Both Elephant M8-2 (Steyr Aug Carbine)

[davecymru]

As i now use a TOP M249 as my primary weapon i really can't justify having a fully kitted out TM MP7 just "laying around" as a backup. So while looking for a more reasonably priced backup weapon i stumbled across the Both Elephant M8-2 Steyr Aug Carbine on airshooter for £45.

 

After a bit of research and reading around, just to make sure, this turned out to be mis-described on airshooter's site and was actually the same as the one being sold on actionhobbies for £85. So - bargain £40 saving for a start!

 

Whats in the Box:

(picture from actionhobbies.co.uk - mine didn't have the charger)

Gun (Steyr Aug Carbine)

1 x Hi-cap magazine

1 x 9.6v 1200mah (mini sized) battery pack with Tamiya connector

NO mains charger! - the one from action hobbies seems to have one, maybe that's where the extra £40 is saved :-)

Speed loader - Marui pistol mag type (with a hi-cap?)

speed loader adapter (lord knows why!)

plastic screw on "iron" sights

cleaning rod (longer than the gun!)

safety glasses (can't fit them around my head - no comments!)

1 pack of about 200 .12g bb's

1 pack of about 1000 .20g bb's (free from airshooter)

1 mock telescopic sight - non magnified, non illuminated

 

Gun Overview:

 

Taking it out of the box i noticed straight away that It's HEAVY!!

I've had a few LPEGs and quite a few good quality guns over the years and on initial impression this doesn't feel like any LPEG i've had. So good start.

It's made nearly entirely of plastic apart from the 2 sling swivels and the alloy barrel. but feels nice and sturdy to hold.

I am a bit concerned about the strength of the fore grip as it's a bit wobbly, but i'll have a look at that later.

There is a sliding hatch on the back right hand side of the main body of the gun where the shell ejection port would normally be that slides back to reveal the metal gearbox and fixed hop unit. There is also a plastic "bung" on the left hand side that if removed reveals an identical joined hatch. I put the bung back in as you can't do much through this hole!

 

What i believe is the normal barrel release latch at the front doesn't seem to actually do anything (apart from wobble back and fore, but if you're bored i'm sure that'll be amusing), and instead there is a slide-through button in the middle of the body that allows you to remove the entire front assembly.

 

This is where it starts to show its price. The main body of the gun on it's own still feels solid and sturdy but the front section when removed feels MUCH more delicate! and feels much more like it's part of an LPEG!

 

With the gun re-assembled and battery charged i fitted my replica aimpoint red-dot normally used on the 249 and straight away noticed that with such a heavy sight on the plastic (yes plastic) RIS rail wobbled un-nervingly on the plastic carry handle. Although that said, I'm sure with a replacement metal rail and a lighter sight it should be sturdy enough for most.

 

The magazine is a translucent hi-cap and feels as sturdy as the gun itself but does have some minor moulding burrs on the back that will upset some of the perfectionists. but then again for anyone buying this gun for £45 (or £85 from actionhobbies now that airshooter are sold out!), i'm sure that won't upset you for long!

 

Battery in, mag loaded with .20g Q-bullet BB's (i didn't count exactly how many BBs the mag takes, i'm REALLY not that backside retentive!) and with a few diet-pepsi cans at the ready i did a bit of performance testing.

 

I put 1 mags worth of BB's through it first to help bed everything in and have to say that it's rate of fire is more than acceptable!

I did have "issues" with the 2 position trigger for semi/full auto selection, but more about that in part 2 of this post!

 

On the 2nd mag i did some coke can testing of power (insert normal for/against rants over this test as applicable, but it's all i had at hand) i used 3 diet pepsi cans and could see as i went on that the power seemed to be increasing, so i don't think that i bedded it in fully. But. From what i've seen so far, at the start of the tests the BBs were "nearly" going through one side of the can and by the end were tearing the metal but not actually entering the can (different cans used - not just the same one!) so i'd quite confidently say that this is firing in the high 200s and will hopefully settle around the 300 mark, which is what the guys at actionhobbies found.

 

Next : Stripping it apart and the internals!

[davecymru]

Issues noted so-far.

Only two really:

* Some springs are "rattling" when firing.

* I have "issues" trying to get it to fire semi-auto.

 

Time for a bit of Stripping:

Barrel assembly removed, i took about taking this apart to see how it ticks.

Unusually for a cheaper gun, what would normally be the 3main screws holding the rear body together (around the gearbox) are actually 3 nuts and bolts.

This came as a nice surprise as i've come across the sort of cheaper plastic used in these before and know how easily the screws can tear it apart.

 

With those out and all the other (self tapping) screws removed, you need to remove the 4 screws that hold the trigger assembly in place.

With all those out you then slide the safety catch and front assembly release catches through and prise off their metal base plates and it comes apart into two pieces. NOTE: these 2 catches and their base plates seem to fall out on their own accord some times, that is something i'll have to look at fixing!

Also, try and catch the magazine release catch as when it flys out it can be painful if it hits you in the groin (take my word for this!)

 

 

As you can see from that pic, the right side comes off nicely and leaves the gearbox attached to the left side (2 screws hold it on, but i forgot to take a pic with that removed)

 

Now you start to see why it's so heavy:

 

Yup that's a HUGE lump of lead in the pistol grip! but.. it's well shaped and actually balances the gun quite nicely.

In that pic you can also see the trigger mech and what i found out to be causing all my fire selection problems, the Plastic rod connecting that pushes the trigger! At this end of the rod it flexes as the joints weren't screwed together tightly enough, now fixed and self tappers replaced with nuts and bolts!

 

Next the back end.

Yup, that's a hefty metal gearbox! Also, i noted straight away from my RC car days, it's got a motor with external brushes and springs so that means it should be maintainable and cleanable!

 

You can also see the other end of the trigger "rod" and how it is shaped to go around the mag well.

Now i can't imagine that this would be an issue with a metal, well made rod. but with a cheap plastic one, it flexes at this point! and hence adding to my fire selection issues. (simple solution to this below)

 

I haven't taken the gearbox apart yet, but it does look and feel quite sturdy and in my opinion the quality of the plastics and metals does seem to be slightly above those used on the rest of the gun!

 

So overall, despite the gearbox and performance being improved the plastics are the same quality as those used in an LPEG and if you aren't the sort who likes "tinkering" with their gun themselves then you may get issues.

 

That said, if you can hold a pair of pliers and know where in B&Q they sell nuts and bolts and are mature enough to use glue, then owning one of these mid priced guns (i REFUSE to use the term MPEG - sorry) then it should actually be a bit of a larf and enable you to tailor and alter your gun more to your needs without having to worry about damaging £300+ worth of kit.

 

 

Issues spotted and workarounds:

1) The fire selection issue.

This was down to the rod from the trigger to the gearbox flexing when pressed.

I'm sure it could be replaced with a metal one, but for now i've found, with by replacing the self tappers with nuts and bolts and with a bit of tinkering, a small piece of balsa wood attached inside the stock on each side of the rod where it goes by the mag well removes the flex enough for the trigger to work as expected.

So that'll do as a workaround until i move house and get my workshop sorted out.

 

2) Springgy noises when firing

This was mainly from the spring used to retain the hatch over the shell ejection ports.

As that port has no real use with a fixed hop (that's another issue), i removed the slider and spring completely, used the existing bung to cover one side and cut a small piece of plastic and glued it in place to cover the other.

Then i applied silicon grease to the trigger spring and the spring on the fake cocking handle.

All "boings" removed! and it makes quite a satisfying noise when firing.

 

3) Self tapping screws, keep on tapping.

When re-assembling the main body, some of the REALLY short self tappers seemed to be just turning already de-threading their holes.

But, there seems enough material on the mouldings to be able to shorten the rod that is screwed into and affix a small nut on top of it and then use small bolts instead of the self tappers.

I'll then be able to dis-assemble and re-assemble to my hearts content!

 

4) Fixed HOP

I'm not going to tinker with this until i've taken the AUG to a skirmish next month.

So fingers crossed that it's not completely useless.

Edited September 26, 2006 by davecymru

[davecymru]

So, my conclusions so far.

 

Good points

Rate of fire

Power

9.6 battery

hi-cap magazine

Really nice "feel" to the gun

 

Bad points

CHEAP plastics used everywhere will put off the less adventurous

Self tapping screws are evil!

RIS Rail must die!

Front assembly feels like it's from a different gun it's so cheaply made

 

So overall I'm happy with this gun. I'd be personally happily use it skirmishing and i fully intend to use it next month at Spectre Urban.

BUT! I'd not be 100% happy to lend this to a mate to use as i know the strong & weak points and can take them into account in the heat of battle but i'd put money on that somebody borrowing this would break "something" during a days skirmish.

 

I'd say this gun would be ideal for tinkerers and people who have always fancied an Aug and want to see how they get on with one before splashing out on a TM or CA one. Or, like me, someone who wants a backup "occasional use" weapon.

BUT after taking it apart and knowing it's weak points i'd not be really happy suggesting it as somebodies 1st gun! and that's not me being a price snob, i'd rather recommend they spend an extra £30 or £40 of their money (assuming they were looking at the £85 version of this ) and get a 2nd hand Marui or a discounted (least season) full metal ICS or CA weapon that will better stand up to the rigours for newbieness

[zagarol]

<snip/>

NO mains charger! - the one from action hobbies seems to have one, maybe that's where the extra £40 is saved :-)

<snip/>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I also have the exact same Aug from Air shooter (Edit: doh wrong supplier and seeing as you gave me the link there is no excuse!!!) and mine does have the charger if its important get on to them and complain that it is missing!

 

Edited September 26, 2006 by zagarol

[davecymru]

I also have the exact same Aug from Air shooter (Edit: doh wrong supplier and seeing as you gave me the link there is no excuse!!!) and mine does have the charger if its important get on to them and complain that it is missing!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

What i meant was that i got mine from airshooter and didn't get a charger (or at least i can't ever remember ever seeing one when i opened the box) but i wasn't at all bothered as i'd saved £40 over the price listed on action hobbies.

 

At least i managed to strip mine apart without anything falling out/off!

 

Did you manage to get yours Chronoed at AW on the weekend?

[zagarol]

What i meant was that i got mine from airshooter and didn't get a charger (or at least i can't ever remember ever seeing one when i opened the box) but i wasn't at all bothered as i'd saved £40 over the price listed on action hobbies.

 

At least i managed to strip mine apart without anything falling out/off!

 

Did you manage to get yours Chronoed at AW on the weekend?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See edit hehe! I got mine for the same price as yours and yes the rear sling mount fell off and the metal locking thingy fell out of the barrel lock button but hey £45 hehe!

 

No didn't get chance this weekend as I forgot AW don't open on a Sunday! Doh! so it'll be an early bird trip there on Saturday if you want to come over.

[maverick343432]

You guys do know that the "airshooter" version is the plastic gear version and chronos at about 200 with .2s whilst the "actionhobbies" version is the metal gear and chronos at 310 with .2s.

Hence the price difference. Otherwise nice review.

Edited September 26, 2006 by maverick343432

[davecymru]

You guys do know that the "airshooter" version is the plastic gear version and chronos at about 200 with .2s whilst the "actionhobbies" version is the metal gear and chronos at 310 with .2s.

Hence the price difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sorry matey, but you're wrong.

Did you read the above review or even look at the photos as it shows the metal gearbox and states quite clearly what power i ACTUALLY got when firing it?

 

The airshooter one is simply mis-described (the description on the page is actually for the long barrel Steyr Aug with the full plastic gearbox) and in fact this one DID come with a hi-cap, 9.6v battery and the metal gearbox and all else as described on the actionhobbies site.

 

After doing a lot of reading around before splashing out my hard earned pennies on this i found that there seem to be 3 BE Steyr Augs.

1) (unknown designation) - Long barrel - Plastic Gearbox - that's the 200fps one you mention.

2) BE M8 - Long Barrel - Metal Gearbox - 300fps

3) BE M8-2 - Short Barrel - Metal Gearbox - also 300 fps and the one accurately described on actionhobbies.

 

From everything i can see and from everything i've read there never was a carbine with the plastic gearbox as the BE M8-2 is the only BE Aug Carbine.

[maverick343432]

Wasn't having a go mate was just utterly dumbfounded at the price difference of the same gun. Is the outer barrel threaded at all? As i was looking at these some while ago but was put of by the stated 200 fps claim by airshooter.

[davecymru]

Wasn't having a go mate was just utterly dumbfounded at the price difference of the same gun.

no worries, i was VERY much the same as you, which is why i spent nearly 2 days trawling numerous web sites and reading a LOT of reviews before i came to the conclusion that the price must have just been wrong! or that actionhobbies is a bit over priced on this one

The screen shot of the box on airshooter showing "M8-2" on the box made it for me.

After getting it i'm now 99.99% sure it's the same gun as the gearbox, power levels, hi-cap magazine and a 9.6v battery as compared to 8.4v etc all seem to be right for the higher quality one.

 

Is the outer barrel threaded at all? As i was looking at these some while ago but was put of by the stated 200 fps claim by airshooter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The outer barrel area is one of the worst molded parts of the gun and is totally plastic i'm afraid. The inner barrel is metal, but as i hinted at in the review, all of the parts over and around the front end are plastic and i'm sure that something in that area will be the first thing to break

 

That said. for £45, get one and chop a bit of the front section off and attach a section of threaded barrel yourself!

Edited September 26, 2006 by davecymru

[my_plague_666]

hi, any idea how the quality compares on this BE AUG? http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/contentitemp...tID~230773.aspx

 

its the long barrel version, airshooter are out of stock of the one you reviewed and my friend is looking for a cheap and cheerful electric gun.

[davecymru]

hi, any idea how the quality compares on this BE AUG? http://www.actionhobbys.co.uk/contentitemp...tID~230773.aspx

 

its the long barrel version, airshooter are out of stock of the one you reviewed and my friend is looking for a cheap and cheerful electric gun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's the M8, that one has the plastic gearbox and low-cap mag.

That's the one that maverick343432 was talking about and only fires at 200fps.

it's an LPEG, and i'd say not really worth it

 

So it's actually:

1) BE M8 - Long barrel - Plastic Gearbox - 200fps / LowCap mag

2) BE M8-1 - Long Barrel - Metal Gearbox - 300fps / Hi cap mag

3) BE M8-2 - Short Barrel - Metal Gearbox - 300 fps / hi cap mag

 

If you don't mind importing, then Gunner has the M8-1 in stock:

http://www.gunnerairsoft.com/newgun/chinese/aug/index.htm

Edited September 27, 2006 by davecymru

[my_plague_666]

yeah, i'd noticed that one on gunner. anywhere in the UK stock either of them? (airshooter are out of stock, apart from actionhobbys since for £80 my friend would rather get a cyma AK)

 

p.s. is it TM/CA mag compatible?

Edited September 27, 2006 by my_plague_666

[maverick343432]

http://www.gizmos-uk.com/BE%20Steyr%20AUG.html

 

There you go free shipping aswell, im guessing thats the plastic geared version tho as it says about 190 fps.

[my_plague_666]

i was looking for the metal gearbox version idealy

[davecymru]

Bit of an update on this weapon.

 

Zagarol got his M8-2 chronoed at Airsoft Warehouse yesterday and got 290fps (yeah) hopefully this should go up a little bit once it's a bedded in (maybe) as we keep hearing that these regularly settle down at 300 / 310fps

 

Also he tried both the CA and TM Steyr mags and both fitted and fed without any modifications (yeah again) - i see a trip to AW coming on next week to pick myself some spare mags up!

 

Also, after looking through the TM breakdown diagrams of the AUG (available elsewhere on Arnies) i had another look at my Aug and found that the BE M8-2 does indeed have a working barrel release catch, it was just that you have to pull the cocking handle back slightly as well before twisting to release. So these do break down into the 3 main parts the same as the other brands!

 

Once again Zagarol has backed this up by showing his weapon (fannarrr) to the guys at AW yesterday and compared it to the CA and TM Augs and we're now convinced that these are more like 95%+ identical!! So i can see a replacement barrel and adjustable aftermarket HOP being fitted!

 

So money spent so-far:

£45 for the gun,

£12 for some sound deadening (more info and pics to come soon

£4.50 for some fibreglass filler for strengthing (once again pics and info to come soon)

 

Money to spend this week

£15 for the barrel,

£30 for the aftermarket hop-unit

2mm nuts and bolts to replace self tapping screws (price unknown yet)

 

So i reckon that i'm looking at just a tad over £100 in total for what will be a 300fps+, upgraded skirmishable AEG!!

 

Things to look at buying after that:

Gearbox internals upgrade, although i'm going to leave this until mine breaks!

Spare mag(s)

[zagarol]

Bit of an update on this weapon.

 

Zagarol got his M8-2 chronoed at Airsoft Warehouse yesterday and got 290fps (yeah) hopefully this should go up a little bit once it's a bedded in (maybe) as we keep hearing that these regularly settle down at 300 / 310fps

<snip/>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ahh pipped to the post (by 2 days!) man I need to spend less time working.

 

Yep I was in Airsoft Warehouse on Saturday and chrono'd the Aug at about 290 (286, 289, 291, ...)

 

Also both the TM and CA mags fit fine but you need to make sure that the mag release catch pops back out when fitting them or else the mag will fall back out again.

 

I am assuming that the nozzle filing mod that people are talking about is in order to make the release catch spring out without having to give it a gentle(ish) shove.

 

All in all though this gun is fantastic for the money and works perfectly as the backup / loaner gun it was intended for!!

 

Zag

[my_plague_666]

one of my mates is thinking about ditching the forgrip and doing a bit more external modding then building a dropleg for it.

[davecymru]

<in my best James Bond villan voice> Interesting... </in my best James Bond villan voice>

 

It is a NICE weapon to use and i reckon you could easily dual wield with the Carbine version, but it is a LOT bigger than my old MP7, so it'll be interesting to see it carried in a dropleg.

[Erestheux]

Nice review Looking forward to the details on the modifications you made.

[my_plague_666]

<in my best James Bond villan voice> Interesting...  </in my best James Bond villan voice> 

 

It is a NICE weapon to use and i reckon you could easily dual wield with the Carbine version, but it is a LOT bigger than my old MP7, so it'll be interesting to see it carried in a dropleg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i think it will take some SERIOUS butchering

[davecymru]

Post Skirmish Update!

 

Well, the M249 let me down again! (It was 2nd hand and i think it's had a hard life before i got it, so now it's time for a complete overhaul!)

 

But this meant that at Combat South Woodland on the 26th i got to skirmish with the BE Aug all day.

 

HOW nervous was i at first!!!

 

BUT. After a day of skirmishing with the little beasty, can i say WOW!!!

 

So a post match report. Well the first thing i found is that that the original battery you get with it doesn't seem to hold a charge overnight! (mildly annoying) so it's lucky that i'd bought a spare 9.6v 1200mah mini from:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Vapextech-Batteri...5QQftidZ2QQtZkm

a few days previously and that lasted all day with only a minor top-up at lunch.

 

I'd also picked up a spare Marui hi-cap, that fitted the gun without modification. Just when you put it in you just have to pull back "slightly" on the bottom of the mag and hey-presto! it fits.

But, can i say that after a full day with this gun YOU NEED MORE THAN 2 MAGS!

Jeez, the ROF on this weapon is bonkers! it eats through BB's like my m240 (when it's working) and without skipping a beat all day!

 

The fixed hop.. now this i was REALLY nervous about as i still haven't replaced it, and after using it, i'm now not planning on replacing it anytime soon!

For the few couple of mags it was a bit random, but once warmed up it was working just as i wanted. I was using q-bullet .2bbs in case anyone is interested

 

So, any bad points.

The 9.6v mini battery was "fitted" (cough,cough) into the stock so that the butt plate didn't seat properly, so, that got lost mid skirmish (if anyone skirmishing at CSW finds a black Aug butt plate in the bushes behind the village, that would be mine then!).

The front vertical handgrip is still un-nervingly fragile, although it did survive in one piece.

and that's it! no more bad points!

 

Zagarol also took his BE Aug for his brother to use and that also performed just as well all day!

 

So in conclusion. i LOVE this gun. Really, for £45 i've never had more fun with an AEG.

I'm now at a stage with owning this and the M249 where i couldn't justify spending "hundreds" on another "normal" AEG.

 

Rather than spending £250+ on a "full metal" AEG, for the same money i can get a GOOD clone and then spend the rest of my cash on, webbing, combats, spare batterys, spare mags, sights, a days site fees and still have some cash for a few pints in the evening with my teammates! Then when (or IF, if you are careful) the gun breaks, buy another! and you've still not spent as much as you would have done.

 

Now i appreciate that this is not what everyone wants (so no flame wars, please) and YES i also happened to own a full metal over priced uber-cannon. But i just want to get across that IMHO the days of the £250+ AEG HAS to be numbered and my personal outlook on buying and owning AEGs has changed massively as a result of owning this little beauty.

Edited December 15, 2006 by davecymru

[samuel]

Top review, your not part of the BE marketing department are you?

 

I really dont like the AUG but I have to say on the basis of what you have wrote I'm getting tempted!

 

Sam

[my_plague_666]

my freind just got the PGB version. it is possible to drop an MGB V3 in right?

[davecymru]

my freind just got the PGB version. it is possible to drop an MGB V3 in right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I haven't seen inside the Plastic gearbox version, but after reading around i'm 99% sure that it's identical internally to mine.

 

So as long as your V3 gearbox is in Aug configuration then it shouldn't be too much of a problem. (famous last words!)