The Complete APS 2/96 Thread

[lewis hiscock]

hmm descisions , cheers for the info BoredKender i see what you mean.

I think i will go with the maruzen because i think it will feel more like the RS rifle

and will give me more peice of mind lol.

 

how much will a tightbore and 350fps spring set me back?

[docs90]

Looking for a little help please guys , i have a standerd length L96 (maruzen ) with the muzzle break on the end , i have been looking at the ok 495 mm silencer for it but i have to ask does it cover a lot of the outer barrel back towards the stock ?

 

 

Again any help guys ?

 

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...il?prodID=22650 this is what im trying to achieve

[BoredKender]

the stock spring shoots about 350 fps on the maruzen lewis

 

as for the tightbore, you either have to order a specialized one for the l96, OR for the same price, order a PDI hopup chamber and use any AEG tightbore (i highly recommend the latter)

[Stealthbomber]

according to whom? last i checked, all the clones of the L96 were the same, just with different badges.

The BE gun shoots at 350fps rather than the 500fps of the Well/Warrior gun. It has a crimped cylinder and is made from lower quality materials, including plastic internal parts.

The retailers are aware of this and sell the BE L96 for half the price of the Well/Warrior gun.

 

Personally, I found the stock of the Maruzen L96 to be of similar quality to my Warrior L96. I was given the Maruzen gun to cut out a hole in the stock and fit a fake mag so I got plenty of opportunity to examine the thickness of the plastic etc.

 

The one thing that DID puzzle me was what made Well decide to chuck metal weights inside the stock.

The Maruzen stock was lighter than the Well stock and, given the weight of the finished gun, anybody with any sense would remove the weights as soon as possible. I know I did.

 

I reckon the cast metal parts of the guns were very similar. The barrel one the Maruzen gun was better finished.

The Well barrel looks as though has just blued a bit of steel tubing whereas the maruzen barrel looks as if it's been prepared better before painting.

 

Unfortunately, I can't comment on the main thing I wanted to: The trigger.

The Well trigger housing is the guns weak point. Even if you don't abuse it the tabs that attach it to the receiver WILL break eventually.

I wanted to see what the trigger housing on the Maruzen gun was like but, uhhh, the owner had replaced it with a zero trigger because his original one had broken.

 

I would admit that the chinese guns internal parts certainly aren't as pretty as the Maruzens.

Thing is, given the way people say that there's no point in buying Systema AEG internals when Element ones are just as strong, surely it's a bit hypocritical to think any different about the Well rifle?

Yes, the internals DO look a bit rough but the gun is shooting at 500fps using them so they can't be that bad.

Besides, I imagine the trigger and piston will be top of your list of upgrades regardless of whether you buy the Maruzen or Well gun.

 

Lastly (as most importantly) the hop-up.

The APS2 hop-up is rather old-fashioned and is kinda fiddly to work on.

If the Well hop-up isn't good quality then the gun really wouldn't be worth buying.

It's identical to the Maruzen one. It's made the same way, apparently out of identical materials.

On the subject of hop-ups, the PDI hop-up is a common upgrade but, IMO, it isn't very well built and if doesn't hold the barrel very securely. Don't bother with it.

 

My own advice would be DO NOT buy a Maruzen gun on the assumption that it will be generally higher quality. It won't.

If you are going to leave the gun in original condition and the thought of a less-than-perfect finish on some components worries you then buy the Maruzen.

If you're planning on wrapping the gun in cammo, painting it or applying cammo tape then buy the WELL gun.

I don't mean to imply that the Maruzen gun is perfect and the Well gun is a pigs ear. Neither is true. The Maruzen gun just has a bit better paint job. It's like looking at the difference in finish on a Ford and on an Aston Martin. There's nothing really wrong with the Ford but Aston can remind people that their car has 24 coats of paint etc.

 

 

[BoredKender]

the issue with that statement is that you can read on almost every forum how utg/well users have had their hoputs ###### out on them after only a few months

[Sniperwoosh]

I've put 5k rnds through my utg mk96. It's stock, but modified to 530fps with some durability and accuracy mods also. Notice: STOCK TRIGGER.

 

Amen stealthbomber. The pdi hu isn't that great. All you need, maruzen or clone, is a hard bucking and you're set.

 

And I also agree with stealthbomber about the fact that most snipers upgrade their guns comepletly anyway. And then they try and say that their maruzen is way better than a clone... well nah duh you morons, you just droped like $500 in it! Drop the same cash in a clone and what do you get? Same performance. Its just not common to upgade a clone much.

 

LOL, I've been waiting for this to come up so I could make those 2 points!

[Stealthbomber]

the issue with that statement is that you can read on almost every forum how utg/well users have had their hoputs ###### out on them after only a few months

"Hop up"

You mean the entire unit or the sleeve/bucking?

 

Link please?

[bjorn]

Mine sleeve went FUBAR after only about 200 shots fired because the H hop they tried to create just tore through the sleeve like butter.

 

 

The strange thing is that I think there are NONE after market hopup sleeves for Type 96? Is it really true?

 

 

The PDI as I have heard is rather BS. I guess now I do not have any other choise but to just order that one.

 

 

Bjorn

[Stealthbomber]

Bear in mind that any problems with the APS2 style hop-up apply equally to the Maruzen gun as they do to the clone guns.

 

Personally, I have removed the "H" part of my hop-up arm and, instead, have filed a semicircular groove across it so that a normal AEG bucking can fit under there. Or a H-bucking, if you prefer. Seems to work a treat at the moment.

 

Mine sleeve went FUBAR after only about 200 shots fired because the H hop they tried to create just tore through the sleeve like butter.

 

 

The strange thing is that I think there are NONE after market hopup sleeves for Type 96? Is it really true?

 

 

The PDI as I have heard is rather BS. I guess now I do not have any other choise but to just order that one.

 

 

Bjorn

I can't see any APS2/Type 96 buckings anywhere.

I have fitted an AEG bucking into an L96.

Basically, I carefully turned it inside out and then trimmed away the raised key that runs along it.

Turn it the right way around again then trim it so it's the same length as the L96 hop-up and you can fit it.

Because there's no key to align it you WILL have to take care to align it yourself and you WILL need to seal it in place using silicone sealer.

With that done it works perfectly though.

 

Also, be aware that you do NOT need the PDI hop up if you want to use an AEG barrel and hop sleeve.

All you need to do is buy the barrel and then send it to an engineering shop and have one small groove cut in it (roughly an inch from the back) so that the C-clip that holds the L96 barrel in place can also hold the AEG barrel in.

Obviously, you'll need to remove the original barrel and send both barrels together so they can cut the groove in the exact correct place.

 

FWIW, I've also binned that horrid spindly frame that fits inside the hop-up as well. If you tighten the gland nut on the hop-up sufficiently the barrel is held in place and, once it's supported by the barrel spacers, it's absolutely rigid.

 

What you DO need to do, however, is ditch the "parts-book" mentality.

The APS2 system is getting kinda old and you can't expect it to work as well as modern systems.

The only way you get ANY sniper rifle to work optimally is by fine-tuning it yourself and this goes doubly so for the L96.

Be prepared to experiment and don't assume you MUST return it to stock specification every time you replace a part.

[bjorn]

Bear in mind that any problems with the APS2 style hop-up apply equally to the Maruzen gun as they do to the clone guns.

 

Personally, I have removed the "H" part of my hop-up arm and, instead, have filed a semicircular groove across it so that a normal AEG bucking can fit under there. Or a H-bucking, if you prefer. Seems to work a treat at the moment.

 

 

I can't see any APS2/Type 96 buckings anywhere.

I have fitted an AEG bucking into an L96.

Basically, I carefully turned it inside out and then trimmed away the raised key that runs along it.

Turn it the right way around again then trim it so it's the same length as the L96 hop-up and you can fit it.

Because there's no key to align it you WILL have to take care to align it yourself and you WILL need to seal it in place using silicone sealer.

With that done it works perfectly though.

 

Also, be aware that you do NOT need the PDI hop up if you want to use an AEG barrel and hop sleeve.

All you need to do is buy the barrel and then send it to an engineering shop and have one small groove cut in it (roughly an inch from the back) so that the C-clip that holds the L96 barrel in place can also hold the AEG barrel in.

Obviously, you'll need to remove the original barrel and send both barrels together so they can cut the groove in the exact correct place.

 

FWIW, I've also binned that horrid spindly frame that fits inside the hop-up as well. If you tighten the gland nut on the hop-up sufficiently the barrel is held in place and, once it's supported by the barrel spacers, it's absolutely rigid.

 

What you DO need to do, however, is ditch the "parts-book" mentality.

The APS2 system is getting kinda old and you can't expect it to work as well as modern systems.

The only way you get ANY sniper rifle to work optimally is by fine-tuning it yourself and this goes doubly so for the L96.

Be prepared to experiment and don't assume you MUST return it to stock specification every time you replace a part.

 

Wow, some great stuff there. I think I sent you a PM about the AEG hopup sleeve mod before but did not get an answer.

 

I am familiar with the fact that an AEG barrel can be rather easily converted to be in use.

 

I do not yet get how on earth you managed to get an AEG sleeve to work in the original hopup chamber.

 

I compared them and the original hopup bucking had a very long and thick lip where the nozzle entered. I believe you know what I mean. When I tried fitting a standard AEG hopup sleeve I discovered that none of the buckings did not have such a lip. Hence - the nozzle will not make contact and not seal it correctly. Did I miss something or did you mod something else extra prior to the trimming of the elevated key part?

 

I have found something else also: http://www.dentrinityshop.com/pr_details.jsp?pid=9726

 

Is it just me or is that an original Type 96 hopup sleeve in stock? Maybe that will help me out.

 

 

 

In the mean time - I just have to take a tightbore, cut an extra groove for the C-clip, no need a groove for the spindly plastic frame, take an Element Red v-hop sleeve, trim down the elevated key part, silicon it to the barrel and that is it? Are you sure that the nozzle will make an air seal with the AEG hop sleeve?

 

 

Bjorn

[Stealthbomber]

Is it just me or is that an original Type 96 hopup sleeve in stock? Maybe that will help me out.

 

 

 

In the mean time - I just have to take a tightbore, cut an extra groove for the C-clip, no need a groove for the spindly plastic frame, take an Element Red v-hop sleeve, trim down the elevated key part, silicon it to the barrel and that is it? Are you sure that the nozzle will make an air seal with the AEG hop sleeve?

 

 

Bjorn

I know an AEG bucking doesn't look the same but, as I say, I managed to fit one onto an L96 and it seems to be working OK.

After I rebuilt the unit I squeezed the arm down and it was working OK. The gun shot at around 485 FPS so the power was fine too.

Having said that, I've assembled my L96 with no hop-sleeve at all and with the barrel not tightened into the hop-up (just to check it was feeding OK) and it still chronoed at around 470fps IIRC.

 

If DT have a proper L96 hop-up in stock that'd definately be my first choice.

Failing that I'd buy an AEG barrel, get a groove cut into it and use an AEG hop-up sleeve.

 

I don't want to sound like I'm promoting the APS2 hop-up as superb or anything. I know they're old and not that good.

Altering mine to work with an AEG bucking was a useful mod, although it doesn't help with the damaged sleeve.

I'm currently waiting for a mate to finish upgrading his VSR10 and, after he's finished I'll be trying to fit VSR10 parts into my L96.

 

Incidentally, that reminds me... The VSR10 hop-up sleeve looks a lot like the L96 one. I bet it'd be pretty easy to fit a VSR10 sleeve into an L96. Again, it might be necessary to seal it on with silicone but they look almost identical.

[bjorn]

About the VSR sleeve and L96 one - the inner diameter of the VSR sleeve is a lot bigger that one found on the L96.

 

Anyhow I will definetly try a spare Elemet red v-hop this evening on my L96/Mauser pro.

 

 

Bjorn

[bjorn]

Stealthbomber - Can you please tell me weather you took the brass collar out of the hopup unit when you installed AEG style bucking? As it seems the AEG bucking is a lot shorter so that it will not support the collar which leads it to just tangle in there.

 

 

Or did you maybe superglue it into place? I think the only thing it needs t do is support the air nozzle so that it goes exacly into the right place?

 

 

I am waiting for the silicon to settle down, then going to reinstall everything and report back asap!

 

If this think works, a lot of cookies to your SB!

 

Bjorn

[bjorn]

Ok so I tried it in every way possible but I could just not get a decent air seal between the hopup sleeve and the nozzle. The gun started shooting around 100m/s and the hopup was all around the place for a sniper rifle.

 

 

Any other tips or tricks that I can try or should I just throw it in the corner and order the Maruzen hopup sleeve if possible or the PDI hopup unit.

 

Any personal comments on the PDI unit?

 

Bjorn

[lewis hiscock]

ok well stealth ive just ordered my maruzen type 96 after a long decision making period lol.

can anyone tell me what i should look into upgrading first.

 

im having 2 cylinders set up , 1 for Dragon Valley (-350fps) and 1 for other events (-500fps)

what do i need to do internally to support the higher spring tension?

and what kind of tightbore barrels are available?

 

cheers

lew

[bjorn]

ok well stealth ive just ordered my maruzen type 96 after a long decision making period lol.

can anyone tell me what i should look into upgrading first.

 

im having 2 cylinders set up , 1 for Dragon Valley (-350fps) and 1 for other events (-500fps)

what do i need to do internally to support the higher spring tension?

and what kind of tightbore barrels are available?

 

cheers

lew

 

For dragon valley just keep the original cylinder.

The other one should be e.g. PDI level 3 cylinder set with the required spring.

For trigger mech - either FF zero trigger, or the cheaper counterpart- the King Arms Lightqeight trigger if you can find it in stock.

For barrel - probably the KM Heat will be your best find. I have not seen any OK barrels in stock at all lately.

 

 

 

Bjorn

 

[lewis hiscock]

thanks bjorn

 

lets say im using the 350fps cylinder

and .29 ammo

how much range will i lose and how much accuracy will i gain over .2?

[bjorn]

I would not use a 0.2g bb in a sniper rifle that would be shooting even 300 fps.

 

Although I do believe that the 0.29 is a bit much. I would suggest to use high quality 0.25g for normal conditions and 0.28g for windy days.

 

Or if you have some Maruzen SGM-s lying around then use those for the sheer quality!

 

Bjorn

[lewis hiscock]

no what i meant was ,

as someone who has been using AEG's for my entire airsoft career (if thats the right word)

ive only ever used .2 bb's

i know how far a.2 will go at 350 fps

i was wondering the effect i will notice on range and accuracy of the extra weight as a first time user.

 

that said i appreciate the recommendations on ammo you suggested

[Sniperwoosh]

i know how far a.2 will go at 350 fps

i was wondering the effect i will notice on range and accuracy of the extra weight as a first time user.

 

You will gain range over a .25 using a .28-.3 bb and the bbs will get to long ranges faster.

 

Take a look at this:RANGE and TIME comparisons

[lewis hiscock]

wow thats a pretty good analasis cheers

 

so what your saying is that at 350fps with a .3g bb .hop ect i will have an effective range of 100feet

and that even though the round is slower leaving the barrel it retains more energy in flight due to its weight increase.

 

although it raises the question to me

why dont AEG players use heavier ammo aswell? if it has nothing but positive effects on your range and accuracy?

is it purely a cost thing?

[Sniperwoosh]

Most people just see it like this: lighter bbs chrono faster, so they fly faster. Snipers know better though, most of them anyway.

[Swerve]

It is partially a cost thing too.

 

Blatting 0.30's on full auto all day is not suitable for everyones pocket.

 

I've moved over to 0.25's for all my AEG's and pistols, as it is the ideal compromise between cost and effectiveness.

 

For sniping and/or DMR, I'm running 0.3's and 0.36's

[docs90]

When i used to run my L96 at 370 fps i used .3s digicon straights and didnt find the distace these flew any less than say a .25 , its all down to the hop tbh

 

I run ,43s in it now at 500 fps and still get the same distance and maybe more so than my vsr that runs at 488 fps on a .36

 

Hop is king

 

Add to that a .25 is more likly to be deviated by wind a blade of grass ect , and your average softer knows when they have been hit by a heavier bb at the end of its flight than a lighter one

[lewis hiscock]

does anyone know where i can get some biodegradable bb's in heavier weights than .25?

 

my local site only allows biodegradable ammo. and i want to try .28/.3's but so far have only found

.25's in biodegradable form