS43 AEG/gas gun (the Chinese already committed a woefully crappy springer) or a working electric MP40 (since TOP is nothing but an expensive wallhanger).

Are Chinese fullmetal spring pistols a hint that something big is underway?

 

PS: I WANT QBZ95!

You don't give them much credit. China also makes tools including staple guns which is the same as any gas gun but shoots something more lethal. Remember they also make high tech things as well as low tech stuff, all they need is someone to say "hey lets make so and so " and boom they churn them out in the boatloads for 5 cents each unit.

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You don't give them much credit.  China also makes tools including staple guns which is the same as any gas gun but shoots something more lethal.  Remember they also make high tech things as well as low tech stuff, all they need is someone to say "hey lets make so and so " and boom they churn them out in the boatloads for 5 cents each unit.

 

sure they do and most of them are copies of existing desings Like it or lump it having the skill and wherewithall to make an original design doesnt neccessarily mean you perceive an incentive to.

 

You could quite easily continue to churn out low R&D cost clones for the rest of your days (or till some other commodity goods become more profitable to make on your machinery)

 

ability is easy to establish, willingness only time will tell

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OK, now it's my turn to share some inside info (received from a reliable source that has to remain anonymous):

Cyma CM.031 is not SIG55x, as previously stated, but a SLR105 clone. It should be ready in October. Also in the works is a TM M14 clone, in olive and wood stock version, also to be ready in October. Next year, we should see a... Tommygun. Yes, b*tches, Thompson M1A1!

 

Well goes down. The only new releases will be G18C (sadly, they were bested on this field by Cyma) and Beretta 93R (the slide looks very poor upon closer inspection). R9 is, sadly, no better than old D90. All plastic.

 

Double Eagle gets on the AEP market too (no new rifle/SMG designs) - remember the UTG SOCOM AEP? Here it comes, and it's even quite good.

 

Boyi - remember the metal M4 Darklite was talking about? It's almost ready too. It works, but some things were simplified (one piece hop-up, like CA one, and probably plastic RIS rails).

 

Other new releases - a factory yet unknown will release a M40A1 springer in September. It is claimed to be stronger than the Double Eagle M50, but I have no info on whether will it be upgradeable and how.

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I'm looking forward to a Sig 550 clone. I love that gun. I just worry though that as these guns get closer and closer to TM quality and performance, the prices will slowly creep up. They probably won't ever go as high as TM/CA, but they could go pretty high while still being a good amount less expensive than TM.

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Does that P90 have two receivers? I need the upper and hop chamber... Don't care how bad it does I'll still get it if it can fit Marui (or close enough)

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* Starts saving peenies for CLONE M14 and Tommy gun*

Wont take much saving. Any ideas as to the costs.

I guess that prices will be around 100-150$, as usual. But don't expect the Thompson earlier than May 2007.

 

It still makes me wonder, what is the CM029. I may ask my source, but I'm not sure if I get any replies...

Anyway, it was confirmed that the "UTG Warhawk Paratrooper" is indeed a Cyma CM028S. My source mentioned that "it's strange, but UTG orders from Cyma now".

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