Airsoft knife kills?

[Ghost_Rider]

Gotta say, if anybody grabbed me around the neck and tried to use me as a human shield I'd ask them to let go, then I'd force em to let go.

 

That kind of thing can ruin both people's day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The only place I know that allows that kind of thing is EW, and it's made very clear in the pre-game briefing if the 'semi-contact' rules are being played to give those not up for it a chance to sit that game out. It's only usually one game a night for this reason, but it's rare that anyone sits out.

[Stealthbomber]

The only place I know that allows that kind of thing is EW, and it's made very clear in the pre-game briefing if the 'semi-contact' rules are being played to give those not up for it a chance to sit that game out. It's only usually one game a night for this reason, but it's rare that anyone sits out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was actually going to edit my post to say "unless the scenario requires it".

 

TBH, though, it's kind of the same thing as with carrying knives during games. I have every confidence that nobody would deliberately abuse that kind of thing but it only takes for somebody to trip over at the wrong moment or do something unpredictable and you're looking at a serious injury.

 

Must admit, I'm not too thrilled about the gleeful way people talk about humiliating the opposition either. I dunno, It just feels wrong to me. I'd congratulate somebody for getting a knife kill but I should hope they'd have the decency NOT to rub my face in it.

[Ghost_Rider]

Must admit, I'm not too thrilled about the gleeful way people talk about humiliating the opposition either. I dunno, It just feels wrong to me. I'd congratulate somebody for getting a knife kill but I should hope they'd have the decency NOT to rub my face in it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tbh, I've not ever encountered a game where anyone feels *humiliated* in the sense that they're genuinely upset.

 

Often, it's my victim coming up to me going "when you creapt up behind me and tapped me with the Mk23's Silencer?? How the hell are were you so quiet, ya ######!"

[Kov]

I tried to put emphasis on that part... I mean common, you are knifing people simply because it’s a more challenging method of getting someone from behind. Inadvertently people are more upset about it.

 

I hope I clarified that you don’t rub a knife kill or any kill for that matter in someone’s face, but you have to accept that it is a bit more humiliating to get your butt handed to you by a person with a knife rather than someone with an AEG. I stress that the word humiliate is not literal… just imagine if you get knife killed… you feel respect for the person that did it but you are disappointed that you let your guard down for it to happen. I suppose disappoint is a better word than humiliate then…

[Stealthbomber]

Yep. Kov, you seem to have a good attitude about it and I genuinely would enjoy a game where there was a reason for knife kills. Maybe some kind of rescue game?

 

I really don't think that there would be any issues in a game full of regulars who know each other.

 

Maybe it's cos I'm an old scrote but I can just see a big potential for injury with every knife kill.

The main thing that worries me is that, as I said above, people might accidentally do things that cause injury.

Like, if you're sneaking up behind me for a knife kill while I'm watching somebody run around the side of the building I'm in. I decide to cover the opposite exit, spin around and... smash you in the side of the head with my M4, maybe break your nose and possibly take a few of your teeth out.

 

On the one hand, I can see myself laughing about knife kills with a few mates over a beer in the pub after a game. On the other hand, I can see (worst case scenario) some maniac making a total c**t of themselves by bullying people during a skirmish in order to score knife kills.

Unfortunately, I can't really see any way to control it either.

 

Regarding GRs post, above, if I've paid the same as everybody else to take part in a skirmish then I don't see why I should sit out a "contact" game.

I gotta say, knowing that Electroworks might allow that sort of game is enough to make be think twice about attending. I certainly wouldn't want to grapple with another player and I wouldn't want it done to me. I would have thought most sites would simply not run those sorts of games unless all the players agreed to them, rather than making people sit games out.

[Ghost_Rider]

Regarding GRs post, above, if I've paid the same as everybody else to take part in a skirmish then I don't see why I should sit out a "contact" game.

I gotta say, knowing that Electroworks might allow that sort of game is enough to make be think twice about attending. I certainly wouldn't want to grapple with another player and I wouldn't want it done to me. I would have thought most sites would simply not run those sorts of games unless all the players agreed to them, rather than making people sit games out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

On that front, I can't really comment. I may in fact be wrong, and if someone speaks up about having a problem then it goes back to 'tap kills' only.

 

As I said, I cannot remember a time when I've been at a game and anyone said they have a problem, so I guess the marshalls and organisers think that the rules are popular. They were introduced after extensive trialling AFAIK, and the use of LARP weaponry and "semi-contact" has seemingly proved very popular, and despite having been pushed to the deck a few times, it's mainly been becuase I'm volunteering to be 'hidden criminal' and I've just tried to bean somone over the head with a 'plank' - a 2 by 4 of polystyrene.

 

It's something you do have to experience while you're there to understand that it really does work, and it's never actually been a problem with anyone overstepping the boundaries of safe play. There's no puches thrown, no flying takedowns, and generally the only people on the wrong end of full contact are the marshalls, playing scenario roles - anything force on force is limited to taps to the center of mass.

 

For example - Riot shields are often used at EW as game balancers if one team is getting humped. If someone slaps the center of the shield, the guy holding it is 'dead'.

 

Equally, there is no 'bang' or 'surrender' at EW. However, the nature of the site means it's very easy to get snuck up on, and there's lots of crannies to hide in. Rather than point blank shoot people, a 'tap' to the center of mass with either an open hand or a rubber blade (stabbing is generally frowned upon) is considered a more sporting 'kill'.

 

Regardless, all I can say is that it works, and many players seem to enjoy it. We're all insured to cover it, so where's the issue?

[Basho]

Electrowerkz is a crazy sort of place.

 

Pick your night, "Endurance night" is well published in advance. If you want something a little more tactical then come to "old school" night. Many of the regular marshals only play "old school" night.

 

I guess it is horses for courses, but Electro is very similar to playing Quake Deathmatch sometimes.

 

Winning in such an environment is one hell of a positive rush. Like what I said about domination and humiliation or no, that is what the top players do there day in and out.

 

When Marshaling I stay aware of the balance of the game. When playing, I try my best to upset that balance. There is a moment when the opposition... fades. This moment is often felt, rather than seen. It is when the opposition are tired, have slowed up, are out of ammo perhaps... Then you will hear the call for "tears of the sun" - full court press. All stand up and fire full auto while walking forwards. The fact that this tactic works, and looks so stunning, can only be psychological.

 

Thus it is with knife kills. We allow them because they make the player feel on top of the world while at the same time pressing a psychological advantage home on the opposition.

 

That makes for great games and great stories to tell in the safezone.

[Dizzy]

Gotta say, if anybody grabbed me around the neck and tried to use me as a human shield I'd ask them to let go, then I'd force em to let go.

 

That kind of thing can ruin both people's day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmm, fair point. The game had already been specified as being semi-contact, so I thought it would be alright. If the guy had complained I'd have apoligised and called myself out. But since (as far as I can remember) he was a regular who seemed like a cheerful guy; it added something to a game where their team was trying to take US hostage!

[target_practice]

but what about the reveiw in AI

the writers were asked..what are your pet hates.

they ALL pointed out that theyve met a lot of people not honouring the hits theyd taken.......and in the spawn pit throwing out the dummy.

i think weve all seen this.

COMMON SENSE....................sorry.......but its not as common as everyone thinks.

 

i like everybodys take though on here.......................a lot of people coming forwards and admitting they were "killed with a knife" and laughing and joking about it.

 

not so sure about basho though ;-) likes to imtimidate and scare the *beep* out of people and totally dominate them ( i know women like that) and humiliate them.......................

 

i think to sum it all up.......everybody agrees that knife kills ( or bang rule) are a part of airsoft as much as the aeg's.....just less seen.

and different sites have different rules which hopefully they all make them clear.

i think the only thing i would like to see enforced is NO PLASTIC OR HARD RUBBER knives ( or metal......doh!).

i think most people would agree with this??

[sanity4sale]

Knife kills in airsoft?

Could someone explain how that works?

[donthedragon]

Knife kills in airsoft?

Could someone explain how that works?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

easy. walk up to intended victim. tap on shoulder with knife. obviously skill comes into it.....you at LEAST have to be a budding solid snake to try it.

[Khhaannh]

KINFING OMG THE KING OF KNIFING is not me ahhahhah we had a player that played with us his name is Ghandi belive me thats his real name and he is and IDIOT but funny he would run around with no shirt on and A STICK nothing else no gun no nothing thats because he couldn't afford a gun lol but yes he is the only real knifer that ever played with us he now lives in india lol OWNED. knife is anything close in airsoft ether tapping or slapping them with a stick or actually gettting a rubber knife and hitting them with it.

 

I should have knifed someone once gahh i was soo mad i didn't ok here is the story. We were playing on this big field and we had the teams separated upper classmen in high school vs lower classmen right? and of course the upper class men was out numbered but we were better. I got lucky and one of the lower classmen thought iw as on there team and waved to me so i waved back knowing they weren't on my team so i advance towards them and pointing the gun to my teamates to make them think i was on there team and as i got closer (oh man wasn't i thinking) (oh and by the way i was using a g18c) and i decided to point the gun at him and try to shoot BUT NOTHING CAME OUT! i could have just walked up to him and tapped him and said ur OUT BUT I HAD TO SHOOT! gahhh then i realized the selector switch was in the middle so basickly it was on saftey i was soo mad and i had to run for my life cuz he had an automatic rifle and i had only a pistol. The game turned out to be a 2 hour game and we ended up loosing but i got to get him later WITH MY PRO SkILLZ ahahh jk but i got him though. Yup! sometimes its better to knife.

[donthedragon]

Thanks for your story of infinite wisdom about ghandi and the struggle of supremacy between classes....

 

Tbh though, this can be looked at in a couple of different ways.

 

For example, it is very satisfying to get s silent bang kill or knife kill, but sometimes can be frustrating to the victim, however, im sure everyone at sometime has been frustrated equally when they have had a bad day and received nothing but 6MM hell all day long without a single kill themselves, right?

 

Secondly, the majority of people that play airsoft (i imagine), dont want to be taken hostage themselves, but given the opportunity would love to do it to someone else, which boils down to good sportsmanship and accepting defeat...something everybody finds difficult once in a while. However, being grabbed from behind by a total stranger is an alien feeling for most, so I dont think it should be encouraged unless a.) it is CLEARLY stated in the briefing and everybody agrees with it, or b.) the site in which it is taking place is relatively close and enjoys playing with everyone at the site.

 

However, although I can understand why people say thing like ''I dont want a knife shoved in my throat...'' etc, how many people would want a Desert Eagle or an AK-47 shoved into the back of their heads?, the fact is, although these may not be real weapons as such, they should still be treated with respect and common sense to always keep airsofting enjoyable and fresh.

[sanity4sale]

Well, why 'knife' when you may as well shout surrender?

[Kov]

Some people don’t take surrenders. Sometimes it’s a friend and you want to have some fun with him and laugh about it later... there are lots of reasons. There are some great posts here so just read through them and you will find the wisdom that you seek.

 

I thought I would post a picture of my knife (funny how this has become a knife etiquette, knife picture, and knife tactics thread. Totally sticky material ). This is the only knife I have found to be safe to use during games. Unfortunately the picture just does not give the rubber the justice it deserves… if you could imagine rolling up the tar from cracks in the freeway and molding it into a knife… that’s about the right texture and strength.

 

Knife!

[Death By Cadbury]

just to toss in my two lincolns, every game Ive ever played at in the US has followed the "tap kill" rule, so you could just as effectively tap someone with the muzzle of your hicapa (or P90 or AK or anything else) as with a rubber knife, because either way youre only tapping them. None of this shoving-knives-in-peoples-throats. I think its the safest way to handle these situations.

 

do I carry one? Yes. have I used it? Many times. I just dont think it needs to be used for anything more than a touch, indicating to that player that theyre dead. Just to be safe, I often whisper to the victim that dead men dont speak and that alerting their teammates would be bad form.

 

Basically what it comes down to is that airsoft is adrenaline-soaked as it is, allowing people to make physical contact only makes confrontations and other unfun things of that nature more likely.

[donthedragon]

i agree, catch two nervous airsofters with more hormones running through them than a teenage boy at the playboy mansion, and you are sure to have yourself a different experience.

[Stealthbomber]

KINFING OMG THE KING OF KNIFING is not me ahhahhah we had a player that played with us his name is Ghandi belive me thats his real name and he is and IDIOT but funny he would run around with no shirt on and A STICK nothing else no gun no nothing thats because he couldn't afford a gun lol but yes he is the only real knifer that ever played with us he now lives in india lol OWNED. knife is anything close in airsoft ether tapping or slapping them with a stick or actually gettting a rubber knife and hitting them with it.

 

I should have knifed someone once gahh i was soo mad i didn't ok here is the story. We were playing on this big field and we had the teams separated upper classmen in high school vs lower classmen right? and of course the upper class men was out numbered but we were better. I got lucky and one of the lower classmen thought iw as on there team and waved to me so i waved back knowing they weren't on my team so i advance towards them and pointing the gun to my teamates to make them think i was on there team and as i got closer (oh man wasn't i thinking) (oh and by the way i was using a g18c) and i decided to point the gun at him and try to shoot BUT NOTHING CAME OUT! i could have just walked up to him and tapped him and said ur OUT BUT I HAD TO SHOOT! gahhh then i realized the selector switch was in the middle so basickly it was on saftey i was soo mad and i had to run for my life cuz he had an automatic rifle and i had only a pistol. The game turned out to be a 2 hour game and we ended up loosing but i got to get him later WITH MY PRO SkILLZ ahahh jk but i got him though. Yup! sometimes its better to knife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No more orange juice for you!

[Hardcore_Mitsuko]

KINFING OMG THE KING OF KNIFING is not me ahhahhah we had a player that played with us his name is Ghandi belive me thats his real name and he is and IDIOT but funny he would run around with no shirt on and A STICK nothing else no gun no nothing thats because he couldn't afford a gun lol but yes he is the only real knifer that ever played with us he now lives in india lol OWNED. knife is anything close in airsoft ether tapping or slapping them with a stick or actually gettting a rubber knife and hitting them with it.

 

I should have knifed someone once gahh i was soo mad i didn't ok here is the story. We were playing on this big field and we had the teams separated upper classmen in high school vs lower classmen right? and of course the upper class men was out numbered but we were better. I got lucky and one of the lower classmen thought iw as on there team and waved to me so i waved back knowing they weren't on my team so i advance towards them and pointing the gun to my teamates to make them think i was on there team and as i got closer (oh man wasn't i thinking) (oh and by the way i was using a g18c) and i decided to point the gun at him and try to shoot BUT NOTHING CAME OUT! i could have just walked up to him and tapped him and said ur OUT BUT I HAD TO SHOOT! gahhh then i realized the selector switch was in the middle so basickly it was on saftey i was soo mad and i had to run for my life cuz he had an automatic rifle and i had only a pistol. The game turned out to be a 2 hour game and we ended up loosing but i got to get him later WITH MY PRO SkILLZ ahahh jk but i got him though. Yup! sometimes its better to knife.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Calm. Down.

[cazboab]

i think the only thing i would like to see enforced is NO PLASTIC OR HARD RUBBER  knives ( or metal......doh!).

i think most people would agree with this??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most folk who've seen the group of us at Section 8 playing with the different types of knife would I expect. We were able to get the newer HFC hard rubber and plastic bayonets to stick up to a quarter of the blade into trees, by throwing them from 10 feet.

The soft ones however might as well be made of liquorice.

[Pyromaster]

Hehe, I'll have to try that when my plastic knife gets here

[mr_pyro]

One of my team mates seems to have the ability to just appear behind someone and he prides himself on getting knife kills!

 

On one of our games we were holding a fort and we were getting battered big time possibly another 4 mins and we would of lost it but my mate just drops his kit takes a pistol and buggs out and were all shouting at him to get his *albatross* back and fight but he runs off! 2 mins left behind the enemy line all you can see is this figure sliver along the floor in between the trees then wham he just pops and just pocks the person in the back with his finger to signify a stab if you wish. But then seeing him running around geting these knife kills and everyone is gob smacked by whats going on as he`s taking on this team. most of the people we play with make it look good as some of them were holding there throats and gargling and some were crawling holding the area hit! it looks good and makes the game play even more intense. knife kills are the best if you can sneak up to someone and get the kill by that means you have bragging rights.

 

When people say you could just ask them to surrender rather than going up to them and getting the knife kill! but on our site alot of players if your even a foot away and holding a gun to them they will try something, You get the odd one who understand and take it rather than being hosed if they move!

 

And our team have got cheapo rubber training knifes off ebay to get the look know instead of ther finger stab

[powelly]

I carry a old martial arts ruber knife around skirmishing with me but i've yet to successfully use it

[Private Murphy]

I've tapped a sniper out, never knife killed though.

 

It was late friday evening, dark, i was stumbling around in an area i didnt know, and allmost fell over this guy, i had no sidearm, so it was a FAMAS in the back, or a tap, i went with a tap. He was pointing into the main grassy area, where the rest of my team were, and i WOULD have been if i hadnt decided to rambo it throught the bushes and get a bit lost.

 

If someone came at me with a plastic knife, i might smack em thinking they were going to attack me, go with "surrender" or tap them in my opinion.

[Janno]

Maybe it's cos I'm an old scrote but I can just see a big potential for injury with every knife kill.

The main thing that worries me is that, as I said above, people might accidentally do things that cause injury.

 

......

 

Regarding GRs post, above, if I've paid the same as everybody else to take part in a skirmish then I don't see why I should sit out a "contact" game.

I gotta say, knowing that Electroworks might allow that sort of game is enough to make be think twice about attending. I certainly wouldn't want to grapple with another player and I wouldn't want it done to me. I would have thought most sites would simply not run those sorts of games unless all the players agreed to them, rather than making people sit games out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Those are some excellent and valid points, and i'd like to address them:

 

Knife kills and injuries

None of our players have been injured in a knife-kill/full-contact scenario. In fact, we have found, over the past year, that playing with a default semi-contact (ie. "tag") rule has led to less arguments/misunderstandings than when we allowed the bang/surrender rule. There is no dispute over the strictly controlled physical contact, and it is also made clear that a single/double tap into the centre mass of your opponent is another perfectly acceptable way of making a close-range kill.

 

Personally, i prefer the double-tap to the chest method, as that way, i can still effectively cap my target without having to let them out of my weapon-sights. No matter how close they are. Others find that the "tag" rule allows them to attack targets around corners or at close range in a quiet, funny, humiliating, and most of all pain/guilt free way.

 

Full contact games and exclusion

Full contact games (ie. takedowns, restraints, etc...) can be played by anyone, whatever their preference. However, these are VERY heavily marshalled, and the people doing/receiving the full-contact aspect of the scenario are very carefully briefed, and often have experience in contact sports, or professions where this kind of physical contact is commonplace. It is much like roleplay - just because you play football, doesn't mean you have to be a good with your hands - you would leave that up to the goalkeeper. Also, full contact games are only played if there is demand from the crowd. If not, then a full contact scenario is not played. We are very flexible with our itineraries In short, if you don't like full contact, yet you end up playing one of these scenarios, then you would play it just like a normal airsoft game, but rather than getting stuck in with all the physical stuff, you would say, provide cover to arresting officers (rather than detaining a suspect yourself), or keep a hostage in your weapon-sights (rather than use one as a shield). Like i said, we are flexible

 

Misconception & setting the record straight

I often hear talk of how "hardcore" or how "brutal" Elektrowerks is, and how some would never ever want to play there. Whilst it is fine coming up with theories as to why Elektrowerks is far too dangerous/hardcore/excessive, i'm the kind of person that would much rather experience it for a while (say, a month's worth of skirmishes) before making my mind over what kind of site it is. Also, Elektrowerks is an over-18s site, and - much to the amazement of some of our punters who previously have played at other sites - we treat all our guests as ADULTS. This means that the sport played here is competitive, aggressive, and full of bad language, and that those that partake are expected to deal with these psychological pressures in an adult way, with a mature understanding of what it is to do so. If they can't, there are plenty of dedicated staff (i don't believe in employing player-marshals at my site, only full-fat, fully equipped marshals) who will guide them in reaching this understanding. I also believe that there are certain aspects of a competitive contact sport that must be encouraged, and, if properly regulated, will benefit the mindset and the gaming experience of both group and individual. Perhaps it is this leap from once-a-month-hobby to balls-out-contact-sport that is such a disorientating/disconcerting/intimidating concept for some. In reference to the topic, this attitude goes hand-in-hand with the validity of knife-kills in airsoft - indeed, it can be said that for this particular style of airsoft, knife-kills are a requirement if one is to get the most out of it.

 

My conclusion

I myself find it entertaining the way our fearsome reputation is perpetuated by so many who haven't visited us. Many of those themselves far too young to meet the age criteria! I also find it entertaining the amount of criticism we take online from people who have never attended, yet we consistently get a good number of people at every single event. In fact, some airsofters have even mentioned that Elektrowerks was like some kind of rite of passage. I'm chuffed!

 

That said, this is not a dig at you, nor anyone else that has their reservations about the site - indeed, many of our most committed players had their reservations before coming. Rather, this is an invitation - to come and observe, if not play, and make a decision for yourself based on your experience at the site. Hell, you might even become a convert too - knife kills and all!

 

Regards,

 

Andrew Janson

Firefight London