Airsoft knife kills?

[Lance Jackass]

I don't knife kill. If i can see a player at range, i'll shoot them, rather than crawl all the way up with a "knife" and risk getting shot myself. if someone is at close quarters, chances are, they'll lace me, or if they haven't seen me, i'll just say "Bang."

 

I really don't like those airsoft knives. Sounds silly in a recreated wargames environment, but i don't know if its real or not, when someone comes at me with one.

 

The idea of the airsoft knives is to hold them by the blade and tap the other player on the shoulder with the handle. I've never seen them used like that though

[target_practice]

i suppose they could be made from foam rubber, they would be like using a sponge,absolutly noone could be hurt with them ( not the rubber used for traning knives), and if set rules like stabs to the body only, no actual grabbing the victim, just stab with a sponge shaped knife, no sneaking up and grabbing them and simulating a slit throat.

ive seen some of the knives for airsoft guns.....and you could cause some damage ( rare to happen but could still happen).

i have some foam rubber mix and might have a go if i have some spare time.

milsims can be good......lowcap milsims could use knives, that way the idea is realism so why not use knives.

if a standard skirmish using highcaps then these should stick to guns only.

[Stealthbomber]

Thing is, in an adrenaline-fuelled environment where people can more unpredictably, there's a good chance your potential victim might suddenly decide to turn and run into you or something.

What if you're 2ft away from a knife-kill when your victim spins around and smacks his M16 c/w M203 into the side of your head?

 

Besides that, what exactly is the etiquette for knife kills?

Like the guy, above, who said his victim gave up when he saw the guy bearing down on him with a shovel.

Surely just saying "bang" as the guy came toward you with the shovel would put him out?

After all, if you're holding a gun and he's holding a knife then common sense would dictate that the guy with the gun would win if shots were fired?

 

I just don't see any time when it isn't just as easy to pat somebody on the back and say "bang" instead of attacking them with a rubber knife.

[target_practice]

I just don't see any time when it isn't just as easy to pat somebody on the back and say "bang" instead of attacking them with a rubber knife.

 

 

thats probably the best option,but what is the actual rule on that, ive not actually read it anywhere...........???

i understand its so you dont shoot anyone with a 300+fps gun at close range,but with all the kit most people wear...why not shoot them in the back??

[Kousnik]

I superglued a load of BBs to a mcdonalds plastic knife. It rarely gets used mind, its more for the novelty value. A my two sites a simple 'bang' does the desired effect.

[Kov]

I must agree, from using them before, and feeling them up, most of the airsoft “mock up” bayonets and plastic knives are quite dangerous. The rubber ones do not bend worth a damn since they are made to look cool on the end of someone’s rifle while the plastic knives are just as deadly a stabbing weapon as many bayonets.

 

I have never seen someone actually charge an enemy with a knife or drop their kit down on the ground and sneak up behind an unsuspecting player some 25 ft away from him. That’s not worth the risk and is a waste of a life IMOP. But given a situation where you end up 5 feet behind someone you know with a plastic knife in hand, it’s something to consider if your rules allow it.

 

Never attack someone with the knife! The knife is just replacing your finger, as target practice pointed out. You are just nudging someone’s back with a plastic knife and saying “Knife Kill” instead if touching them on the shoulder and saying “Bang”. For the love of god do not try and slice their throats open or disembowel them...

 

Always respect the rules of the game if you even consider using a knife since some places do not allow combat within 10-5ft or only give a knife/withdraw/safety shot option. Knowing who you knife is also important, since many strangers would rather just get shot rather than deal with the whole legitimacy of a knife kill issue. Lastly, if you do attempt to use your knife, know that the risks are just the same as saying bang or sneaking up closer to any enemy- if you screw up or the player is an *beep* expect to get lit up like a Christmas tree. If that doesn’t sound fun then stick to your AEG. It won’t let you down.

[Wild_XIII]

Although the only knife kill I got was in a pistol game against someone reloading thier pistol, I can imagine that there are really safe players with the rubber/plastic knives and some real idiots. If I were to go for a knife kill it wouldn't be anything fancy, a tap on the shoulder with the blade and say "knifed". Stabbing anyone with anything is a big no no, as said the player that would be knifed might end up kebbabed on the end of someones plastic knife if they turn around too fast or try to run away.

 

I have the hard plastic HFC M9 bayonet, it's rigid enough to cause someone a lot of damage so I mainly have it on my belt for looks or I have it as a melee weapon in pistol games just for looks again.

[Md0ggyd0g]

So guns are fine but watch out for those knives, they're dangerous!

 

Who is going to run at someone with a knife and give them a chance to fire anyway?

I want plastic knives so I can kill people, dammit.

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Good point, but it's just different...why when we're more likely to die on the trip to the airport do people worry about the saftey of the plane trip over the car ride?

 

But it's just that if a guys throwing something at you (or in this case shooting) it seems like less of an imediate threat than someone of the corner of your eye running at you with a club/knife looking thing.

[Stealthbomber]

I have the hard plastic HFC M9 bayonet, it's rigid enough to cause someone a lot of damage so I mainly have it on my belt for looks or I have it as a melee weapon in pistol games just for looks again.

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I have the rubber HFC bayonet and it's still hard enough to hurt a lot if you tried to make like you were going to stick it in somebody.

 

You'd be better off with the sort of foam-rubber weapons that LARPers use. They are truly floaty-light foam with a thin skin of latex over the top. Cos they have a large surface area it's impossible to really apply a lot of force, even if you swing one as hard as you can.

Course, no delta wants to be seen with a captain-caveman club.

 

I'll be honest, If I came through a doorway and somebody tapped me on the back with a dagger and whispered "knife kill" then I'd probably laugh and buy them a beer afterwards.

If, OTOH, I heard a shout and turned around to see somebody charging me with a bayonet fixed or wielding a dagger then I think they'd probably end up with a face full of BBs even if they got the kill before I fired.

 

Maybe that's hypocritical or something but I just think airsoft is a pretty intense, high-octane, hobby and the last thing you need is people doing stuff that you don't expect.

Years ago you used to have stuff like people climbing up on roofs and jumping out of trees. That was all stopped because the results were too unpredictable and I think the same thing applies to knife kills, TBH.

 

Incidentally, maybe that'd be the way to "police" knife kills?

Allow a person to lie in wait with a knife but they're not allowed to take more than a step in any direction.

That way you could do sneaky stuff like hiding behind doors but you couldn't run around like a loon.

[Kov]

Well yes, but that gets rid of the whole idea of spontaneously getting one. That’s the only reason a carry my rubber knife.

 

As an example, once upon a time I emerged onto a crossroads, looking to the right I found an enemy player that I knew roughly ten feet away from me slowly sneaking away. I took the option of putting my gear down and going for the kill with my knife. Even if I had been passed around like eggnog at Christmas time it is still a statement to the player that did, since someone was given the opportunity to knife you and actually took it.

 

Its almost as humiliating to get into such a situation as to actually get knifed by someone you know and can brag about it later.

 

Did I get him? Yes I did. Did I brag about it? No. But allowing for only stationary knifing almost defeats their purpose IMO and experience.

[Stealthbomber]

But allowing for only stationary knifing almost defeats their purpose IMO and experience.

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T'was just a thought, to avoid scenarios where people get attacked by nutters.

 

I am genuinely in 2 minds about it cos, as I say, I think I'd be forced to laugh about it if I was on the giving or receiving end of a knife kill but, also, I can imagine it could be rather intimidating if somebody did it a bit overzealously.

 

On the one hand, I reckon that probably, when playing with regulars, knife kills are just a non-issue. There would simply be no cases where anything daft happened.

OTOH, in big games where very few people know each other, I reckon there's the potential for some idiot with a desire to build up a Rambo reputation might act in a way which intimidates or bullies other players. That kind of thing is dumb but also dangerous.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not fundamentally against the idea. It could be fun. It's just that the pessimist in me says there's a lot of potential for stupid, painful, stuff to happen.

[Kov]

I know I know, its just that I can't have to many people waving their fingers

 

Big games I agree, it’s best not to do it. Most people won’t take them, you will get shot up a lot, and most of the time it’s a waste of an objective. I had a chance to knife someone and go down in the books as the first knife kill on a great 100 man game... but I chose to move onward and take my objective (I was unarmed) instead since the knife kill would have given away my position.

 

I was killed later so I regretted it, but still, objective over l337n3ss

[minimiman]

Hmmmm knife kills!!

 

At my site it's normally a no. Airsoft is a non contact sport and the guy's coming to the site are not signing up to be attacked with anything except a BB. That has more to do with the insurance and standard H&S policy/risk assesment.

 

So I don't believe knife kills have a place in mainstream (if there is such a thing) airsoft. I was actually in a room at my site recently in a night game where somebody leapt into the room and stabbed everybody with his rubber knife, problem was what he used was made of a hard rubber compound and had a hard plastic hilt, so when he cought me with it ( I was unaware he was the enemy) he couldn't see where he thrust it, cought my neck and it actually broke the skin.

 

6 inches higher and it could have taken my eye out, so I wasn't impressed and now everybody at the site is heavily warned against the use of such things. Rubber or plastic bayonets are dangerous.

 

But, and boy it's a big BUT, there is a safe way to get knife kills, use a proper LARP safe weapon. LARP, or live action role play uses all sorts of weapons to safely have mild contact with. You have to be carefull and not follow through with any blows, but fighting with LARP weapons is both safe and fun. We do run games that mix LARP and airsoft, they are great fun and organised in a slightly different manner to a standard skirmish.

 

Larp weapons have a core of fiberglass or similar, they then are covered in closed cell foam and shaped. the outer is then coated in laytex and coloured/decorated. I have all sorts of weapons, knives, axes, swords, as long as it can be made in foam you can use it.

 

If your going to get into full contact in your games, as long as the site allows it then I would suggest you only us LARP weapons and not the plastic or rubber stuff.

[Samm]

I really want to see someone using a dildo.

Getting a 'dildo kill' would be hilarious.

 

Just a mild tap on the shoulder with it, mind.

[Basho]

Knife kills?

 

Short answer: YES!

Long answer: HELL YES!

[raggedyman]

Knife kills?

 

Short answer: YES!

Long answer: HELL YES!

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useful, thanks...

[Rirekon]

I agree with others who've said Airsoft is a non-contact activity. I'm prepared to have people shoot 6mm bbs at me, it's what I signed up for, but I am not prepared to have some idiot "stab" me.

There are zero situations where a "knife kill" is better than a shot to the shin or a "bang/surrender", they all have the same outcome (ie. the other person respawning), but the former has the potential for serious harm.

 

And to those talking about Splinter Cell moves; you put your arm around my neck and I'll put my gun-stock in your crotch. Hard.

[raggedyman]

Larp weapons have a core of fiberglass or similar, they then are covered in closed cell foam and shaped. the outer is then coated in laytex and coloured/decorated. I have all sorts of weapons, knives, axes, swords, as long as it can be made in foam you can use it.

 

If your going to get into full contact in your games, as long as the site allows it then I would suggest you only us LARP weapons and not the plastic or rubber stuff.

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tbh I'd be happier with someone using a sword on me than a knife, as you don't have to get so close with a sword. To do a knife attack you have to get in close, and often move fast. This is where the danger lies, this is where the injuries happen. Sneak attacks are one thing, however if you allow knife attacks you have to accept that people will go for charging attacks with them and that that will result in things going wrong.

 

Basically calling 'knife' from behind is safe unless the person calling it is Banshee from the X-Men, where as using a knife (whatever its made of) can go wrong very easily.

 

Also LARP weapons are not 100% safe. If you stab with them they can cause injury, I've seen someone taken to hospital after the fiberglass core was shoved about an inch into them (through the foam covering) because the person using it didn't know not to poke.

 

I do accept that this removes the possibility of Samm's dildo attack, for which I can only apologies ;-p

[Basho]

Ok ok, non glib answer then.

 

Knife kills are excellent. In Electro, space if often at a premium. Knife kills are a valid and fun way of getting kudos points. Often they are suicide runs, but some people (sittupking) are excellent at them.

 

As for injuries, well we are all in full face and the knives are rubber... so it is very unlikely.

 

The only problem we could have (it hasn't happened yet) is two people who both have knives could end up dueling and then someone might get hurt. I have visions of some of the (highly trained) hand to hand fighters duking it out on the ground floor...

 

...actually that sounds like fun, ANDY! Knife fight comp, one on one!

 

As a marshal, I watch contact very carefully and as yet haven't had to tell someone off.

 

We even allow knife throw kills - very cool. One time a guy brought retractable arm mounted predator claws!

[Stealthbomber]

...somebody leapt into the room and stabbed everybody with his rubber knife, problem was what he used was made of a hard rubber compound and had a hard plastic hilt, so when he cought me with it ( I was unaware he was the enemy)

Another good point there...

Irrespective of if it's a knife kill or not, that kind of behaviour is just underhanded.

 

Unless the teams are clearly identified with different cammo, armbands or something then wandering aimlessly into a room and then attacking the others in there is pretty low in my opinion.

[White_Rabbit]

I really want to see someone using a dildo.

Getting a 'dildo kill' would be hilarious.

 

Just a mild tap on the shoulder with it, mind.

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lol hell Im going to try that at the end of the month at my local site

[Wild_XIII]

I wouldn't ever actually poke someone with a plastic knife as that's the easiest way to hurt someone, I think that by tapping someone with the side of the blade would be the best way and would most likely avoid injury. I agree that airsoft is a no contact sport so naturally we don't want anyone diving at someone with a knife, be it plastic or rubber. I'd only use my bayonet if the oppurtunity arose for instance if someone just walked past me not knowing I was there, all the other times I would bang kill them.

[Rirekon]

As for injuries, well we are all in full face and the knives are rubber... so it is very unlikely.

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Face masks are designed to withstand 1J 6mm BBs, not 20mm object at several J. If you're aiming for the face with a "knife" you're an idiot and should be kept away from airsoft altogether.

Also rubber has little rigidity (ie. it bends) however it doesn't compress very well. This means used with a slashing motion the "blade" will flex and lessen the impact, however a stabbing motion will not compress much and will do very little to lessen the impact. You stab someone in the stomach, kidney area, or neck (places there's very little padding if any) you *will* cause harm which has the potential to be very serious.

[raggedyman]

Ok ok, non glib answer then.

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ta, and sorry if I sounded harsh :-)

 

As for injuries, well we are all in full face and the knives are rubber... so it is very unlikely.

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I was in full face mask and was attacked with a rubber knife, however this didn't help with the fact the person doing the attack put their knee in my back whilst I was on the deck.

 

The knife's aren't the only problem (although its actually very easy to injury someone with a rubber knife if you know what your doing, or don't as the case may be), its the movement into position for attack and the rest of attack that are the problem. Take into account the size of the average training knife and there's only about 4 inches of rubber between a knife attack and hitting someone with a closed fist.

 

Still if it works for your site and everyone knows what their doing then that's cool, not my bag but then its your day not mine.

[minimiman]

We even allow knife throw kills - very cool. One time a guy brought retractable arm mounted predator claws!

 

I don't mean to sound prudish here, but does your insurance cover you for said acts? I know mine doesn't. If I pay extra I can use LARP weapons that have been inspected before use.

 

A LARP knife being thrown at you is one thing, being hit in the side of the head with the hard solid plastic hilt of a rubber knife is totally different. the first can be extremely funny, the second.....well.

 

As with many hings, it's how and with what it's done, knife kills are tremendously satisfying and may even be better than a pistol kill, but some follk I know shouldn't be allowed to own a rubber knife, let alone wield it at somebody.