G&G L85 reveiw

[mario114]

Just two questions from me.

 

1) Should I get one?

2) Anyone know what the price from AW will be after September?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1, dunno, I think they look cool

2, I believe they will be about £360

[Stealthbomber]

The G&G rail is over 19 mm but under 20 mm. STAR SUSAT doesn't fit, but the rail is attached by two screws from the inside. Shouldn't be hard to replace with a Picatinny or Weaver rail.

 

-Sale

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surely if it's "over 19 mm but under 20 mm" then anything Picatinny or Weaver compatible should still fit?

 

The problem is more that you can't fit a Star (or real) SUSAT on there cos it uses a 14mm(ish) dovetail rail.

 

My G&G L85 arrives tommorow, along with a Star SUSAT and rail. I'm glad to hear that the G&G rail is attached with screws cos it'll be coming straight off and the Star rail and SUSAT will be going on in its place.

[Lance Jackass]

Let us know how you get on with that mate, it'd be interesting to see if it's an easy fit. I'd much rather they made it to use the real sized parts.

[Stealthbomber]

For sure.

 

Seems daft for them to have gone for a 20mm rail which immediately stops you from fitting a real SUSAT if you wanted to.

 

After all, if you did want to fit an aimpoint or something then you can always buy a 14mm - 20mm rail adaptor from Star.

G&G should have built it authentically and then supplied alternatives, as Star have, rather than fitting a 20mm rail and then, apparently, producing a SUSAT with a 20mm rail.

 

I suppose I can see their idea. By doing it this way they make sure people "can't" fit a Star SUSAT and they can also produce a SUSAT which people can bolt to other guns if they want.

 

Personally, although I like the look of the SUSAT I can't really see it being a big hit on M4s and G36s etc.

 

Incidentally, anybody know what shape the G&G rail is?

I mean, a proper picatinny rail is actually hexagonal in section. It's V-shaped at the bottom but also tapers back in at the top.

The real L85 dovetail rail is, OTOH, just a V shape with a flat top.

The result of this is that not only would a SUSAT not fit a 20mm rail cos it's not wide enough but the slot in the SUSAT mount base is nowhere near tall enough for a picatinny rail either.

 

Anyway, all will be revealed tommorow, hopefully.

 

With pictures.

[Angry]

I've had mine since Friday and whilst I'm not going to do a full review yet I've got a few points I think are worth mentioning.

 

Despite what AW told me I cannot get mine working with a mini battery. I've used a large to test it with, but I've resorted to ordering one of the custom ones from AW. Once it arrives I'll finally be able to fire it!

 

The bolt is very stiff and fails to return to closed by spring power alone. This is down to the screw securing the hop adjustment wheel rubbing against it. I've tightened the screw as much as I dare, but I might have to resort to getting my dremel onto it.

 

The spring that returns the bolt catch is located in the lower receiver near the fire selector. Care needs to be taken when re-assembling or the spring can get caught and disconnected. I discovered this last night but fortunately the spring was still usable.

 

Negatives aside tho I love it so far. Its by far the most solid AEG i've ever had my hands on. I can't wait to take it out for the first time and fire it.

[sadigh]

The problem is more that you can't fit a Star (or real) SUSAT on there cos it uses a 14mm(ish) dovetail rail.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm, no it dosnt

 

The STAR and real-steel L85 uses a 19mm dovetail rail. Incidently, the real-steel SUSAT and iron sights also use a 19mm dovetail rail.

 

As Sale already mentioned, the G&G dovetail is just over 19mm, so the STAR and real-steel SUSAT won't fit. However, it is possible to sand/file/dremel the rail a little bit to make them fit, and wouldn't take long either.

 

I've said this so many times already, but I seem to have been ignored completely. Any optic made for a 20mm rail, no matter what rail, will mount on the L85 19mm dovetail without the need for an adapter. Likewise, they will also fit on the G&G dovetail too.

[Lance Jackass]

Mr Stealth is partially right i think.

 

The front sight i have next to me looks to be for a 14mm dovetail and then tapers down to about 10mm at the bottom.

 

The rear sight is just over 19mm (about as accurate as i can get with a school ruler and shakey hands), tapering down to about 16mm.

 

Both parts are RS - and so the measurements are bound to be off, as when taken off the gun, they have to be unscrewed etc, so the size is larger. Hard to explain, but yeah. I just hope that one day i can fit these buggers to something!

 

I know it sounds daft, but when i picked up a STAR rear sight, i noticed that it was a lot heavier than the real one. I think the real one may be a lighter alloy than the STAR Steel.

[ianhaz]

Oh baby ordering one of these on friday sounds absolutely brilliant from this review(once the star owners had left ).

[Stealthbomber]

I'm sure there are, somewhere, mount blocks which will clamp tight enough to a Star/real L85 rail to be secure but the width is different enough that the scope will be noticeably off-centre.

 

I honestly can't recall the width of the Star/real rail but I know it's noticeably smaller than 20mm. Must admit, the 14mm rail I'm thinking of is the width of an air-rifle dovetail rail.

 

Anyway, I tried bolting my real aimpoint to the Star L85 and it wouldn't tighten anywhere near enough. The same scope will clamp firmly to the G&G rail.

 

Be aware, of course, that you still (probably) won't be able to bolt a G&G SUSAT (when it arrives) to a 20mm rail because a RIS rail is a different shape.

If G&G use their brains they will make the SUSAT mount so it WILL fit on a RIS rail but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Sale]

The air rifle standard rail is 11 mm, not 14. I don't know about the real one, but the STAR L85 has a 19 mm rail. It's very close to G&G, and the difference is probably just manufacturing tolerances, not an intentional move from G&G. They are basically the same rails, G&G is just a bit too wide. Nothing else. Some 20 mm mounts and sights will remain loose on the G&G rail, but my EOTech went on without a hassle. (The claw has a lot of travel below 20 mm.) Use bits from a beer can as shims, or replace the rail with a proper one if your mounts or sights don't tighten on the rail as is.

 

I don't know who would want a STAR SUSAT anyways, because it's heavy and the eye relief is terrible. Filing the G&G rail down is easy, however. If the real SUSAT goes on a 19 mm rail, I'd expect a little filing (if anything) but no real trouble.

 

I have to correct myself, the rail is on the G&G with three screws instead of two.

 

-Sale

[Stealthbomber]

Agree about the Star SUSAT. I've ordered one purely on the basis that it's the only game in town.

 

I know it's an expensive experiment but I'm going to look at fitting the guts out of an RDS into it. I figure one of those J-point replicas which have recently gone on sale would be an idea donor.

[dechande]

The air rifle standard rail is 11 mm, not 14. I don't know about the real one, but the STAR L85 has a 19 mm rail. It's very close to G&G, and the difference is probably just manufacturing tolerances, not an intentional move from G&G. They are basically the same rails, G&G is just a bit too wide. Nothing else. Some 20 mm mounts and sights will remain loose on the G&G rail, but my EOTech went on without a hassle. (The claw has a lot of travel below 20 mm.) Use bits from a beer can as shims, or replace the rail with a proper one if your mounts or sights don't tighten on the rail as is. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

the 20mm rail is intentional, in order to standardize. the susat will also be 20mm, so it can be used an other guns without adapters as well as the l85.

[Angry]

One other small gripe I have thats not actually to do with the gun is that AW's custom battery has a small plug on it whilst the L85 has a large! A bit of an oversight there. Worth keeping in mind tho if anyone doesn't have an adaptor handy.

 

Actually not only that but the custom battery doesn't even fit!!! There's no way at all it'll go in the front grip. So don't go buying one!

[sadigh]

The real-steel l85 uses a 19mm dovetail rail. The top of the rail is 19mm, and tapers down to 14mm.

 

The real-steel SUSAT mount block will only allow it to be fitted to a 19mm dovetail, the STAR SUSAT replicates this. The same applies to the iron sights for the L85.

 

The G&G L85 rail is a 20mm dovetail, so the star and real-steel SUSATs and iron sights won't fit, unless the rail is filed down a little bit.

 

Alot of optics made for RIS rails have mounts that can be tightened quite drematically, enableing them to be mounted on rails narrower then 20mm. My RDS does this, and fits on my 19mm dovetail perfectly.

 

Here is a diagram showing the difference between a dovetail rail, and a RIS rail (cross-section) -

[Stealthbomber]

Just to highlight something from Sadigh's previous post, the key issue is the sectional shape of the rail, rather than just the width.

 

If G&G use their brains, they'll make their SUSAT with a Picatinny style clamp. If they make it with a 20mm dovetail clamp it still won't fit on a Picatinny rail.

Fingers crossed that they've got the brains to work that one out for themselves.

[Angry]

After less than 200 rounds my blowback went, dropped into the gearbox and it went crunch. I'll be sending it back to AW in the morning. I can't believe how much trouble I've had with it so far! Perhaps the doubters were right with this one.

 

I'm going to seriously consider asking for my money back.

[vbtb110]

Nice review and pics, too bad about the Blowback, I was looking forward to that.

[creed_det5]

Angry: This happened after you'd read the review that stated that the blowback, if/when it broke, would drop down into the gearbox and cause a massive failure of the same?

 

As for the rail, if it's attached with screws, it's removable. Go to Tango Down's website and grab an appropriate length of Piackatinny rail. They even have a polymer version that's cheap, can be drilled to fit any spacing of holes, and can be cut to length if needed. Then attach said rail to the upper receiver of the L85 in place of the standard-or-not-so-standard dovetail. Then attach any number of optics to said rail. If I were Royal Ordonance, I'd do that for the A3 model of the real thing, and extend the rail down the entire length of the handguard while I was at it. Instant ability to accept any one of a number of optical and iron sights.

 

I really, really want G&G to make a UGL (Underbarrel Grenade Launcher used by the British Army, based on the H&K AG36) for their L85. BTW, the L85's UGL adds a small section of Pickatinny rail to the right side of the forend. Pics of British soldiers show them with tactical lights attached, but one of the new STAR AN/PEQ-2 battery cases with installed laser would look killer and solve the battery issue in one stroke.

 

-Chris

[Stealthbomber]

Nobody wants to attach any other scope to the L85.

We just want to figure out our options for attaching a SUSAT.

 

Thanks for the suggestion though.

[dechande]

After less than 200 rounds my blowback went, dropped into the gearbox and it went crunch. I'll be sending it back to AW in the morning. I can't believe how much trouble I've had with it so far! Perhaps the doubters were right with this one.

 

I'm going to seriously consider asking for my money back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

what else has happened with it?

[Monk]

what else has happened with it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is what he said a page ago.

 

I've had mine since Friday and whilst I'm not going to do a full review yet I've got a few points I think are worth mentioning.

 

Despite what AW told me I cannot get mine working with a mini battery. I've used a large to test it with, but I've resorted to ordering one of the custom ones from AW. Once it arrives I'll finally be able to fire it!

 

The bolt is very stiff and fails to return to closed by spring power alone. This is down to the screw securing the hop adjustment wheel rubbing against it. I've tightened the screw as much as I dare, but I might have to resort to getting my dremel onto it.

 

The spring that returns the bolt catch is located in the lower receiver near the fire selector. Care needs to be taken when re-assembling or the spring can get caught and disconnected. I discovered this last night but fortunately the spring was still usable.

 

Negatives aside tho I love it so far. Its by far the most solid AEG i've ever had my hands on. I can't wait to take it out for the first time and fire it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Honestly, I can't believe there are still people excited about this gun, or anything by G&G for that matter. The gun was noted early on to have a "consumable" internal piece that can also consume the rest of the gearbox. That's completely insane. If TM announced a new M4A1 that had already been stomped on and cracked in half, I doubt people here would be as excited about that release as they are about this G&G. The real difference is that the TM is a far better price. So the internals are crud, the battery is an issue, the body isn't quite right. Wow. What a great AEG.

[Stealthbomber]

This is what he said a page ago.

Honestly, I can't believe there are still people excited about this gun, or anything by G&G for that matter.  The gun was noted early on to have a "consumable" internal piece that can also consume the rest of the gearbox.  That's completely insane.  If TM announced a new M4A1 that had already been stomped on and cracked in half, I doubt people here would be as excited about that release as they are about this G&G.  The real difference is that the TM is a far better price.  So the internals are crud, the battery is an issue, the body isn't quite right.  Wow.  What a great AEG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice to see informed opinion alive and well at Arnies.

 

FYI, the G&G gearbox is VERY well designed with several unique touches such as the neat spring decompressor, the bolt catch and the clip to secure the inner barrel and hop up.

Don't forget that they've also given it a modular gearbox so you can change the spring without getting gears and shims everywhere.

 

The blowback mechanism is a gimmick and is doomed to failure on pretty much every AEG. SPend $300 on a TM AK and another $50 on the Guarder blowback kit then watch it shred itself within a few hundred shots.

 

Think back to 5 years ago when every product that CA made was utter junk. Now there are some people who swear the sun shines out of CA's *albatross*.

IMO, the L85 looks like it might be a turning point for G&G too.

 

Beyond that, either buy one or shut up about it.

[Angry]

Angry:  This happened after you'd read the review that stated that the blowback, if/when it broke, would drop down into the gearbox and cause a massive failure of the same?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh come on! We're not talking about extensive use here, we're talking about an initial play-around session with a new gun! Its not even been outside yet, I was firing inside my house into a cardboard box! However you look at it it should definitely have lasted for more than 200 rounds!

[Stealthbomber]

Oh come on! We're not talking about extensive use here, we're talking about an initial play-around session with a new gun! Its not even been outside yet, I was firing inside my house into a cardboard box! However you look at it it should definitely have lasted for more than 200 rounds!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For sure.

 

I promised myself that I'd remove the blowback gizmo right away but it seems to work really well so there's a big temptation to leave it in place for "just a little while longer".

 

Incidentally, people have said they're gonna put plasticard or tape over the gap to stop the hook falling into the gearbox. I can't for the life of me, see how that's possible cos it'd cover the slot the blowback gizmo needs to hook onto the piston.

 

In other news, I fitted a Star SUSAT to my G&G L85.

The deal is that G&G have put a slightly higher edge on the rail so the SUSAT wants to sit a bit higher and is, thus, too wide.

The 2 ways to deal with this are as follows:

1) Take the whole gun to bits, remove the rail and file the edges of it to make it narrower.

2) Carefully file the top edge of the rail.

 

I went with option 1 and, I gotta say, after taking the front end of the gun to bits (required to get to the 3 screws that hold the rail on) I'm very impressed by the way the gun is put together. It's complicated but in a well-designed sort of way.

It's certainly much more logical and coherant than the bodged way the Star L85 is designed.

There are no lumps of plastic and self-tapping screws to be found on the G&G gun.

 

Anyway, it took me about 10 minutes of filing to get the G&G rail so the Star SUSAT would fit. It then took about half an hour to get the gun back together.

 

If you want to fit a Star SUSAT (or a real one) to your G&G L85 I'd definately suggest you go with option 2 and just file a bit off the top of the rail.

[Angry]

I can't deny that the G&G is well designed. All it takes to open it up is to remove the back pin. Once inside you undo the battery connection clip and thats it, the gun in in two halves.

 

I still can't make up my mind whether or not to ask for my money back off AW. Part of me wants to give it a chance...